Tips for getting the best from FRFR

[GazzaBloom]

After much consideration I purchased a Yamaha DXR10 at the weekend, to go with my Helix.

 

Do you have any general tips, advice or recommended settings for getting the best most amp like sound from an FRFR solution?

[rvroberts]

The standard Global EQ or per preset EQ - that will be something like a reasonably steep roll off at maybe 100Hz (your milage will vary - you might not need quiet as much with the 10") And a highend rolloff at somewhere around 5KHz - again adjust to taste.  I've also found some were in the upper mid, a bit of a boost will help you cut through. All dependant on your speakers and your taste.

I've not found any limitation on doing that with global EQ - I still get bright glassy strat sounds and fat rock tones with that as a global - some prefer to do it patch by patch............

I run stereo - but if you just use one - run it off your left 1/4"  and send the left XLR to FOH (same EQ).

Hope this helps you.

[DunedinDragon]

I own two DXR12's.  I go from the 1/4 inch L/Mono out of the Helix into the L/Mono in on the DXR.  If you intend to use it in the floor monitor position like I do you should select the "Monitor" position on the D-contour switch to correct for bass buildup.  I also set the High Pass Filter (HPF) to 125Hz which tends to reduce the need for lo cut filters on my patches in the Helix.  If you're not getting enough bass response you could drop the HPF to 100 Hz. Bear in mind, however, that the FOH speaker system may or may not have the same cutoff points on the their crossover or lo cut filters, so it's not a bad idea to set up your lo cuts on the helix separately just in case.   I keep the Level on the Line input set at unity which is the 12 o'clock position and control my output via the large Main Volume knob on the Helix.  And that's about it.

 

For your reference, I've included the response profile characteristics of the DXR series speaker line below.  You'll notice there tends to be quite a bump on the low end down around the 100 Hz area as well as one up above about 9000Hz.  You can see that both of those are somewhat mitigated on the graph when you're using the D-Contour in the Monitor position.

 

There really aren't any hard and fast rules about high and low cuts since that really depends on what type of guitar you're using, what amp model is being used, what cabinets, what mic's, and the position of those mics.  That's why I don't do anything with the global settings in that regard and just adjust it per patch.

 

Personally I find I have to do more with the high and low cuts with the Helix stock cabinets than I do when using certain types of 3rd party IRs.  If the bass isn't sounding tight enough for your taste you can raise your low cut up to 130 or 140 to eliminate that in most cases, but raising the Bias on the amp can help as well.

 

The high cuts are much more fluid depending on the guitar, amp model, cab, mic, and mic placement.  As I said I tend to use less high cuts with certain IR's such as OwnHammer and the Celestion IRs.  With OwnHammer IRs I tend to use mic placements in the 5, 6, or 7 positions which are midpoint out from the cone toward the edge.  With the Celestions I use either the Balanced, Dark, Dark2, or Fat positions.  Again all of these are highly depended on the type of guitar and amp model.  There are cases such as when I use a Les Paul with the German Mahadeva (Bogner Shiva) model paired up with the Celestion 2x12 Alnico Blue Balanced IR that I don't even use a high cut.  With brighter setups such as a Telecaster going through a Soldono using Celestion Creambacks I generally end up cutting highs at around 3.8 Khz.  So all of this will have to come down to your ears and what you want the audience to hear.

 

The good news about the DXR series is they tend to have the same response profile as 90% of the modern PA speakers on the market, so what you setup and are hearing from the DXR will be very much like what the audience will be hearing out front.

 

https://www.yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/downloads/block_level/dxr_frequency_response.pdf

[PeterHamm]

Good choice, especially if it sounds a lot like the PA you play through.

 

Tweak at gig level. Period. Otherwise it'll sound wrong when you play live.

Don't fix with global EQ. Fix with EQ in the patch. Global EQ is for fixing the room. hi and low cuts in your cab are the first place to start.

 

You won't get "amp like sounds" with an FRFR, though. You'll get the whole signal chain, and that's okay!

[rzumwalt]

The standard Global EQ or per preset EQ - that will be something like a reasonably steep roll off at maybe 100Hz (your milage will vary - you might not need quiet as much with the 10") And a highend rolloff at somewhere around 5KHz - again adjust to taste.  I've also found some were in the upper mid, a bit of a boost will help you cut through. All dependant on your speakers and your taste.

I've not found any limitation on doing that with global EQ - I still get bright glassy strat sounds and fat rock tones with that as a global - some prefer to do it patch by patch............

I run stereo - but if you just use one - run it off your left 1/4"  and send the left XLR to FOH (same EQ).

Hope this helps you.

 

The mono version above describes my setup very well. I get very good results for my purposes. I would only add that I roll off a fair deal of the highs above 5K because, for the most part they only contribute to noise and not to the guitar tone. I use the JBL EON 10", which has onboard EQ, I'm not sure whether the Yamaha does, but hopefully this will be helpful to you as well. I basically rolled off highs until it affected my tone, and then kept it just a hair above that. To the extent I don't need the highs to make my signal sound right, reducing highs just helps get rid of the unwanted noise.

 

Good choice, especially if it sounds a lot like the PA you play through.

 

Tweak at gig level. Period. Otherwise it'll sound wrong when you play live.

 

Don't fix with global EQ. Fix with EQ in the patch. Global EQ is for fixing the room. hi and low cuts in your cab are the first place to start.

 

You won't get "amp like sounds" with an FRFR, though. You'll get the whole signal chain, and that's okay!

 

But also pay attention to PeterHamm's suggestion not to fix global EQ but fix it in the patch. What I described was to make the PA speaker sound as good as possible. That doesn't mean it will make each patch sound as good as possible, and it does nothing for the signal going to FOH. 

[PeterHamm]

...That doesn't mean it will make each patch sound as good as possible, and it does nothing for the signal going to FOH. 

 

 

And... the signal going to FOH should be your first priority. Love your audience!

[rzumwalt]

And... the signal going to FOH should be your first priority. Love your audience!

 

Right...that...If I followed that advice, I'd have to just mute my signal altogether.

[MusicLaw]

Great choice on the speaker!

 

All the foregoing EQ suggestions are dependent on your signal source, instrument, pickups, etc. For passive pickup electric guitar there's not much below 100Hz nor above 4kHz you'll likely want to send to the Yamaha's. For Bass, Acoustic, Keys, Vocals, guitars, etc. ignore the previous sentence.

 

If you're only running a single Yamaha DXR10, be sure its Link switch remains set to MONO.

 

Other than that, go with what your ears tell you.

 

I have mine set for Line Level with their Level controls at 12 o'clock position.

 

To avoid any Ground Loop noise, be sure to power the Yamaha and Helix from the same AC feed.

[spikey]

Right...that...If I followed that advice, I'd have to just mute my signal altogether.

 

LOL + 1