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synth tracking


shanecgriffo
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Guys, let's get a little perspective here. The Helix isn't very good at doing the Synth stuff but I doubt that the EHX Synth 9 could do what the Helix does. You can't really compare the two because they're two completely different animals. The EHX is a single purpose device specifically designed to do what it does. It's hardly fair to expect the Helix to do the excellent modeling that it does AND do the Synth stuff as well as a dedicated Synth box like the EHX.

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Guys, let's get a little perspective here. The Helix isn't very good at doing the Synth stuff but I doubt that the EHX Synth 9 could do what the Helix does. You can't really compare the two because they're two completely different animals. The EHX is a single purpose device specifically designed to do what it does. It's hardly fair to expect the Helix to do the excellent modeling that it does AND do the Synth stuff as well as a dedicated Synth box like the EHX.

i dont think it's too much to expect better tracking.. heck there's an app that is 3+ years old, on my phone (midiguitar) that does polyphonic tracking from guitar input really quite well with not a heap of cpu hit. (it runs well on iphone 4s while directing midi output to other synth apps even)

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Guys, let's get a little perspective here. The Helix isn't very good at doing the Synth stuff but I doubt that the EHX Synth 9 could do what the Helix does. You can't really compare the two because they're two completely different animals. The EHX is a single purpose device specifically designed to do what it does. It's hardly fair to expect the Helix to do the excellent modeling that it does AND do the Synth stuff as well as a dedicated Synth box like the EHX.

 

It's mostly about quality of the algorithms. I don't think Helix has any lack of processing powa to do same or even better than that stomp. It's for sure true that EHX are masters on that area.

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It's just a shame that EHX haven't taken on board MIDI for patch or parameter changes - the xxx 9 pedals are desperate for that level of control, but EHX either want you to bend down and fiddle while on stage while in the middle of a song, or want you to buy as many units as you want different sounds.

 

For the money, floor space and complexity that requires you would do better to buy a Roland VR-09 and plug it into an FX return on Helix

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It's just a shame that EHX haven't taken on board MIDI for patch or parameter changes - the xxx 9 pedals are desperate for that level of control, but EHX either want you to bend down and fiddle while on stage while in the middle of a song, or want you to buy as many units as you want different sounds.

 

For the money, floor space and complexity that requires you would do better to buy a Roland VR-09 and plug it into an FX return on Helix

Yep... This is almost exactly what I said on a thread about this pedal on TGP. I used to have the B9, and I still have the Mel9, and I like the sounds these pedals can produce. But they're really kind of unnecessarily hamstrung by not having the ability to save presets. Even if you could save a preset for each instrument along the rotary dial, that would be helpful; but you can't even do that. So I pretty just always stick to one machine the whole time. If they managed to combine into a TimeLine-esque multi-FX pedal that offered MIDI control, it would be amazing. I don't know that EHX has ever made anything that's MIDI controllable, though.

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It's mostly about quality of the algorithms. I don't think Helix has any lack of processing powa to do same or even better than that stomp. It's for sure true that EHX are masters on that area.

 

 

i dont think it's too much to expect better tracking.. heck there's an app that is 3+ years old, on my phone (midiguitar) that does polyphonic tracking from guitar input really quite well with not a heap of cpu hit. (it runs well on iphone 4s while directing midi output to other synth apps even)

 

 

Well, I suppose when you're using a synth sound, you're not likely to be using an amp block and/or cab sims so, maybe, maybe...

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Yep... This is almost exactly what I said on a thread about this pedal on TGP. I used to have the B9, and I still have the Mel9, and I like the sounds these pedals can produce. But they're really kind of unnecessarily hamstrung by not having the ability to save presets. Even if you could save a preset for each instrument along the rotary dial, that would be helpful; but you can't even do that. So I pretty just always stick to one machine the whole time. If they managed to combine into a TimeLine-esque multi-FX pedal that offered MIDI control, it would be amazing. I don't know that EHX has ever made anything that's MIDI controllable, though.

The HOG2 is MIDI controllable, both in terms of preset recall and in parameter control. So, EHX definitely has the know-how to do it. I'm guessing that the price point for a ***9 device with MIDI control would be in the HOG's neighbourhood and they might not sell enough units to make it worthwhile. That being said, I'd be willing to shell out HOG2 money - or more - for a unit that had MIDI + all the ***9 units.

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My Line 6 Vetta had some great synth stuff with very good tracking. I love Line 6, but I've often wondered why they have almost systematically abandoned some great stuff from their previous products when they brought out new products. Maybe they could take a look at the Vetta's synth filters and figure out what they did. 

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Have line6 ever responded about why their tracking is so poor and if they will improve it?

 

Would be great if ididnt have to set up my whammy pedal every time, save me some space on stage

 

Awhile back, I think it was version 2.0 firmware, they put in a new tracking algorithm for the pitch blocks, but then took it out because some people reported problems. I imagine they use the same method for tracking on the synth block. So anyway, at one point they did try something and they obviously know about the lacking tracking.

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When I went to the booth at NAMM, I asked about the pitch tracking, and the guy I talked to said "that's really hard." It was a disappointing answer, I'm really curious about the less CPU intensive pitch tracking mentioned in the posts surrounding this next update and whether it improves the polyphonic tracking. I'm less interested in the synth sounds than the pitch shifting. Synth sounds from a lot of the guitar pedals are a bit too rigid and cheesy to use. Polyphonic tracking is something Boss, EHX, Eventide, iPhone apps and more have been able to do well. I don't know what the hold up is, but this is the only additional feature that I've been actively bothered by with the Helix.

 

Needless to say, I'm still enjoying the lollipop out of my Helix and just last night was up until 1am showing it off to a friend. So I don't want to be all negative.

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I actually think only EHX and Digitech really nailed it, aside from Midiguitar phone and OS X app and TC Electronic subnup.. Eventide sucks at polyphonic tracking, otherwise my H9 would be the go to solution for my needs.. and boss.. haven't tried their synth pedal, but the tracking in their pitch pedals is just as prone to glitches as Eventide or Helix. Or have I missed something? I just know I miss my POG2..

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I actually think only EHX and Digitech really nailed it, aside from Midiguitar phone and OS X app and TC Electronic subnup.. Eventide sucks at polyphonic tracking, otherwise my H9 would be the go to solution for my needs.. and boss.. haven't tried their synth pedal, but the tracking in their pitch pedals is just as prone to glitches as Eventide or Helix. Or have I missed something? I just know I miss my POG2..

 

Boss's SY-300 does polyphonic pitch tracking, with more involved synthesis.  Their pitch shifting pedal algorithms may have a bit of warble, but they hit the notes and have sound musical. It doesn't glitch the way the Helix does where it jumps back and forth between notes. I could be wrong about Eventide, but do the Harmonizer racks struggle with pitchshifting? I feel like I've heard useable pitch shifting in their early rack units. 

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