shilohlsk Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Hi All, I'm thinking using DI box for Helix. I know Helix has XLR out to mixer. But the manual tell us that mixer should not provide phantom power to Helix. However, other instruments might need the phantom power from mixer meanwhile, therefore, for this case, I can't use XLR cable for connecting Helix and mixer. To use TRS cable for connecting Helix and mixer, the length of TRS cable can't be too long. Therefore using a DI box between Helix and mixer is a good way to do so. 1. Which type of DI box works best with Helix (active or passive)? 2. Does someone familiar with Radical DI products? I just need a DI box for connection Helix and Mixer (no amp or cab effect by the DI box as I will use the amp and cab effect from Helix). For connection will be like this: Guitar-->Helix (effects, amp, cab)-TRS->DI Box-XLR->Mixer Thanks for your help. Shiloh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyn Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 A passive DI is ideal. Then you don't have to worry if there is phantom power or not. The output impedance of the Helix is low enough to easily drive the transformers in a passive DI. Something like the Radial ProDI is perfect for this, as it has good linear headroom and shielding. The Radial Stagebug SB-2 passive DI is a cheaper option with similar performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I use this same type of setup for this same reason. Pretty much I simply use a standard DI box (in my case a Live Wire) which has a 1/4" in and 1/4" out/thru with a pad setting which I set to 0, and then an XLR out to the board. In my case I take the 1/4" out/thru to my onstage FRFR speaker, and run the XLR to the board. The only thing that confuses me in your description is your reference to a TRS line. The standard 1/4" out on the Helix is a TS line, not TRS so it's not clear where the source of your line is coming from on the back of the Helix. In my case I'm simply using one output from the left/mono 1/4" out on the Helix into the DI box which sends one signal to my stage monitor (TS) and another signal to the board (XLR). Is this what you're trying to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joepeggio Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I use an inexpensive Art DTI box. Its simply a transformer isolator. Advantage is it has XLR, TS/TRS, RCA ins and outs, converting between all. Another advantage for me is I assign the master volume only to me stage monitor /backline so i can adjust my volume on the helix without affecting house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I have been using a trio of 40-year old IMP 2 direct boxes forever with my modelers. I did a side-by-side. There is NO difference in quality between using the XLR out and a 1/4" to a DI box. None. I never trust XLR outs on devices like this. Never have. I've compared the past few generations of Line 6 products and as long as that 1/4" lead isn't very long (I keep it at about 3' or less), there just is no reason to use the XLR outs outside the studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdiddy5000 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I have been using a trio of 40-year old IMP 2 direct boxes forever with my modelers. I did a side-by-side. There is NO difference in quality between using the XLR out and a 1/4" to a DI box. None. I never trust XLR outs on devices like this. Never have. I've compared the past few generations of Line 6 products and as long as that 1/4" lead isn't very long (I keep it at about 3' or less), there just is no reason to use the XLR outs outside the studio. Peter, Little confused by the last statement. If you can't hear a difference between the 1/4">DI and XLR outs, why wouldn't you just use the XLRs all the time? Maybe I'm just misreading this... in a live setting, running the XLRs are definitely easier... at least if you're running to FOH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Peter, Little confused by the last statement. If you can't hear a difference between the 1/4">DI and XLR outs, why wouldn't you just use the XLRs all the time? Maybe I'm just misreading this... in a live setting, running the XLRs are definitely easier... at least if you're running to FOH... Because if there's something wacky at the board, phantom power, or perhaps just a mismatch of level or something, the 1/4" to DI will ALWAYS work, and the XLR will sometimes create a problem. Simple, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdiddy5000 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Because if there's something wacky at the board, phantom power, or perhaps just a mismatch of level or something, the 1/4" to DI will ALWAYS work, and the XLR will sometimes create a problem. Simple, really. Gotcha. Makes good sense. Thanks for clarifying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyn Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Just picked up a Radial Ice Cube line isolator that works perfectly for protecting the Helix from phantom power being applied to its output. The Ice Cube has a male and female XLR connector and an optional ground lift switch. The transformer sounds really transparent too, and most importantly doesn't saturate when driving decent levels through it. Although this isn't a DI, its perfect for interfacing devices XLR to XLR while preventing phantom power from passing through, and helping with ground related problems with excessive noise that exceeds the common mode rejection capability of the input side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanecgriffo Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Just picked up a Radial Ice Cube line isolator that works perfectly for protecting the Helix from phantom power being applied to its output. The Ice Cube has a male and female XLR connector and an optional ground lift switch. The transformer sounds really transparent too, and most importantly doesn't saturate when driving decent levels through it. Although this isn't a DI, its perfect for interfacing devices XLR to XLR while preventing phantom power from passing through, and helping with ground related problems with excessive noise that exceeds the common mode rejection capability of the input side. do you know does it clean up the ever occuring noise when you're using a strat with a bit of gain when using the pickup selector on the bridge the middle and the neck positions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileskb Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Only slightly related to the original question.... If the Helix SHOULD NOT have Phantom Power sent to it, why is there no protection from it? I simple voltage detection circuit seems like it would have been prudent. Yes most better boards you can select Phantom per channel, but really if "used as directed" we are at the mercy of "hoping" the nut behind the wheel (engineers) know to not use Phantom or accidentally turn it on. Larger stages are going to have the monitor engineer and the FOH engineer to worry about especially in situations where several bands play back to back. I'll admit, I've killed a mic or two over the years by accident swapping things around in the heat of battle... stuff happens.. It's one thing to tear up a $100 mic, it's quite another to take out someones $1500 rig. :( EDIT... Asked and Answered.... Do a Search on "phantom power blocker" I think I'm gonna get a couple... and ALWAYS use them if hooked into someone else's gear. It would seem this DOES address the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Only slightly related to the original question.... If the Helix SHOULD NOT have Phantom Power sent to it, why is there no protection from it? I simple voltage detection circuit seems like it would have been prudent. Yes most better boards you can select Phantom per channel, but really if "used as directed" we are at the mercy of "hoping" the nut behind the wheel (engineers) know to not use Phantom or accidentally turn it on. Larger stages are going to have the monitor engineer and the FOH engineer to worry about especially in situations where several bands play back to back. I'll admit, I've killed a mic or two over the years by accident swapping things around in the heat of battle... stuff happens.. It's one thing to tear up a $100 mic, it's quite another to take out someones $1500 rig. :( EDIT... Asked and Answered.... Do a Search on "phantom power blocker" I think I'm gonna get a couple... and ALWAYS use them if hooked into someone else's gear. It would seem this DOES address the OP. Or just use a DI if you have it already. It sounds the same. And there are other problems that you run into on the gig with XLR outs from gear, impedance and level issues and stuff. Add a DI and it pretty much eliminates any of those things from happening. And, again, it sounds the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyn Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 do you know does it clean up the ever occuring noise when you're using a strat with a bit of gain when using the pickup selector on the bridge the middle and the neck positions?No, that is a problem related to single coil pickups picking up the magnetic field in the environment. Fixes for that include: use positions 2 and 4 on a strat, use humbuckers, use something like the Suhr/Illitch silent backplate, avoid rooms with badly run power or electrically noisy dimmers, stay away from large transformers that radiate a strong field, turn your guitar so it is faces perpendicular to the induced field (minimum noise position), use outboard gear like the EHX Humdebugger that notches the 60Hz signal, use pickups not based on magnetic induction (piezos), roll down the guitar volume when not playing, embrace the hum and learn to like it, etc Ground isolation, power conditioners,and other methods to reduce system noise will have little to no effect on field induced hum in a single coil pickup.This is an age old problem that precipitated the invention of humbuckers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helix_ozgur Posted August 18, 2023 Share Posted August 18, 2023 Hello, I didn't want to open a new topic. Can I use this instead of dibox? Will this protect my helix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 On 8/18/2023 at 8:55 AM, helix_ozgur said: Hello, I didn't want to open a new topic. Can I use this instead of dibox? Will this protect my helix? It's not balanced, it's not a real DI, it can cause as many problems as it solves, unlike a DI. Just use a DI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGW-Alberta Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 https://www.radialeng.com/product/prod2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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