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Helix Native

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btw, for what it's worth... I have heard a rumor that the guy in Cincinnati who is testing Helix Native was unable to get the latest build to crash or glitch today...

 

...but don't quote me on that...

 

...for anyone who is anticipating and trying to figure out how they are going to use Helix Native, though... here's a tip, maybe the #1 tip you need.

 

imho... the best way to run this is to record through Helix if you have one because the input circuitry is so darned good.

 

DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO NORMALIZE YOUR RECORDED GUITAR TRACKS!

 

Your patches respond to the way guitar comes into Helix. Normalize your tracks and your patches will sound wrong.

 

Your tracks will look like they are way way too quiet. They are fine. I promise you. Just leave them alone.

 

That is a super-important tip. I'll put it out there on the fb groups, too...

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btw, for what it's worth... I have heard a rumor that the guy in Cincinnati who is testing Helix Native was unable to get the latest build to crash or glitch today...

 

...but don't quote me on that...

 

...for anyone who is anticipating and trying to figure out how they are going to use Helix Native, though... here's a tip, maybe the #1 tip you need.

 

imho... the best way to run this is to record through Helix if you have one because the input circuitry is so darned good.

 

DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO NORMALIZE YOUR RECORDED GUITAR TRACKS!

 

Your patches respond to the way guitar comes into Helix. Normalize your tracks and your patches will sound wrong.

 

Your tracks will look like they are way way too quiet. They are fine. I promise you. Just leave them alone.

 

That is a super-important tip. I'll put it out there on the fb groups, too...

 

Interesting. So would you think a higher end input device (UA Apollo or the like) would net a similar result as the Helix or do you think the Helix is doing more?

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We're very close. As of yesterday afternoon, all Helix Native 1.0 bugs have been squashed. The QA team is currently performing hardcore regression testing and if they don't find anything egregious, we may have a release candidate very soon.

 

As long as the tuner works in the editor...

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btw, for what it's worth... I have heard a rumor that the guy in Cincinnati who is testing Helix Native was unable to get the latest build to crash or glitch today...

 

...but don't quote me on that...

 

...for anyone who is anticipating and trying to figure out how they are going to use Helix Native, though... here's a tip, maybe the #1 tip you need.

 

...

 

DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO NORMALIZE YOUR RECORDED GUITAR TRACKS!

 

Your patches respond to the way guitar comes into Helix. Normalize your tracks and your patches will sound wrong.

 

HA!! I just quoted you.

 

That is great advice for any AMP sim plug-in.

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woot! can't wait to get this in my daw and start efficiently re-amping and testing custom IR mixes.

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Am looking forward to this!

 

If I buy Native, and in a year or a week or whatever I sell my Helix for whatever reason, what happens to my access to Native? Is it linked to your account or to the account?

 

Thanks.

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Am looking forward to this!

 

If I buy Native, and in a year or a week or whatever I sell my Helix for whatever reason, what happens to my access to Native? Is it linked to your account or to the account?

 

Thanks.

The software license will be independent of the hardware. If you sell your Helix, the person who buys it from you won't be able to get the software for a discount. Also, I believe the software license is going to be non-transferable.

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The software license will be independent of the hardware. If you sell your Helix, the person who buys it from you won't be able to get the software for a discount. Also, I believe the software license is going to be non-transferable.

So as long as I've bought it I'll always get the updates and the same features as the normal priced version, or are you forced to connect it to the unit?

 

Not that I'll get rid of it, but I still wouldn't wanna spend £100 on something that could be useless if I'd ever sell the Helix. If it were I'd rather get the £400 one at the time if I ever did sell it.

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Interesting. So would you think a higher end input device (UA Apollo or the like) would net a similar result as the Helix or do you think the Helix is doing more?

 

 

If you use the same patches in Helix as in Native, you will get the same sound if you use Helix as your input device and don't change the volume level of the recorded dry guitar.

 

If you use a different input device and/or have your raw guitar track at a different level, how would you NOT expect the sound to be quite different.

 

That's all I'm saying.

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If you use the same patches in Helix as in Native, you will get the same sound if you use Helix as your input device and don't change the volume level of the recorded dry guitar.

 

If you use a different input device and/or have your raw guitar track at a different level, how would you NOT expect the sound to be quite different.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

Thanks for sharing the tip. As always you are very helpful. I do see where you are getting at but please confirm: If I record a dry track using my Helix as input device and then run the dry track through Helix native using the exact same patch then the sound should be the exact same. If I normalize or in any other way edit the recorded dry track before running it through helix native then of course it would produce something different even if using the exact same patch. Right?

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So as long as I've bought it I'll always get the updates and the same features as the normal priced version, or are you forced to connect it to the unit?

 

Not that I'll get rid of it, but I still wouldn't wanna spend £100 on something that could be useless if I'd ever sell the Helix. If it were I'd rather get the £400 one at the time if I ever did sell it.

The license will give you access to whatever updates the software receives over its lifetime. There is no hardware dongle required.

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...please confirm: If I record a dry track using my Helix as input device and then run the dry track through Helix native using the exact same patch then the sound should be the exact same. If I normalize or in any other way edit the recorded dry track before running it through helix native then of course it would produce something different even if using the exact same patch. Right?

 

 

You got it. May seem like common sense, but not for people who haven't done a lot of this.

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If you use the same patches in Helix as in Native, you will get the same sound if you use Helix as your input device and don't change the volume level of the recorded dry guitar.

 

If you use a different input device and/or have your raw guitar track at a different level, how would you NOT expect the sound to be quite different.

 

That's all I'm saying.

Ah, Gotcha. 

 

Well, time to build some native only patches so i can record while on work trips!

 

 

 

Any day now...

*Throws $100 at screen*

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Ah, Gotcha. 

 

Well, time to build some native only patches so i can record while on work trips!

 

 

Here's a tip. Skip the FX loops and ignore snapshots for now. Also multiple chain patches (like most of mine) don't help you as an instance of Helix Native only has one input (although it can be stereo I suppose).

 

But... if you find that you need to have two paths at once... just load up another Helix Native Instance. I've had 3 running with no problems.

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Here's a tip. Skip the FX loops and ignore snapshots for now. Also multiple chain patches (like most of mine) don't help you as an instance of Helix Native only has one input (although it can be stereo I suppose).

 

But... if you find that you need to have two paths at once... just load up another Helix Native Instance. I've had 3 running with no problems.

How feasible is using Native with an interface other than Helix for live playing as a backup if my Helix ever goes down? Is the latency from interface input to DAW processing to interface output too high to be able to play live with that setup?

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How feasible is using Native with an interface other than Helix for live playing as a backup if my Helix ever goes down? Is the latency from interface input to DAW processing to interface output too high to be able to play live with that setup?

 

If you are using an ASIO interface it would be mostly a function of your DAW and computer. 

Running Reaper with a non Helix interface on a PC I built in 2010 the latency is barely perceptible and defiantly playable.

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If you are using an ASIO interface it would be mostly a function of your DAW and computer. 

Running Reaper with a non Helix interface on a PC I built in 2010 the latency is barely perceptible and defiantly playable.

Perfect. Yes, ASIO, Intel i7 processor, Windows 10, plenty of RAM, and Reaper. I should be good to go.  Seems like a very good $99 backup plan for my needs. 

 

Thanks for the info.

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Perfect. Yes, ASIO, Intel i7 processor, Windows 10, plenty of RAM, and Reaper. I should be good to go.  Seems like a very good $99 backup plan for my needs. 

 

Thanks for the info.

 

You will not know for sure until you try it. There are too many variables with PC's that you may not be able to rely on specs alone. 

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Has support for the Helix Control and/or FBV3 been announced? I'm making a birthday purchase this weekend for my birthday and I wouldn't mind forgoing an Empress Reverb and picking up a controller for Native instead!

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If you use the same patches in Helix as in Native, you will get the same sound if you use Helix as your input device and don't change the volume level of the recorded dry guitar.

 

If you use a different input device and/or have your raw guitar track at a different level, how would you NOT expect the sound to be quite different.

 

That's all I'm saying.

Didn't think about the importance of the actual input on Helix. I hope using an interface wouldn't make it drastically/unrecognizably different.

 

Theoretically, would matching the input levels remedy the difference?

 

Most of the appeal for me was being able to use Helix without the hardware for recording/writing outdoors or in bed. Though, if it's specifically to craft a tone for the hardware, I wouldn't have a problem recording a dry track from Helix and then creating a patch through Native later. I just hope I wouldn't have to have two drastically different patches for the same tone(s).

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Theoretically, would matching the input levels remedy the difference?

 

 

I suspect you can't match the levels exactly enough, but I don't have another interface to test.

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Has support for the Helix Control and/or FBV3 been announced? I'm making a birthday purchase this weekend for my birthday and I wouldn't mind forgoing an Empress Reverb and picking up a controller for Native instead!

 

 

No, I doubt you'll ever see FBV3 support, but having Control work with Native is only an idea at this point and most certainly won't be the case at launch (if it is even possible... I honestly don't know...)

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Theoretically, would matching the input levels remedy the difference?

 

 

 

Yes it should, but the tricky part is getting it exactly the same. One way to calibrate your interface would be:

 

1. Connect a hardware Helix to the computer by USB

2. Set up an empty (blank) patch in the Helix

3. Connect a cable tester with tone generator to the Guitar In of the Helix

4. Use a DAW to measure the exact level of the test tone (in dBFS) coming into the computer via USB

5. Switch to the other audio interface on the computer

6. Connect the cable tester / tone generator to the other interface

7. Adjust the input gain of the new interface so the test tone exactly matches the level it was from the Helix

 

That should at least get you within 1dB, or closer depending on your DAW's metering.

 

In that case the tone should be extremely similar to the hardware Helix - best case, indistinguishable. The most likely difference I'd expect would be that the other interface's input might be a bit noisier than the Helix, which could become noticeable on high-gain patches, but most modern interfaces are clean enough that it's not usually an issue except in delicate/exposed parts with few or no other instruments playing.

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In that case the tone should be extremely similar to the hardware Helix - best case, indistinguishable. The most likely difference I'd expect would be that the other interface's input might be a bit noisier than the Helix, which could become noticeable on high-gain patches, but most modern interfaces are clean enough that it's not usually an issue except in delicate/exposed parts with few or no other instruments playing.

The lesser expensive audio interfaces you are probably correct in be a bit noisier. The Apollo's, Motu's M64, and Avid's HD model should not be a bit noisy and in fact be quieter. Point is, as with everything you usually get what you pay for, and It's nice to see that the beta testers are liking what they are hearing in Native.

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Quick question: what are the routing/output options for native.

 

For example, say I've recorded a bass DI to a track, and I want to run parallel paths on Path A and Path B, sending one path to my "Bass Grime BUS" and the other to my "Bass Low-Mid BUS", where I've already applied processing.

 

Or, two different guitar amp paths to different busses for EQ-ing.

 

Is this possible? Or will I have to bounce the track down and move it into the appropriate track/bus in my DAW?

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For example, say I've recorded a bass DI to a track, and I want to run parallel paths on Path A and Path B, sending one path to my "Bass Grime BUS" and the other to my "Bass Low-Mid BUS", where I've already applied processing.

 

 

You can easily take one source in and do anything you'd do with that one source in Helix. So, you could record a bass track and then have it go through 2, 3, 4 bass amps in ONE instance of Helix. It's no problem. But Helix Native responds to ONE input and has ONE output... so...

 

Or, two different guitar amp paths to different busses for EQ-ing.

 

...you can easily eq two different amp paths WITHIN HELIX NATIVE but there's only one external EQ available on that track.

 

So, if you wanted to use your DAW's channel EQ, you could simply create two instances of Native, then you could "freeze" them if you need to free up CPU horsepower.

 

Here's what you CAN NOT do... you can't take ONE instance of Helix Native and use two different inputs or send it to two different outputs. So all my fancy two-voice stuff has to be done with two tracks, and two instances of Native.

 

Does that make sense?

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You can easily take one source in and do anything you'd do with that one source in Helix. So, you could record a bass track and then have it go through 2, 3, 4 bass amps in ONE instance of Helix. It's no problem. But Helix Native responds to ONE input and has ONE output... so...

 

 

 

 

...you can easily eq two different amp paths WITHIN HELIX NATIVE but there's only one external EQ available on that track.

 

So, if you wanted to use your DAW's channel EQ, you could simply create two instances of Native, then you could "freeze" them if you need to free up CPU horsepower.

 

Here's what you CAN NOT do... you can't take ONE instance of Helix Native and use two different inputs or send it to two different outputs. So all my fancy two-voice stuff has to be done with two tracks, and two instances of Native.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Yep makes sense.

 

I have a couple of patches on the helix at the moment that I use for reamping, where I'll take a guitar through three paths to USB 3, USB 4 and USB 5, and then blend to taste in my DAW. So it just means that's still probably my best bet instead of having to run 12 instances of Native for my rhythm guitars :)

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Yep makes sense.

 

I have a couple of patches on the helix at the moment that I use for reamping, where I'll take a guitar through three paths to USB 3, USB 4 and USB 5, and then blend to taste in my DAW. So it just means that's still probably my best bet instead of having to run 12 instances of Native for my rhythm guitars :)

 

 

I would think so.

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You can easily take one source in and do anything you'd do with that one source in Helix. So, you could record a bass track and then have it go through 2, 3, 4 bass amps in ONE instance of Helix. It's no problem. But Helix Native responds to ONE input and has ONE output... so...

 

 

 

 

...you can easily eq two different amp paths WITHIN HELIX NATIVE but there's only one external EQ available on that track.

 

So, if you wanted to use your DAW's channel EQ, you could simply create two instances of Native, then you could "freeze" them if you need to free up CPU horsepower.

 

Here's what you CAN NOT do... you can't take ONE instance of Helix Native and use two different inputs or send it to two different outputs. So all my fancy two-voice stuff has to be done with two tracks, and two instances of Native.

 

Does that make sense?

And once it's recorded and tracked you could just turn off Native or will the track be dead? I guess you could bounce it and all your reamps and just turn off Native on those tracks, right?

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And once it's recorded and tracked you could just turn off Native or will the track be dead? I guess you could bounce it and all your reamps and just turn off Native on those tracks, right?

 

 

Well, if you disable Native, you have just the raw guitar sound. Probably not useful.

 

What you CAN do, if you want... is take a hybrid approach. Record using the patch in Helix, and then record a mono dry track at the same time. You can use that mono dry track to "re-amp", but you won't have to have Helix even turned on to do it, just fire up Native.

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Well, if you disable Native, you have just the raw guitar sound. Probably not useful.

 

What you CAN do, if you want... is take a hybrid approach. Record using the patch in Helix, and then record a mono dry track at the same time. You can use that mono dry track to "re-amp", but you won't have to have Helix even turned on to do it, just fire up Native.

Or you could just use Native for all of it and then just bounce the track to a new track and turn off Native on the old tracks :)

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Or you could just use Native for all of it and then just bounce the track to a new track and turn off Native on the old tracks :)

 

You could just freeze your tracks. Accomplishes the same end.

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Or you could just use Native for all of it and then just bounce the track to a new track and turn off Native on the old tracks :)

Basically "freezing."

 

This is something producers do to free up system resources, as mixing can get quite cpu intensive.

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