My Take on the Allure and Celestion IRs

[DunedinDragon]

It's been a busy week playing around with the various IRs that came out.  I downloaded the free Allure set as well as the free demo from Celestion, and even purchased one of the Celestion packs which was the anniversary model.  I'm still working my way through them and making comparisons to my OwnHammer IRs but I'm starting to come to a few conclusions.

 

I'm not saying they won't be useful in some cases, but the OwnHammer IRs have been my product of choice because of the variety of IRs it comes with.  This has allowed me to find IRs in their packs that come considerably closer to the tone I'm after and has reduced the amount of time I need to tweek things to get the tone I want.  I can't say that either the Allure or the Celestions have accomplished that as well as the OwnHammers have, but the Allures seem to have a bit more character to them than the Celestions and are therefore a bit easier to get the tone I want with less tweeking.

 

As my test I took two different patches, one clean and one dirty using OH cabinets that have served me quite well.  For the overdriven sound I used a Marshall 4 x 12 and a Bogner 2 x 12 and compared it to what I could find that would come close with the Allure and the Celestion.  The Allure did a pretty good job coming close on the Marshall, but nothing really came very close to the Bogner.  That's probably to be expected as the Bogner has a very unique character to it.  To my ear the Celestion did an okay job on the Marshall with it's 4 x 12 Royer mic's Fat variation, but in all cases the Celestions seems pretty raw.  They really don't specify what kind of cabinet they use so it may be by design they try to minimize the cabinet effect on the sound of the speakers in order to give you something more indicative of the difference in the speakers.

 

I still have to do a little more work on the clean sounds to see how they compare, but from what I've seen so far I think both can be useful in some situations, and add a little wider choice for some patches.  They're certainly easier to work with than the avalanche of variations you get with the OwnHammer sets, but it's in those variations that I've found IR's that really are dead-on for achieving the tone I want.

[alpag]

Thanks for the feedback , and I'm not surprised.

Thing is, it's the generally warmer Ownhammer IRs that work best with the Helix.

It might be a different story if your setup was using irs in your DAW with a real amp / load box and line out to pc.

 

It's not always down to the quality or accuracy of the irs, but rather, which works best with the Helix which has a tendency towards brightness and fizz.

[amsdenj]

I tend to like the warmer IRs too.

[Verne-Bunsen]

I spent some time with the Allure Tweed, the A30 and the Deluxe (which I take to be a 4x10, a 2x12 and a 1x12 respectively) last night. The Tweed and the Deluxe were very good to my ears, the A30 however was not so much. It was a bit bizarre, it had almost a chorusing effect about it that I found very distracting. Haven't played with the others yet. I've been auditioning IRs like it was my day job recently, so I'm just putting them into the system...

[laxtlo]

Or is the IR just a big scam ?  ;) They just sold us all kind of shxx :) 

[Verne-Bunsen]

...The (Allure) Tweed and the Deluxe were very good to my ears, the A30 however was not so much. It was a bit bizarre, it had almost a chorusing effect about it that I found very distracting...

 

I've got to take this back, although I'm rather confused about it. When I encountered this I tried different amps, re-started Helix, re-loaded the IR, even went so far as to re-extract it from the zip file, and the bizarre chorusing was present no matter what. But only with the A30 IR. Tried it again today, and the bizarreness gone. Sounds great in fact.  :blink:

[k21267]

Hey DunedinDragon, any chance you could post the file names of those fave Own Hammers you use.

I've been digging a few of theirs but with so many options it would be cool to compare to what some others dig. I've downloaded and installed the Allure pack. I'm really like them. There just seems to be a bit more livelyness and realness to em for me at this point

.Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Verne-Bunsen]

I know you weren't asking me particularly, but I'll chime in regarding the Ownhammers. I find that the OH1 and/or OH2 mixes (sometimes F, sometimes M+, depending...) picked from the Quick Start folders give me just what I'm looking for.

[DunedinDragon]

Hey DunedinDragon, any chance you could post the file names of those fave Own Hammers you use.

I've been digging a few of theirs but with so many options it would be cool to compare to what some others dig. I've downloaded and installed the Allure pack. I'm really like them. There just seems to be a bit more livelyness and realness to em for me at this point

.Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

For the Bogner I used the OH 212 BOG-SH GLD+SLV OH2-05

 

For the Marshall I used the OH 412 MAR-CB EV-MIX OH2-05

 

Generally speaking the 05 configurations seem to work best with my Yamaha DXR12 speaker.  On some of the brighter IRs like the 410 Spring Reverb I've gone up to the 06 and even 07 configurations to mitigate the highs.  I find the combination mix of a Telefunken MD421-5 and a Royer 121 ribbon seems to work well for me.

[jbuhajla]

I found the Allure pack to be quite nice for cleans. I matched the IR to the corresponding amp model they paired quite nicely. They are my favorites in terms of free IRs. 

[erniedenov]

I found the Allure pack to be quite nice for cleans. I matched the IR to the corresponding amp model they paired quite nicely. They are my favorites in terms of free IRs. 

 

Agreed! I auditioned them last night (only with headphones so far). The WhoWatt 100 is my favorite. I paired it with the Mesa Mark IV clean channel and I think I've made my best clean patch yet! Thanks Allure and Line 6!

[DunedinDragon]

I played a little bit with some clean settings last night and this morning.  My take is the Allure and Celestions seem to do much better with clean settings than they do with overdriven signals when compared to my OwnHammer IRs.  They're both still considerably brighter and have less warmth than the OH's, but the Dark and Dark2 IR variations help with that a lot on the Celestions.

 

The biggest problem I have with the Allure IRs is they seem VERY quiet when compared to both the OwnHammer and Celestion IRs.  I'm not exactly sure why that is, but it makes them feel a bit more brittle with less body.  Even making changes to the level parameter doesn't seem to affect it as much.  Unlike the other IRs from OH and Celestion, when you scroll through the various Allure IRs there's not as much change in the character of the tone.  Of course this may be comparing apples and oranges since even with the Celestion there are variations with different mics and different mixes whereas the Allure IR's are just the basic IR with no variations in mic or mic setup of mixes.  But then again, they are free unlike the others, so you're getting what you pay for I suppose.

 

My take on it at this point is I'll likely use the Allure IRs in combination with other IRs to give me some extra texture, but I'm not sure I'd use them by themselves as a single IR as that would probably require a lot of tweaking with EQs and such to get what I want.

[erniedenov]

I played a little bit with some clean settings last night and this morning.  My take is the Allure and Celestions seem to do much better with clean settings than they do with overdriven signals when compared to my OwnHammer IRs.  They're both still considerably brighter and have less warmth than the OH's, but the Dark and Dark2 IR variations help with that a lot on the Celestions.

 

The biggest problem I have with the Allure IRs is they seem VERY quiet when compared to both the OwnHammer and Celestion IRs.  I'm not exactly sure why that is, but it makes them feel a bit more brittle with less body.  Even making changes to the level parameter doesn't seem to affect it as much.  Unlike the other IRs from OH and Celestion, when you scroll through the various Allure IRs there's not as much change in the character of the tone.  Of course this may be comparing apples and oranges since even with the Celestion there are variations with different mics and different mixes whereas the Allure IR's are just the basic IR with no variations in mic or mic setup of mixes.  But then again, they are free unlike the others, so you're getting what you pay for I suppose.

 

My take on it at this point is I'll likely use the Allure IRs in combination with other IRs to give me some extra texture, but I'm not sure I'd use them by themselves as a single IR as that would probably require a lot of tweaking with EQs and such to get what I want.

 

I generally agree about the Allure IRs, but as I stated above, I found the WhoWatt-100 to be the standout among them and it's really nice for cleans. It's more full bodied than the other ones and just with the amp block's tone controls I was able to EQ it to my liking, reducing the treble and adding some more bass and mids. I didn't think it was that much quieter than the free Ownhammer IRs I have, certainly not to the point where it's unmanageable. It has a real hi-fi quality shimmer that's very appealing, at least to me. Obviously, tone is a subjective thing, but I found that particular IR to be quite usable!

 

I actually like that there wasn't a bunch of variations with various mics positioned in various increments in relation to the speaker; I'm guessing just favorites were chosen. I don't mean to complain about the OH ones (especially not the free demo; thanks,OH!), but all of those choices (many of which the differences are extremely subtle), gives me option anxiety! You could go crazy trying to choose a handful of useable IRs out of the multitudes. 

 

Anyway, just another take on the Allures (at least one of them). As with anything, one needs to judge for one's self.

[johnonguitar]

The free Celestion download is an absolute belter

 

Maybe it's because I use either a v30 1x12 open back or 2x12 closed that a mix v30 1x12 open and closed IR is just making Helix sound VERY familiar at the moment

 

The Allure IR's are a step up from the modelled cabs but find them a little "safe" sounding

[mattbarden]

I've been spending the last couple days toying with the Celestion packs I got. I picked up the V30 2x12 and 4x12 packs. Haven't done too much with the 2x12 yet but so far I'm really liking the 4x12. Totally worth it I'd say, the half off deal just makes it even better.

[jabak]

I've been playing around with the Allure pack for an hour or so. I'm in to the high gain metal stuff. The 59 Tweed is just to week for any crunch IMO. But it actually sounds nice when used in clean tones. It kinda take out the low end in a good way. Testaments 80's clean tones comes to mind.

 

The cali v30 is also good for clean tones and is ok for crunch but does miss some punch.

 

The A30 is ok for crunch - a bit dark but well defined. It sounds like some of the OH's. The USDeluxe reminds me of Rosen digitals MESA Rectifier but with less low. The Greenback is not my cup of tea at all. The whowatt I liked mostly for clean tones.

All in all a very versatile collection IMO.

[DunedinDragon]

Well, I've played all week on the Anniversary pack from Celestion mostly on some bluesy type stuff (Eric Clapton, JJ Cale) with the Litigator amp and some funk (Blind Boys of Alabama) using the Soldano amp and I have to say I'm liking them more and more on these cleaner settings with my Strat using Lace Sensor pickups.  I can't say I like any of the mix variations using combinations of the mic's, but the single mic mixes using the Royer ribbon mic, SM57, and MD421 are very impressive and very easy to pickup the nuances of the different mics.  Because I tend to like my tones a bit warmer, I found I was particularly fond of the Dark, Dark2, and Fat variations in the closed back 2 x 12 and 4 x 12 arrangements.

 

The difference I've noticed is these IRs tend to have a much more authentic tone than do the OwnHammers which, in comparison, feel a bit more processed.  On some patches I like that processed mix sound, but on some stuff, especially blues, soul, and funk, I think the authentic less processed sound works better.  They have a LOT of presence so if you minimize the effects such as reverb (as in the case of funk or soul) it really sounds very much like the amp is right there in front of you.

 

All in all I have to say I'm extremely pleased with this collection.

[amsdenj]

Well, I've played all week on the Anniversary pack from Celestion mostly on some bluesy type stuff (Eric Clapton, JJ Cale) with the Litigator amp and some funk (Blind Boys of Alabama) using the Soldano amp and I have to say I'm liking them more and more on these cleaner settings with my Strat using Lace Sensor pickups.  I can't say I like any of the mix variations using combinations of the mic's, but the single mic mixes using the Royer ribbon mic, SM57, and MD421 are very impressive and very easy to pickup the nuances of the different mics.  Because I tend to like my tones a bit warmer, I found I was particularly fond of the Dark, Dark2, and Fat variations in the closed back 2 x 12 and 4 x 12 arrangements.

 

The difference I've noticed is these IRs tend to have a much more authentic tone than do the OwnHammers which, in comparison, feel a bit more processed.  On some patches I like that processed mix sound, but on some stuff, especially blues, soul, and funk, I think the authentic less processed sound works better.  They have a LOT of presence so if you minimize the effects such as reverb (as in the case of funk or soul) it really sounds very much like the amp is right there in front of you.

 

All in all I have to say I'm extremely pleased with this collection.

 

Nice post, thanks. I haven't tried these IRs yet, bought them yesterday. You and I have similar tastes I suspect so I'm going follow some of your suggestions and see how it goes. Will probably have to wait for the weekend though.

[jbuhajla]

Well, I've played all week on the Anniversary pack from Celestion mostly on some bluesy type stuff (Eric Clapton, JJ Cale) with the Litigator amp and some funk (Blind Boys of Alabama) using the Soldano amp and I have to say I'm liking them more and more on these cleaner settings with my Strat using Lace Sensor pickups.  I can't say I like any of the mix variations using combinations of the mic's, but the single mic mixes using the Royer ribbon mic, SM57, and MD421 are very impressive and very easy to pickup the nuances of the different mics.  Because I tend to like my tones a bit warmer, I found I was particularly fond of the Dark, Dark2, and Fat variations in the closed back 2 x 12 and 4 x 12 arrangements.

 

The difference I've noticed is these IRs tend to have a much more authentic tone than do the OwnHammers which, in comparison, feel a bit more processed.  On some patches I like that processed mix sound, but on some stuff, especially blues, soul, and funk, I think the authentic less processed sound works better.  They have a LOT of presence so if you minimize the effects such as reverb (as in the case of funk or soul) it really sounds very much like the amp is right there in front of you.

 

All in all I have to say I'm extremely pleased with this collection.

Well, I guess I am going to have to give these a try too. Those are some of the same things I look for in sound. 

[johnonguitar]

I was REALLY digging the free v30 mix. So much so that one IR now gets used for pretty much everything. Im completely over the moon with it. Maybe because i spend most of my life playing a Cornford 1x12 open back or 2x12 closed back. Ive bought the 4x12 closed and the 2x12 open packs (in virtual land having to carry a speaker cabinet doesn't limit its size ;) and I doubt ill use them much but the namm17 promo was finishing today so thought i might as well stock up.


Brilliant

[DunedinDragon]

I was REALLY digging the free v30 mix. So much so that one IR now gets used for pretty much everything. Im completely over the moon with it. Maybe because i spend most of my life playing a Cornford 1x12 open back or 2x12 closed back. Ive bought the 4x12 closed and the 2x12 open packs (in virtual land having to carry a speaker cabinet doesn't limit its size ;) and I doubt ill use them much but the namm17 promo was finishing today so thought i might as well stock up.

 

 

Brilliant

 

Yep...me too.  I got the email and figured I may as well take advantage of it so I loaded up.  Whether I use them or not, they're definitely good enough to have on hand.

[amsdenj]

I spent some time this weekend organizing and auditioning my collection of IRs. I used S-Gear as a plugin in Logic Pro X, and used Logic's Space Designer to audition the IRs. This made it easy since I could drag and drop from Finder into Space Designer and the IR would take effect immediately. Here's may overall approach:

 

1. Find some convenient means of adding and removing IRs very fast on your system. Drag and drop from the file system is best as it allows you to quickly audition IRs from different providers without having to load them into a plugin or hardware device. Its easiest to do this in a DAW like Reaper than on Helix because of the ability to quickly try different IRs.

 

2. Record a few loops with different levels of complexity and drive settings so you can try different things free-hand. Keep the loops very short so you're hearing the same musical phrase over an over. That makes it easier to compare things.

 

3. Decide on what kind of speaker you generally prefer, perhaps based on what your favorite guitarists use. For many of us, that's Celestion.

 

4. Decide on what kind of cabinet you generally prefer, 1x12 open back, 2x12 open back, 2x12 closed back, 4x12 closed back, etc. 

 

5. Decide on what kind of mic you generally prefer, SM57 for more aggressive highs, LDC for more natural reproduction, ribbon for a warmer sound.

 

6. Decide on where you typically like to place the mic - say cap-edge, 2"

 

The purpose of 3, 4, 5 and 6 is to establish a common comparison point that you think is close to what you might end up with. You'll compare different speakers with the same recorded loops, cabinet style, mic and mic position. This way you are focusing on just the difference in the speakers, keeping everything else as constant as possible.

 

7. What I do is create an "audition" folder for auditioning a bunch of IRs, and another folder called "Favorite IRs". Go through all your available IR folders from different vendors and create links in your audition folder to each of the speakers you want to audition, choosing the variation that matches your cabinet style, mic and mic position above as closely as possible. Don't worry about whether you got all those things right, we'll deal with that later. What you want is a folder of IRs of different speakers with everything else the same, that you can get to quickly and easily, add to your auditioning system (DAW, standalone-amp modeler, or Helix).

 

7. Start with the clean, chords and some clean leads loops. Turn on loop playback and drag and drop each IR from your "audition" folder into your DAW convolver plugin (e.g., Logic Space Designer) and listen to the loop.

 

8. Move any IR's you really like into your "Favorite IRs" folder so you can remember them.

 

8.1. Repeat the process with different gain levels in your recorded loops so you can compare the IRs at different distortion levels. Some speakers that sound good clean are too bright for distorted tones. 

 

9. Repeat the process with your Favorite IRs until you have the ones you really like, maybe even in priority order.

 

10. Now go back to the vendor's IR folder and repeat the same process, but this time with different cabinets. Then do it again with different mics. And then finally again with different mic positions. You're starting with the things that most impact the tone, then zeroing in on the things that may have somewhat less pronounce impact on the tone. 

 

The idea is to narrow down a selection of 100's of IRs into a small set that you will actually use and that help you get your preferred tone.

 

After I did all this, I sort of came back to one of my original favorites, Redwirez BasketweaveG12M25s. using a Royer R121 at cap-edge, 2". I also like the Celestion 4x12 G12-65s, especially since I have a pair of those in an old Fender Bassman 2x12 Cabinet.

 

Frankly, many of the IRs sounded great, just different. And many of the differences were pretty subtle. For example, I made my own IR of my 2x12 cabinet with the G12-65s, and it sounds pretty close to the one created by Celestion in a similar cabinet. At this point I'm satisfied that I can pick a few out of my favorites, load them into Helix, start playing, and stop worrying that I might be missing something if I just buy another 100 IRs.

[bradlake]

Yup, IMO Celestion did a pretty nice job with these and especially the open backs have some nice mojo, tho I don't yet know how they will sit in a mix, but for solo noodling, very clear and present with smooth high end. Amsdenj, great tip on using Space Designer to audition IRs , I just discovered that recently myself.

[zooey]

Any difference between the 200 and 500 ms versions of the Celestions, in sound or DSP?

[Rewolf48]

In Helix there will be none - because Helix Editor truncates them down to 2048 samples at 48k which is 42.7 ms and you can reduce that down to 21.4 ms by picking the 1024 sample.

 

In a DAW the 200ms version will use less CPU than the 500ms version, but the 500ms version will have more reverb detail from the cab/room 

[zooey]

Sorry I wasn't clearer. Is the theory that the difference is truncated away by the conversion in Helix, so you don't end up with a higher quality version by starting with the longer ones?

[johnonguitar]

Sorry I wasn't clearer. Is the theory that the difference is truncated away by the conversion in Helix, so you don't end up with a higher quality version by starting with the longer ones?

Yes

 

Although quality and length measured differently

[mattbarden]

I was REALLY digging the free v30 mix. So much so that one IR now gets used for pretty much everything. Im completely over the moon with it. Maybe because i spend most of my life playing a Cornford 1x12 open back or 2x12 closed back. Ive bought the 4x12 closed and the 2x12 open packs (in virtual land having to carry a speaker cabinet doesn't limit its size ;) and I doubt ill use them much but the namm17 promo was finishing today so thought i might as well stock up.

 

 

Brilliant

Yep their demo cab is what sold me. I use it for all my clean stuff now. I have the Ownhammer Cali Duo and I like the Celestion 2x12 and 4x12 just a little bit more. Celestion did a great job with their impulses. Still use the Ownhammers for tonal differences when layering, but the Celestions are now my go to IR's.

[johnonguitar]

Yep their demo cab is what sold me. I use it for all my clean stuff now. I have the Ownhammer Cali Duo and I like the Celestion 2x12 and 4x12 just a little bit more. Celestion did a great job with their impulses. Still use the Ownhammers for tonal differences when layering, but the Celestions are now my go to IR's.

It's the first ever IR I've come across that I'm equally happy running clean and distorted guitar through.