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Helix Native

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Arnt you afraid of getting the red ring of death?  ;)

 

Oh no, because I don't think Avid would be stupid enough to run away from Microsoft and Apple to end up right at Microsoft again.  LOL

 

Now there's no escaping the taint of human imperfection, but we don't need to cake on corruption to the experience too.

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I've been running logic since Logic 9 on a late 2009 iMac and not had a problem or error i've not caused myself.

I also run Cubase 9 and I did run Pro Tools 12.5x for a bit too, all legal copies mind you, with no issues.

 

 

Im running Sierra now, but didn't update until I was sure all my software would work in it. No issues as of yet.

 

I also built over 12-15 PCs over the years,  (and ran them as Daws and gaming machines- never mixed)  and I've found out that if I set up

the PC for what it's being used for, then run the proper utilities as needed and then stay off the sites that push crap onto the OS I'm usually just fine.

 

I do hate the registry in Windows with a passion, but that's just me...   :P

 

Similar experience, although it's been a few years since I did a lot of work with building or managing Windows systems now (I managed a whole fleet of computers, some in-house and some rental, in the late 90s and until 2005). The registry in Windows is pure evil, but so is using the Terminal on Mac OS. 

 

 

All I'm saying is if someone like sony partnered with Avid to make a "console" like system that was dedicated to protools the experience would only get better.

 

 

Interesting idea, but don't you think the economies of scale would mean that most likely it wouldn't necessarily be that much better. With Mac OS and Windows 10 you have OSes that are being created for millions and millions (billions?) of installed systems around the world.

 

The number of people buying a whole brand new kind of system in 2017 would be few enough that they'd either be prohibitively expensive or there wouldn't be enough money in it to make it better than what's out there now... or of course both.

 

Btw, the Helix, with its many bug-fixes and updates, is evidence of this (even though I adore it). That said, all indications are that it will be a solidly mature product very very soon. (It already works nearly perfect for me, though.)

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Oh no, because I don't think Avid would be stupid enough to run away from Microsoft and Apple to end up right at Microsoft again.  LOL

 

Now there's no escaping the taint of human imperfection, but we don't need to cake on corruption to the experience too.

 

And yet the latest Pro tools runs on either a Mac, or Windows system, and no other. Isn't this correct?

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Similar experience, although it's been a few years since I did a lot of work with building or managing Windows systems now (I managed a whole fleet of computers, some in-house and some rental, in the late 90s and until 2005). The registry in Windows is pure evil, but so is using the Terminal on Mac OS. 

 

 

 

 

Interesting idea, but don't you think the economies of scale would mean that most likely it wouldn't necessarily be that much better. With Mac OS and Windows 10 you have OSes that are being created for millions and millions (billions?) of installed systems around the world.

 

The number of people buying a whole brand new kind of system in 2017 would be few enough that they'd either be prohibitively expensive or there wouldn't be enough money in it to make it better than what's out there now... or of course both.

 

Btw, the Helix, with its many bug-fixes and updates, is evidence of this (even though I adore it). That said, all indications are that it will be a solidly mature product very very soon. (It already works nearly perfect for me, though.)

 

 

Weird, the helix has been absolutely flawless and Computer-based systems have been absolute trash to me.

 

And yes those OS's are designed for billions as general purpose units.  And how many people trash Internet Explorer and Safari?

 

One person said something, but that guy is a pathological liar so I disregarded his input.

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... but that guy is a pathological liar so I disregarded his input.

 

 

But admit it, pathological liars are WAY more entertaining than people who only say nice things and tell the truth all the time... there's that...

 

The fact is it almost doesn't matter, because in the serious audio world, clients expect Pro Tools, so you have no choice.

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Weird, the helix has been absolutely flawless and Computer-based systems have been absolute trash to me.

 

If you are talking about the tone then yes I agree.

 

If you mean the operating system, then the Mac and Windows OS is just about all there is for most folks.

 

Sure there's Linux and such but how many do you know that run RedHat as their only OS these days?

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But admit it, pathological liars are WAY more entertaining than people who only say nice things and tell the truth all the time... there's that...

 

The fact is it almost doesn't matter, because in the serious audio world, clients expect Pro Tools, so you have no choice.

 

Until they see something better.  All you have to do is A/B it and let them make their decision.  Like A/B between the pod and helix.

 

I'm just saying - it would make sense for an audio company to try this.  Will it happen?  Probably not, like most good things - the pure idea will be corrupted into a circus much like what happened over at Oculus and it'll turn into a fight about money.

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Will it happen?  Probably not, like most good things - the pure idea will be corrupted into a circus much like what happened over at Oculus and it'll turn into a fight about money.

 

 

Yep, money is the bottom line for most companies. Take the Vetta 2's demise for example...  ;)

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Well it would be insanely cool of them to try making helix plugin run over CUDA or something.

 

A few people have tried reverbs and they work very well they just don't sound great.  They understood the concept just not the musical nature.  It's a perfect reverb.

 

edit: it had been years since I looked- looks like theres already cuda based plugins.

 

https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/790669/dogotal-sound-processing-with-cuda-cores-/

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Well it would be insanely cool of them to try making helix plugin run over CUDA or something.

 

A few people have tried reverbs and they work very well they just don't sound great.  They understood the concept just not the musical nature.  It's a perfect reverb.

 

edit: it had been years since I looked- looks like theres already cuda based plugins.

 

https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/790669/dogotal-sound-processing-with-cuda-cores-/

 

I hadn't looked at that in years either - neat!

 

The general problem with CUDA or any GPU based plugins is the double whammy of IO/DMA over two bridges - one batch of buffer copies for the audio to memory, then another batch to DMA for the GPU, process process, back to memory, back to the audio interface - this causes lotsa lotsa latency.   Well, at least nothing sub 6ms that I've heard of these days.  Nowadays native instructions on x86 can do a LOT of DSP like stuff in short-cycle times, and usually faster than those extra hops and synchronization.   IMHO, in the next few years it'll get better, but I wouldn't bet on anything like an industry-endorsed standard for GPU based audio plugin framework like ASIO or RTAS until those GPU latency upper-bounds are consistently below 1ms. 

 

Regarding your earlier comment on how all the OS's out there suck - I kind of agree, and I kind of don't.  OTOneH, I've never seen (or built) a piece of software that couldn't be improved.   OTOtherH,  OS's are kind of like (human) languages - their main value is that they provide a basis for just about ALL other activity to ride on top of - there's a lot to be said for a platform like *nix where everyone knows how to use it and build on it, even if it's laden with a half-century of idiosyncrasies and cruft piled on top of itself.    Point is that building on top of a mountain is a lot easier than building a mountain, regardless of whether it's your Dream-Mountain . 

 

Just my .0002 Spacebucks. 

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Sure, I wonder since on die gpu's are getting better, if the latency can be made up for.

 

And yes, getting protools to run is like getting 2 trained cats to balance on each other.

 

I'm saying why not train one cat instead of 2.

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I have 4 years of invoices at multiple business that say that part of this is a flat out lie.  You're probably a computer salesman.  LOL

Definitely not a computer salesman. Its pretty easy to not lollipop up an OS if you know what you're doing. I set up an old laptop for my my drummer to use for practice running XP and its been rock solid for over two years now. 

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Definitely not a computer salesman. Its pretty easy to not lollipop up an OS if you know what you're doing. I set up an old laptop for my my drummer to use for practice running XP and its been rock solid for over two years now.

 

Yup! But it is easier in my experience to mess up a windows machine than mac by far.

 

If you truly know what u are doing you can do great things with either!

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Yup! But it is easier in my experience to mess up a windows machine than mac by far.

 

If you truly know what u are doing you can do great things with either!

 

 

Why don't you go into console.app or windows event viewer and stop trying to convince people that you have a good experience with computers.

 

Your computers crash every second.

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If you don't like it, write a better OS. Then get it to work with everyone's hardware and software. I'll keep using my hiccup-free Windows 10 machine till the hardware wears out or I find a technological reason to upgrade ;)

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Why don't you go into console.app or windows event viewer and stop trying to convince people that you have a good experience with computers.

 

Your computers crash every second.

 

 

i have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about here...

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Why don't you go into console.app or windows event viewer and stop trying to convince people that you have a good experience with computers.

 

Your computers crash every second.

 

Just like with people, I've had both good and bad experiences with computers...

 

Personally, I have Windows 10 on my DAW computer (an ASUS ROG laptop, fwiw), and I can't say I've had any real problems that I can think of (other than I wish I had a bigger SSD on it).

 

I've had plenty of issues with software, though... Don't get me started on the joys of dealing with Autodesk. :angry:

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Just like with people, I've had both good and bad experiences with computers...

 

Personally, I have Windows 10 on my DAW computer (an ASUS ROG laptop, fwiw), and I can't say I've had any real problems that I can think of (other than I wish I had a bigger SSD on it).

 

I've had plenty of issues with software, though... Don't get me started on the joys of dealing with Autodesk. :angry:

 

 

I also have an ROG, and it has never blue-screened on me.  That is like saying hey, my Cadillac has never spontaneously exploded so it's very good.

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I also have an ROG, and it has never blues screened on me.  That is like saying hey, my Cadillac has never spontaneously exploded so it's very good.

 

Hey, not exploding is a very desirable feature... :)

 

When I was young, my parents had a Lincoln Town Car with all the electronic controls in the steering wheel (it was the early 90s, so that was still a big deal), and I'll never forget pulling into our driveway just as the steering started smoking...

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Hey, not exploding is a very desirable feature... :)

 

When I was young, my parents had a Lincoln Town Car with all the electronic controls in the steering wheel (it was the early 90s, so that was still a big deal), and I'll never forget pulling into our driveway just as the steering started smoking...

 

That's probably as annoying as message boards jumbling letters around after you've hit post already!

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 I can't help but notice that some of the points being made about plugins sound like some of the arguments that could have been made against including IRs in standalone MFX/modelers. I know it is not a precise or perhaps even a fair analogy as IRs are .wav files and have proven to be stable and they are not essentially highly customized applications like plugins which are more prone to problems. Granted this is probably too much of an apples to oranges analogy. However, IRs are third party  products and I would not be surprised if some of the same kinds of concerns we are currently hearing about enabling plugins were voiced regarding IRs prior to their implementation.

 

Totally switching gears here for a moment but you know you really have to hand it to Line6. I am an unabashed admirer of what they have achieved here already. I know people including me sometimes expect a lot for the price of a Helix but honestly look what you get for your money. At the risk of grossly oversimplifying you get a powerful computer with high quality components built like a tank with an included "monitor", advanced specialized hardware (think scribble strips, LED rings, cap-sensitive switches, impedance management, high quality A/D conversion, switching and MIDI for external devices, etc.) and extensive I/O including both digital and analog options customized for music production and performance. In addition you get a custom OS and application for that device that is constantly being enhanced with firmware upgrades as well as an additional application that communicates (Editor) with the Helix via Windows or Mac. You get the forum, an excellent support site for Helix users hosted by Line6 as well as a preset repository they host, not to speak of their well staffed and responsive support team. As if all that were not enough you get a compact, light, dependable and extremely flexible and powerful solution to live performance that saves your back and simultaneously provides top notch tone. Think about how much you have to spend on a decent desktop computer (before you even put any software on it) that sits in a dull grey box with average to poor audio hardware perhaps with little to no support after purchase. The Helix and Line 6 support infrastructure is really quite an amazing accomplishment at the price, given what it provides. Hat's off to Line 6!

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Totally switching gears here for a moment but you know you really have to hand it to Line6. I am an unabashed admirer of what they have achieved here already. I know people including me sometimes expect a lot for the price of a Helix but honestly look what you get for your money. At the risk of grossly oversimplifying you get a powerful computer with high quality components built like a tank with an included "monitor", advanced specialized hardware (think scribble strips, LED rings, cap-sensitive switches, impedance management, high quality A/D conversion, switching and MIDI for external devices, etc.) and extensive I/O including both digital and analog options customized for music production and performance. In addition you get a custom OS and application for that device that is constantly being enhanced with firmware upgrades as well as an additional application that communicates (Editor) with the Helix via Windows or Mac. You get the forum, an excellent support site for Helix users hosted by Line6 as well as a preset repository they host, not to speak of their well staffed and responsive support team. As if all that were not enough you get a compact, light, dependable and extremely flexible and powerful solution to live performance that saves your back and simultaneously provides top notch tone. Think about how much you have to spend on a decent desktop computer (before you even put any software on it) that sits in a dull grey box with average to poor audio hardware perhaps with little to no support after purchase. The Helix and Line 6 support infrastructure is really quite an amazing accomplishment at the price, given what it provides. Hat's off to Line 6!

Kind of puts it into perspective, doesn't it? :)

 

I think I recently priced out my Mac Pro "dream machine" and it sub-totaled for $9k+. What??? Yeah, that's not happening.

 

I am running a 2009 cheesegrater Mac Pro that is humming along quite nicely running Logic Pro X, intensive electronics CAD software, a number of code compilers and cross compilers for embedded development, about 853 USB devices most of which are my own frankenstein creations, dozens of TB of internal disks, 64GB RAM, video editing and a boatload of other stuff. It's pretty old but it's solid and I can't remember the last time it crashed. But I'll be d!mned if I'm gonna pay anywhere close to that to update it. I'll keep it on life support if I have to. :)

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I just wanna say chatting with you guys got me thinking and I decided to try another DAW software program.  

 

Maybe me and Avid don't mix.

 

I've had a pretty good 24 hour experience with logic pro x.  Will Helix Native work with this?

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I've had a pretty good 24 hour experience with logic pro x.  Will Helix Native work with this?

 

 

Pretty sure that Helix Native will be a standard regular ol' Audio Unit plug-in, so yes.

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Neither Mac nor PC is more (or less) prone to stability issues.

If the person assembling/configuring the PC knows what they're doing, a custom Win10 PC is a rock-solid DAW platform.

We've been building them for over 20 years.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is just plain wrong.

 

Proper backup of the boot drive should be done whether using Mac or PC.

 

If you're in a "zero downtime" profession (say a professional composer with strict/tight deadlines), you can do things like have a duplicate boot drive ready/waiting (just in case).  We just did this for Fred Coury.  

Prior planning prevents lollipop poor performance (the six P's)   ;)

 

In a high-performance scenario where you needs lots of drives (say a composer who needs massive disk-streaming polyphony from Kontakt 5, etc), the Mac platform (especially with current architecture) doesn't make a lot of financial sense. 

The latest generation iMac with Skylake i7 6700k is outperforming the $4000 Mac Pro (due to its aging components - this will eventually change).

With either the iMac or Mac Pro, additional drives have to be external (via USB-3 or Thunderbolt).  

As a point of reference, a 1TB Thunderbolt conventional HD is $200.  That same drive is about $60 (if installed internally).

If you're like me... and want/need a machine with numerous SSDs/HDs, the cost adds up fast.

ie:  To duplicate my 8 internal drives with external Thunderbolt equivalents, it would cost over $2000.

Apple machines *are* very slick/sleek... but this was very short-sighted on their part.

BTW, You want to change the boot drive on your iMac?  It's a whole lot of fun peeling off the entire glass/display.  

You have to reapply it with double-sided tape (similar to an iPhone of iPad)... and you've got one shot to get it right.  

Even for folks who are pretty tech savvy, it'll get your blood pumping. 

 

A DAW really isn't so different from an instrument.

The devil is in all the small details.

If you play a nice PRS, Suhr, Gibson Custom, etc... you can expect it to perform well... with little muss/fuss.

Hardware and electronics don't need to be upgraded, the nut is cut properly, maybe the action needs a tiny adjustment...

But the guitar plays/sounds great out of the box.

 

With a Mac (within existing limitations), the details have been attended to...

With a PC, that's up the the individual.

 

Back to Helix Native, I'm excited to work with it.

I've got some Helix sounds that really work well (for me)... both live and studio.

What I love about Helix, it just so quick/easy to get the desired result.

I'd like to see better handling of IR... and more IR slots.

Otherwise, we can always use more models... but what's already available covers most territory.

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BTW, You want to change the boot drive on your iMac?  It's a whole lot of fun peeling off the entire glass/display. 

 

Ive done this- makes yer butt pucker alright  :P

 

BTW Harbor Freight sells the nicest (and cheapest) little suction cups for this task.

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And logic pro X just crashed while doing a basic thing.  So do you blame 2 diametric opposite software companies or do you blame the host they're running on?

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Interesting. Was the unit losing its bios settings then?

 

 

No but it fixed a broken ethernet in a different imac so tried the same thing.  It's a 2008 so it was probably going to happen in a few years.  It worked so much better from the 10lb of dust I blew out of it, though.

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And logic pro X just crashed while doing a basic thing.

 

 

Really? That was normal for me on Windoze, but not a Mac.

 

What were you doing when it crashed? Things like data storage stuff running in the background?

I don't think I have ever had Logic X (updated to latest of course) crash by itself.

But maybe I'm not running as many tracks as you were? Interesting.  :)

 

I am running a 2009 cheesegrater Mac Pro that is humming along quite nicely running Logic Pro X, intensive electronics CAD software, a number of code compilers and cross compilers for embedded development, about 853 USB devices most of which are my own frankenstein creations, dozens of TB of internal disks, 64GB RAM, video editing and a boatload of other stuff. It's pretty old but it's solid and I can't remember the last time it crashed.

 

Thats me in a nutshell ^^  :lol:

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I think there are some quality problems introduced into the later versions of Logic. I've had 10.3 crash a couple of times too, mostly when creating controller assignments. The bug list on https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=42&start=35 seems pretty active a well.

 

 

I just got my dad to try logic and likes it a lot, out of everything the hardest thing is figuring out midi contoller for us. LOL

 

We like it a lot, though.  Should have jumped in sooner.

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Ive done this- makes yer butt pucker alright  :P

 

BTW Harbor Freight sells the nicest (and cheapest) little suction cups for this task.

 

Never thought about in those terms...   

But the short answer is, yes... it does.   :D

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Well just wait until you have to change the cmos battery.  I did it this week, actually.

 

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+EMC+2308+PRAM+Battery+Replacement/1970

 

I knew I was going to do this when I bought the iMac (wouldn't recommend it for those who've never worked on computers)...

I ripped it completely apart and upgraded the CPU to a 6700k, installed a real SSD (to replace the "Fusion" drive), maxed out the RAM.

Re-applied the screen... and hit the power-button...

There's a significant pause after doing so... and that cues the "puckering"    ;)

After a couple seconds, you hear the familiar Mac start-up sound... and relief!

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Hello all,

 

Not sure if this has been covered, but I have the floor Helix and am planning to get the Native at the discounted price for owners at $99, when it comes out.

 

But what happens if I sell my Helix floor later on - will I still be able to use Native, without having to buy the non-discounted version?

 

Thinking how the licence will behave, when being registered to a new user.

 

Thanks

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Hello all,

 

Not sure if this has been covered, but I have the floor Helix and am planning to the Native at the discounted price for owners at $99, when it comes out.

 

But what happens if I sell my Helix floor later on - will I still be able to use Native, without having to buy the non-discounted version?

 

Thinking how the licence will behave, when being registered to a new user.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Good question. I also heard the discount will be for US customers only. :( Is that true? 

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I'm guessing, but I don't think the license will be tied to Helix in any way, but to the computer it's being used on.

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