Hairy (not the good kind) on notes and tones. Digital Clipping?

[PeterHamm]

Leave it alone I will. But what is nuts is the OP with vague terminology, still has yet to produce a clip, or really demonstrated much in genuinely wanting to fix the problem rather than just obsessively stating it.

 

 

In his defense, he described it well, I've heard it, and I think that the ways you "dial it out" are counter-intuitive, and I would love to have been able to try and do so.

 

We've had a few trolls around here lately, for the most part this guy isn't one, but some of the Helix fan bois HAVE been troll-ish to him, imho.

[Lachdanan0121]

Whatever dude. I described it the best I could. And making and posting a video takes some work which I'm just not willing to do. Maybe if I could just upload something directly I would but I'm pretty sure I have to link it to you tube or SoundCloud or something which means I have to create a new SoundCloud or YouTube cause I don't want some test thing on my music stuff. Whatever I shouldn't have to do that although I agree it would help.

 

Plus. I pointed out the sound on that video. It's there. I'm happy for you that you can't hear it.

 

Enjoy your pod

Whatever dude is quite app in reverse as well. The "enjoy your pod" comment only adds to the confirmation of intent. Move along.

[gunpointmetal]

You mean that trailing hash sound anything with gain makes when its mic'ed up and you mute a ringing string? That little "wash" that every tube amp I've ever played through exhibits without a noise gate in the loop? That sound? 

 

Don't ask for help and then berate everyone trying to help you because you don't "have time" to create a clip (yet you have time to, in detail, reply to every comment on this thread) or a video that shows us what you're referring to. 

 

And really, quoting a Guitar Center employee is about the least believable way to make a point. 

 

You didn't like the sound, move on. It works just fine for LOTS of other people.

 

But since you insist on speaking of how high-quality your tastes are and asking for a list of touring pros who are using this. Why not post some clips or what you're up to professionally so we can hear what kind of tones your golden ears are using for recording and touring. 

[joseroys]

You mean that trailing hash sound anything with gain makes when its mic'ed up and you mute a ringing string? That little "wash" that every tube amp I've ever played through exhibits without a noise gate in the loop? That sound?

 

Don't ask for help and then berate everyone trying to help you because you don't "have time" to create a clip (yet you have time to, in detail, reply to every comment on this thread) or a video that shows us what you're referring to.

 

And really, quoting a Guitar Center employee is about the least believable way to make a point.

 

You didn't like the sound, move on. It works just fine for LOTS of other people.

 

But since you insist on speaking of how high-quality your tastes are and asking for a list of touring pros who are using this. Why not post some clips or what you're up to professionally so we can hear what kind of tones your golden ears are using for recording and touring.

No. Amps and pedals do not exhibiy this hash across the entire frequency spectrum. My amps do not make that noise.

 

I was trying be polite and respond to everyone. Then people started doubting what i was saying and saying I was trolling.

 

Yeah. The guitar center employees new exactly what I was talking about. I won't defend guitar center but these guys new exactly what I was talking about. Coincidence?

 

I already explained why I'm not making a video. And I never said I was doing phenomenal stuff. And I'm not here to show off my credits or my musicianship. But I'm glad you felt like you had to be a d-ck. And hence why I started to get annoyed and calling people out.

 

Anyways. I already sent it back. So yes. I've moved on. Please feel free to provide any other wanker comments. I will refrain my.opinion of you based on the way you replied.

[gunpointmetal]

I didn't insult (basically) everyone else's tastes as you did, I simply asked for an example because so far your contention has been that your ears are too good for the Helix, which has demonstrably been a fine piece of gear for literally thousands of people as well as a handful of touring professionals. 

 

If you're going to contend that you have "better" perception than the handful of people who tried to help you solve an issue, it might be helpful to offer SOME kind of evidence that you actually know what you're talking about. 

 

But it's cool, I'll be a lollipop and a wanker for suggesting you offer anything to backup your superior taste.

[PierM]

Believe me, I'm not a fanboy and I also don't like the way other people here sometimes overreacts to product critics. It's quite annoying but this is the internet...so...

 

Said that, I still don't get the point for this thread. What you were expecting exactly? I mean, I guess you've done a forum search before start the thread (don't you?), to see if other people were getting your same "issue", and then hoping for a tweak and fix to try your own. But instead of that you started a thread with just all answers ready to whatever obvious question. You basically bounced everyone over here, every single suggestion, every single question, every guy trying to help....and now that you return it, you are still here talking about something you didn't like at first and you don't have anymore. I mean, seriously? All this time you are wasting here it's time you should spend in a better way, if not with your friends, with a Kemper, which by the way has a digital fizz. I'll start a thread on Kemper forums soon. (kidding I don't have a Kemper)

 

Ciao ciao.

[phil_m]

[shredzilla1964]

I was aware of the disingenuous nature of his postings as it all went down.

He knew the answers to his own questions before he even came here it wasn't help he was looking for.

My post appears to have hit a nerve :)

[hideout]

Maybe if I could just upload something directly I would but I'm pretty sure I have to link it to you tube or SoundCloud or something which means I have to create a new SoundCloud or YouTube cause I don't want some test thing on my music stuff. Whatever I shouldn't have to do that although I agree it would help.

Enjoy your pod

Now this I have to completely agree with. This is after all a music related forum so why we can't directly upload clips is completely rubbish. IMHO.

[jbuhajla]

This isn't the "I bet you can't replicate this tone" guy, is it?

 

If you don't like what you are getting out of your Helix and you can't get it to work for your needs, return it and get something else. (drops mic)

[bsd512]

As an exercise in trying to identify the behavior you're talking about, do you hear it in this demonstration? If you build these simple patches as he does, does yours sound (within reasonable expectation) like his?

 

 

 

At minute 1:44, that chord he hits, right before he mutes it you can hear what I'm talking about. As the note fades out there is this weird digital noise or artifact around those notes

 

 

 

I've listened to that over and over, through consumer headphones, studio headphones, studio monitors, and L3t's at various volumes, repeatedly. Hey, I was very curious, so sue me. :) The only thing I hear is a little vibrato at the end of that chord at 1:44 which was intentional. I cannot discern any thing digitally hairy or clipping or anything like that.

 

Not saying YOU don't hear something, but it must be extremely subtle.

 

There are humans with extreme sensitivity in certain senses. I'm thinking of folks like those people that get paid huge salaries as ice cream tasters for major companies for developing new flavors and quality control - they can taste things no other human can. And those folks with super-human senses of smell that perfume makers hire and actually sometimes get sickened by being in normal day-to-day environments with all the unpleasant smells that most of us can't perceive.

 

Maybe you missed your calling - Line 6 should consider hiring you as their "auditory quality" tester. Seriously!

[shanecgriffo]

noo! they might never get anything out of the development room lol

[joseroys]

I was aware of the disingenuous nature of his postings as it all went down.

He knew the answers to his own questions before he even came here it wasn't help he was looking for.

My post appears to have hit a nerve :)

Wow man. You really got it all figured out. Are you proud of yourself?

 

I wanted to confirm what I was hearing and if there was anyway to get rid of it you old fart. Now go back to figuring out the parts to sweet home Alabama or brown eyed girl.

[joseroys]

This isn't the "I bet you can't replicate this tone" guy, is it?

 

If you don't like what you are getting out of your Helix and you can't get it to work for your needs, return it and get something else. (drops mic)

Dropped mic? Oh my god. You guys.... Well if this is how you get your kicks. You're the man!

 

And no I'm not that guy. This is my first post. Great experience

[joseroys]

noo! they might never get anything out of the development room lol

Oh man. So burn. You're a natural

[joseroys]

noo! they might never get anything out of the development room lol

Oh man. So burn. You're a natural

[phil_m]

[PeterHamm]

 

 

I think I might pull that DVD out right now to celebrate this thread gone wrong...

[shanecgriffo]

Oh man. So burn. You're a natural

hey that was a compliment.. of sorts 😉

[shredzilla1964]

Lol peter...

Joseroys, I am close to having both of those songs figured out

[zooey]

Listened to that clean patch several times in good phones, didn't notice anything I really objected to, or that sounded fake or un-amp-like to me..

 

The other two tones, OTOH, have a bunch of top end hash that I'm not a fan of, whether real amps are like that or not. Kind of blowsey bottom end on those too, but Sean seems prone to that.

 

I don't understand how the clean is the most objectionable tone on there. Some of this may just boil down to different strokes.

[spikey]

Noise? heh, next he'll be complaining about the tuner in the editor...

[Fazer1k143]

OP, you aren't alone in hearing this undesirable noise, and the noise has regularly been referred to as 'squirrels' on The Gear Page. In the early days of having Helix I heard and disliked the noise too. With the current updates, though, the sounds seem much better and I suspect there has been some tweaking going on behind the scenes, plus it takes a while to become familiar with what each of the less familiar amp controls and various eq cuts can achieve. My Helix has never sounded better and I wouldn't want to be without it now. Update 2.20 is just around the corner as well. I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't be too hasty to write off the Helix and, as you got it second hand, be sure it is running the latest firmware before making a final judgment. Good luck - I hope you get it sounding to your taste.

[joseroys]

I just randomly found the amp test which asks you to identify the real amp vs fake amp and I somewhat surprisingly got 100%. I didn't even have to listen to the entire clips, I knew almost immediately. I wish I could post the screenshot of my results since I know you guys probably won't believe me.

 

So. I guess my ear is pretty good.

 

-drop mic. /s (sarcasm). I realise this is overall pretty petty but I've learned a lot

[joseroys]

OP, you aren't alone in hearing this undesirable noise, and the noise has regularly been referred to as 'squirrels' on The Gear Page. In the early days of having Helix I heard and disliked the noise too. With the current updates, though, the sounds seem much better and I suspect there has been some tweaking going on behind the scenes, plus it takes a while to become familiar with what each of the less familiar amp controls and various eq cuts can achieve. My Helix has never sounded better and I wouldn't want to be without it now. Update 2.20 is just around the corner as well. I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't be too hasty to write off the Helix and, as you got it second hand, be sure it is running the latest firmware before making a final judgment. Good luck - I hope you get it sounding to your taste.

Wow. Thanks very much. I honestly did not have a purpose when posting this other than ciriousity if; I was nuts and/or if there was any way to fix this. I was starting to feel a little nuts. :)

 

I dug around for "squirrels" and didnt find much but I'll try again. I did indeed update to the latest available firmware. I tweaked everything as much as I was willing to do and I'd rather play thru a cheap practice amp or vsts if need be.

 

Honestly it's nice to hear someone else experiencing this. I got a great deal on the helix but still at 1200 bucks, I'd rather cut a couple of tunes or get someone to a few mixes of my stuff or have 4 months of a rehearsal space. Or buy a fricking ubk kush or distressor or a vintage amp of my choice or down payment on a hand built custom guitar or a trip to Costa Rica or Vegas or whatever.

 

Thanks for posting this and wish you well.

[klangmaler]

 

...you were using the *S* word...

[joseroys]

 

...you were using the *S* word...

That is pretty hilarious. Thanks for the laugh this morning

[joseroys]

Ok. I promise this will be the last post on here. Hopefully :)

 

When I posted I had not found anything about what i heard and was not aware of "the squirrels". I very much appreciate learning about the squirrels. It was really the make it break it for me. It's not just the sound it crackle that you may hear in amps (not mine) but it's a"squirrel" that is present around the entire spectrum and to me feels like it affects the feel of the experience.

 

I will say that it's pretty gross and telling the way my first post in the line 6 firm after a decade at least if supporting and owning multiple devices. I think the attitude and the attempts to insult (although I was a bit guilty of it as well) is such a huge turn off. I'm very glad you do not hear the sound.

 

That being said. The sound is there and affects some of us greatly.

 

I will also add that my experience in this forum will affect my consideration of line 6 products in the future (yes, I'm sure you don't care). It almost feels line when you have a discussion with pro Donnie Trump folks.

 

Thanks all and thanks to those that were kind enough to give some advice. This did not go unnoticed and I do appreciate it.

 

Good night and best to all of you!

[fiftyshadesofjay]

Wow, this thread is all a bit much! I know It's pretty much done with but I'll add my two pence in.

I had the same issue the OP was describing, fizz, digital clipping, call it what you will. After speaking to various other users, getting the whole "It's not there, try a low and high cut, it's user error" etc I contacted my dealer and sent it to be looked at.

Turns out it was actually faulty and Line 6 confirmed it would need a part replacing.

The Helix is a great bit of kit but things go wrong and I think people need to realise that before getting all defensive. 

 

[joeduf]

I hear it too. I'm pretty sure I know exactly what you mean. As the note decays on low to mid gain distortion type patches, especially those without cabinet emulation (since I'm usually playing through a 4x12 or pair of 4x12s), you hear a fizz / sizzle / noise as the note decays. Normally subtle compare to a loudly played note but very prevalent compared to a softly played note

 

Noise gates will clamp down and remove the offending noise. It is being generated by the amp / distortion modeling.

 

I've found cabinet emulations / hi-cut EQ reduces the effect however at the expense of negatively altering your tone.

 

I play weekly and a place where the local sound guy tries to compensate for my "vintage tone" affliction (i like sounds that are NOT harsh, all high end crap) and as a result he boosts my mid highs and highs through the roof from the mixing board. Here the noise, as a note decays is COMPLETELY intolerable...almost sounds like radio static through the house PA which, is killer RCF stuff for the record.

 

I can try to get some live audio samples (not from the interface itself which can amplify other issues a la USB / monitor interference, etc.). It's difficult and will most likely require a condenser. It is important to hear the sound in context...Helix, patch with no cabinet emulation at all, into power amp, into large speaker. No 4 cable method or interference antenna necessary to make the noise appear.

 

I've tried Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Epiphone, and others through the Helix and they all exhibit the same issue. I've tried many different types of guitar cables and even my trusty Line 6 G90. The problem is NOT external to Helix. The note decay of some amp distortion sounds are jagged and in a bad way. You don't get this from tube amps.

 

I love my Helix. Some amps and patches sound amazing! But this issue is real and can be a show killer. If you try to compensate with noise gates then you end up chopping off the tail of notes far earlier then intended.

 

I've tried filtered powered versus straight into a wall with known good and known bad grounds. The problem in apparent in all situations. Higher gain / careful listening to a note as it decays is crucial to understanding the problem. Clean sounds are not susceptible to this type of noise. Extremely high gain sounds can be if play lightly and left to decay without a noise gate, but you usually don't "play" a high gain sounds that way. It's low to mid gain distortions.

 

All I need to clarify it is not with all amp models / settings. I will attempt to begin compilation of notes, amps, models, patches, including guitar used, cable type, power conditions, etc. to help. This "noise" is driving me crazy in live situations. I've actually considered not using my Helix live because it can be so bad.

[joeduf]

I bought my Helix Rack from Sweetwater the day they had their first shipments arrive last year. How do I tell if my hardware needs to have something replaced like the people above?

[joseroys]

I hear it too. I'm pretty sure I know exactly what you mean. As the note decays on low to mid gain distortion type patches, especially those without cabinet emulation (since I'm usually playing through a 4x12 or pair of 4x12s), you hear a fizz / sizzle / noise as the note decays. Normally subtle compare to a loudly played note but very prevalent compared to a softly played note

 

Noise gates will clamp down and remove the offending noise. It is being generated by the amp / distortion modeling.

 

I've found cabinet emulations / hi-cut EQ reduces the effect however at the expense of negatively altering your tone.

 

I play weekly and a place where the local sound guy tries to compensate for my "vintage tone" affliction (i like sounds that are NOT harsh, all high end crap) and as a result he boosts my mid highs and highs through the roof from the mixing board. Here the noise, as a note decays is COMPLETELY intolerable...almost sounds like radio static through the house PA which, is killer RCF stuff for the record.

 

I can try to get some live audio samples (not from the interface itself which can amplify other issues a la USB / monitor interference, etc.). It's difficult and will most likely require a condenser. It is important to hear the sound in context...Helix, patch with no cabinet emulation at all, into power amp, into large speaker. No 4 cable method or interference antenna necessary to make the noise appear.

 

I've tried Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Epiphone, and others through the Helix and they all exhibit the same issue. I've tried many different types of guitar cables and even my trusty Line 6 G90. The problem is NOT external to Helix. The note decay of some amp distortion sounds are jagged and in a bad way. You don't get this from tube amps.

 

I love my Helix. Some amps and patches sound amazing! But this issue is real and can be a show killer. If you try to compensate with noise gates then you end up chopping off the tail of notes far earlier then intended.

 

I've tried filtered powered versus straight into a wall with known good and known bad grounds. The problem in apparent in all situations. Higher gain / careful listening to a note as it decays is crucial to understanding the problem. Clean sounds are not susceptible to this type of noise. Extremely high gain sounds can be if play lightly and left to decay without a noise gate, but you usually don't "play" a high gain sounds that way. It's low to mid gain distortions.

 

All I need to clarify it is not with all amp models / settings. I will attempt to begin compilation of notes, amps, models, patches, including guitar used, cable type, power conditions, etc. to help. This "noise" is driving me crazy in live situations. I've actually considered not using my Helix live because it can be so bad.

Whatever dude. It's obviously not for you. Just return it, you and your "golden ears". Lololol.

 

Yes, it's nice to get some perspective is all. I have good ears but I don't think it's necessary to hear this shotty noise.

 

Here's my serious issue with this whole thing.

 

I. Do.not. Believe. They built this thing from the ground up. I think it's the same old BS from all software companies. Trust me. I know. I've been there. There's more money in toating new features and re badging stuff than fixing problems. At the end of the day, you (we) all will keep buying shif. Because it's new. And that is s problem.

 

This same exact sound is present in the xt, HD and helix model. I think it's the same fukingh software. Sue me. It's hard to believe that this was produced in purpose.

 

No offense to anyone that lovez this product. But it's an insult honestly to be taken advantage of like this, again and again - and again.

 

Thank the frigin Lord for guitar center (first time guitar center coming thru). That I could return this thing which wassnt as much the case back in the day. Was much harder to return stuff.

 

Anyways. I'm quite mad about this whole debacle. But, I returned it- so - that's good.

 

But honestly- screw all the folks trying to pretend it's not there. It is there.

 

Amen and good night

[PeterHamm]

​

Whatever dude. It's obviously not for you. Just return it, you and your "golden ears". Lololol.

Yes, it's nice to get some perspective is all. I have good ears but I don't think it's necessary to hear this shotty noise.

Here's my serious issue with this whole thing.

I. Do.not. Believe. They built this thing from the ground up. I think it's the same old BS from all software companies. Trust me. I know. I've been there. There's more money in toating new features and re badging stuff than fixing problems. At the end of the day, you (we) all will keep buying shif. Because it's new. And that is s problem.

This same exact sound is present in the xt, HD and helix model. I think it's the same fukingh software. Sue me. It's hard to believe that this was produced in purpose.

No offense to anyone that lovez this product. But it's an insult honestly to be taken advantage of like this, again and again - and again.

Thank the frigin Lord for guitar center (first time guitar center coming thru). That I could return this thing which wassnt as much the case back in the day. Was much harder to return stuff.

Anyways. I'm quite mad about this whole debacle. But, I returned it- so - that's good.

But honestly- screw all the folks trying to pretend it's not there. It is there.

Amen and good night

 

 

Well, you never were able to show us a patch you made on your unit that was giving you fits. If so, I know for me, I might have been able to mitigate it quickly and easily.

 

Hope it all works out for you eventually.

[joeduf]

Whatever dude. It's obviously not for you. Just return it, you and your "golden ears". Lololol.

 

I just joined this thread last night. I haven't previously been part of your emotional argument. I'm agreeing with you!...or do you not understand that? Read my post! I'm trying to solve the problem too. I actually will take time to make recordings, post patches, take notes on setup, as I will solve this problem eventually. I came on here looking for help from other Helix users. I was more curious if you or anyone else on this thread or Helix forum altogether had hardware repairs that solved the issue.

 

I'm still in process of collecting data to see if certain amp models and certain parameters mitigate the problem. Right now I can't say if the Hotrodded JCM has less of "the issue" with hum, sag and bias cranked, as opposed to completely off. I will report back to the benefit of you and anyone else what I manage to discover.

 

In the meantime save your emotion for your music. This is a technical issue which requires troubleshooting skills and patience. If you can't help or refuse to help then kindly refrain from clouding the forum.

[joseroys]

I just joined this thread last night. I haven't previously been part of your emotional argument. I'm agreeing with you!...or do you not understand that? Read my post! I'm trying to solve the problem too. I actually will take time to make recordings, post patches, take notes on setup, as I will solve this problem eventually. I came on here looking for help from other Helix users. I was more curious if you or anyone else on this thread or Helix forum altogether had hardware repairs that solved the issue.

 

I'm still in process of collecting data to see if certain amp models and certain parameters mitigate the problem. Right now I can't say if the Hotrodded JCM has less of "the issue" with hum, sag and bias cranked, as opposed to completely off. I will report back to the benefit of you and anyone else what I manage to discover.

 

In the meantime save your emotion for your music. This is a technical issue which requires troubleshooting skills and patience. If you can't help or refuse to help then kindly refrain from clouding the forum.

Sorry man. That was totally meant as sarcasm.

 

But good for you that you have the time and patience for it. Good luck

[shredzilla1964]

Fascinating...

[Guitarmaniac64]

OK- maybe I'm beginning to understand............ did you say you were using an apogee interface? Why?  The Helix is its own interface.

And your headphones - are they plugged into the Helix or somewhere else in your setup?

Plug the headphones straight into the Helix if you aren't and tell us what you hear.

Just to inform you there is people who really like to use a better interface than using Line 6 built in interface..

 

I almost never use Helix interface the only time i use it is when i record a take and want to have a reamp track othewise i run it XLR out to my own studio interface and frankly it sounds way better than using Helix interface

[Guitarmaniac64]

Wow. Thanks very much. I honestly did not have a purpose when posting this other than ciriousity if; I was nuts and/or if there was any way to fix this. I was starting to feel a little nuts. :)

 

I dug around for "squirrels" and didnt find much but I'll try again. I did indeed update to the latest available firmware. I tweaked everything as much as I was willing to do and I'd rather play thru a cheap practice amp or vsts if need be.

 

Honestly it's nice to hear someone else experiencing this. I got a great deal on the helix but still at 1200 bucks, I'd rather cut a couple of tunes or get someone to a few mixes of my stuff or have 4 months of a rehearsal space. Or buy a fricking ubk kush or distressor or a vintage amp of my choice or down payment on a hand built custom guitar or a trip to Costa Rica or Vegas or whatever.

 

Thanks for posting this and wish you well.

Yes those squirells are a little bit annoying

But whats even more fun is that you say the high gain sounds is fine when it is not fine at all

I cant believe you didnt hear that?

Well we all have our favourite guitar tone and we all go for that sound

I can live with the squirell sound thats for sure but i cant live without a very good high gain sound thats why i choose my real amp for high gain instead or choose a Helix ampblock and the poweramp on my real amp.

Its the same with delays reverbs etc and i guess you wont find a digital all in solution that will have everything fixed so it sounds like the "real deal" i also use Helix only with IR the built in cab is the one who does that noise not the amp modeling..

Still on some amps you hear that digital artifacts even with IR,s so i think they didnt rewritten all models..

[FlyingsCool]

This guy sounds just like the guy I blocked on TGP over a year ago before Helix was even released... Exactly.  Not sure why you guys kept feeding the troll....

[steevo1977]

No example of the noise was given therefore no chitz were given. Another example of this community pandering to obvious time wasters.