Considering buying the Helix, need advice for my situation!

[MG93]

Hi guys! Brand new to the forum and have been taking a serious look at buying a Helix unit, need some advice to see if this cool piece of gear is a good fit for me!

 

A little about myself, I've been playing for 7 years and mainly play in a cover band in my town. We play in all kinds of venues, from big stages with robust sound systems to little gigs where we bring our own PA set-up.

 

I'm drawn to the Helix because it seems like an affordable way to get all the cool sounds I want for my gigs, while also being easy to transport. I also don't have to shell out thousands of dollars on different amps and pedals in order to sound like Jimi Hendrix in one song to Billy Joe Armstrong in the next.

 

My question is A) how will my current setup, if I add the Helix, work at these venues and B ) would I have to invest more money in a FRFR speaker to make this thing legit?

 

A lot of these forum posts are aimed at guys who are serious about recording in their home studio's. I am not one of them. I want to be able to play this thing in my room, edit the sounds on my laptop, and then take that sound to rehearsal or the show and have it sound good.

 

Right now, we've been mic-ing up my Peavy Classic 30 or just playing through it no mic for the shows. I know there is the ability to send it right to the FX return to bypass the preamp. Will that sound good?

 

Additionally, if that wouldn't work, would I need a FRFR speaker to sound good? What would having one of those look like for live shows? Am I able to do direct in to the house and bypass the speakers?

 

As you can tell I'm fairly new to this side of guitar technology. My life previously has been to plug my guitar into my pedals and then into my combo amp and just rock out. Need some help to see if I can make this Helix work for my world.

 

Thanks in advance for the help!!!!

[MusicLaw]

You would certainly still be able to use your Peavy Classic 30 with the Helix. You could do so in 4 Cable Method or simply feed Helix's FX Send to your amp's FX Return. You'll find Helix's signal routing to be a breeze to decide what suits you best. Only you can decide what sounds good.

 

And, you can certainly feed the FOH from your Helix.

 

Whether you opt to add a FRFR (or two) would be up to you. Many have chosen to do so, but it is by no means essential.

[strabes]

The most important issue to figure out is: once you get a helix, how will you monitor yourself? A lot of people use an FRFR due to the flexibility it offers over a traditional guitar amp's fx loop return, but there's no wrong way to do it. I would start by disabling the power amp and cab sim blocks on your helix and just running a preamp block into your amp's fx loop return, and mic'ing it like usual.

 

Once you're comfortable with that, you could start splitting the signal in the helix and sending a modeled power amp and cab direct to FOH while still using  your amp's power amp and cab for stage volume.

 

The next step would be to ditch the amp and cab altogether and switch to an FRFR, which would just be making the modeled mic'd signal from the Helix louder. 

[ncockerill]

I can speak of my own experience, which has been very positive.   Prior to the Helix, I had other modelers (PODxt, HD500, ElevenRack) – and played these in various combinations through my Bogner Alchemist 2x12.  Four-cable method, FX loops, guitar input --- you name it --- the options are many.  All have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

Since getting the Helix, I pretty much just use it……..and it alone.  Straight to FOH --- but I use IEM so don’t have to worry about FRFR speakers for stage monitoring.  At home, I have a pair of JBL LSR305’s that are pretty good.  But FRFR cabs are getting more affordable (and surely you probably have some gear collecting dust that could be traded in?).

 

As a cover band guitarist --- like you I need the ability to go from Jimi to Jimmy, from Eric C to Eric J, SRV to Gilmour, and on and on.  The Helix has made this possible, and just as important………..EASY.

 

Go for it.  I would imagine very few Helixers regret their purchase.

[rvroberts]

I'm going to slightly disagree with the above...........Well not totally!

I find that the great range of sound you can get including post processing stuff after the amp makes the FRFR approach a total winner.

So the above is a nice easy way into using the Helix, but leads people to take a lot more time to really discover its true power.

Also, if you use an FRFR box as a personal monitor, you are not very loud out front - which means you can get a good mix even in a smaller venue.

Obviously you might find yourself in a venue where the PA is just not up to any more than vocals - in which case you would need to use your FRFR box like a normal amp and face it out to the audience - but there is still no problem with that.

Let me say that with some decent global EQ (from the Helix), any decent self powered PA box can do the FRFR job - obviously there are better solutions as you move up the dollars, but something like a 12" with horn Behringer or better is totally OK in my experience - I even know people who just turn up and plug into the PA foldback - although, I'd personally never want to leave my sound and playing experience totally in the hands of your average sound guy!

It all gets down to your own thinking process.

The real concern seems to be experience with real amps and pedals, and some idea of the studio experience so you can be comfortable with exploiting the possibilities of the box.

Some people end up just using their Helix as an expensive effects box - which I personally still think is a waste.

Using the 4 cable method, you get a bit better experience, but I personally think you are seriously limiting the range of sound possible - which, depending on what you play and your own taste might or might not be a good or bad thing.

To just remind everyone that the search for the ultimate sound for every track is kind of secondary to just playing well and having a good clean, semi clean, and drive sound, have a look at Tim Pierce doing the Grammy's - gives me stage fright!

But he's obviously using his Matchless and a few pedals - but playing so well!

Love my Helix, but really........he still nails it!

[ricstudioc]

And another "go for it" - it's truly hard to see how you could not be satisfied.  Myself I run 2 Alto TS110A FRFR's - they're only about 250 each, and the newer 210's have a more symmetric cabinet.  Personally I run mine in front of me like floor slants, tho in some smaller places I've set them up behind me more conventionally.

 

For now - do the Amp Return on your Classic thing, you should rock.  I started with FRFR because I also use a Variax for acoustic on stage, the FRFR is much better for that sort of thing.

 

I've been doing this for something like 45 years - and have NEVER been happier with a purchase, musically.  Whether on the larger board with outboard FX, or just backpacked in to use by itself, Helix has changed how I go about all this....

[strabes]

I'm going to slightly disagree with the above...........Well not totally!

I find that the great range of sound you can get including post processing stuff after the amp makes the FRFR approach a total winner.

So the above is a nice easy way into using the Helix, but leads people to take a lot more time to really discover its true power.

Also, if you use an FRFR box as a personal monitor, you are not very loud out front - which means you can get a good mix even in a smaller venue.

Obviously you might find yourself in a venue where the PA is just not up to any more than vocals - in which case you would need to use your FRFR box like a normal amp and face it out to the audience - but there is still no problem with that.

Let me say that with some decent global EQ (from the Helix), any decent self powered PA box can do the FRFR job - obviously there are better solutions as you move up the dollars, but something like a 12" with horn Behringer or better is totally OK in my experience - I even know people who just turn up and plug into the PA foldback - although, I'd personally never want to leave my sound and playing experience totally in the hands of your average sound guy!

It all gets down to your own thinking process.

The real concern seems to be experience with real amps and pedals, and some idea of the studio experience so you can be comfortable with exploiting the possibilities of the box.

Some people end up just using their Helix as an expensive effects box - which I personally still think is a waste.

Using the 4 cable method, you get a bit better experience, but I personally think you are seriously limiting the range of sound possible - which, depending on what you play and your own taste might or might not be a good or bad thing.

To just remind everyone that the search for the ultimate sound for every track is kind of secondary to just playing well and having a good clean, semi clean, and drive sound, have a look at Tim Pierce doing the Grammy's - gives me stage fright!

But he's obviously using his Matchless and a few pedals - but playing so well!

Love my Helix, but really........he still nails it!

 

What an awesome video! ACDC with a strat on the grammys. Amazing.

[DunedinDragon]

I'm in pretty much the same boat with the OP in that 99%  of what I do is live, and we cover a very wide range of styles so something like the Helix is critical in allowing me to go from a Santana sound to a Joe Walsh sound to a Queen sound to a George Benson sound to a Keith Urban sound to a Chet Atkins sound to a James Brown sound....and so forth.  And have them all sound authentic.  The key that allows this type of flexibility is based on the ability to use the correct amp, correct cabinet, correct mic and of course correct effects for each different type of style.

 

Could you use the effect return into the Peavey to achieve this.  Yes, definitely.  But there is an inherent limitation.  The Peavey cabinet is going to add it's own flavor and coloration to the sound of the Helix cab and mic models since it's not an FRFR system.  Likewise, if you want to go direct from the Helix to the FOH, the sound on the FOH speakers will be different from the Peavey because they are FRFR speakers and will accurately represent what's in the Helix patch including the modeled amp, cabinet, and mic.  Of course you could opt to simply mic the Peavey cabinet, but the output of the Helix signal chain is a mic'd cabinet.  Therefore you would be mic'ing a representation of a mic'd cabinet.

 

These are the reasons I and others like me opt to use FRFR speakers.  When I design my patch I know I'm hearing an accurate representation of what I designed into the patch.  It won't get any additional tonal treatment or colorations.  I also know with some degree of certainty that what I hear will be what my audience hears whether I'm going direct from my Helix to the board, or simply using the FRFR speaker in a smaller venue.  It will sound the same every time regardless of the setup.

 

The main consideration in going this direction is you have to think about your tone differently.  The way I look at it is I'm bringing a studio level quality tone to the live stage.  That is not the same as a traditional live amp sound.  It's a polished studio sound, and some people have a hard time adjusting to that.  The audience doesn't have a problem with it because they're used to hearing polished studio sound, but it is annoying to some players that can't adjust to the difference.

 

Bottom line is, you have to figure out what it is YOU want and need out of the Helix to decide if FRFR is for you or not.

[spikey]

Tim Pierce- damn...  B)

[jbuhajla]

I play live once per week, non-professionally. Since getting the Helix, I have sold all of my effects, but kept a couple of amps. I grab a guitar or two and my Helix rig, and I am off. I only play direct to FOH and monitor the whole mix through in-ear monitor system. I create a preset per song, and use snapshots within each preset. Any tone, any sound, any effect, any time and I can carry it in one hand. 

 

Buy it from Sweetwater and you can return it in 30 days if you don't like it. 

[johnplanetz]

Question for you guys (@ncockerill, @jbuhajla) playing live direct to FOH and using IEM without a stage monitor:

I'm about to take the leap to helix. My current setup is hd500x into the righteously kickass but totally overkill blackstar stage 60. I've got the amp master volume on like 2 (not super loud - it's mic'd up into the mixer and I'm wearing IEM's). But I love the ability to get musical feedback during high gain solos, etc.

 

Are you guys able to achieve that kind of feedback without any stage monitoring of your guitar sound? I was assuming i would need a stage monitor like an eon610 or ts210 just for this reason. But it would be simpler to go without!

 

John

[HonestOpinion]

Question for you guys (@ncockerill, @jbuhajla) playing live direct to FOH and using IEM without a stage monitor:

I'm about to take the leap to helix. My current setup is hd500x into the righteously kickass but totally overkill blackstar stage 60. I've got the amp master volume on like 2 (not super loud - it's mic'd up into the mixer and I'm wearing IEM's). But I love the ability to get musical feedback during high gain solos, etc.

 

Are you guys able to achieve that kind of feedback without any stage monitoring of your guitar sound? I was assuming i would need a stage monitor like an eon610 or ts210 just for this reason. But it would be simpler to go without!

 

John

 

You need some kind of stage monitor or speaker(leaning into the PA at FOH ;) ) you can face the guitar towards to get proper feedback.

[jbuhajla]

Question for you guys (@ncockerill, @jbuhajla) playing live direct to FOH and using IEM without a stage monitor:

I'm about to take the leap to helix. My current setup is hd500x into the righteously kickass but totally overkill blackstar stage 60. I've got the amp master volume on like 2 (not super loud - it's mic'd up into the mixer and I'm wearing IEM's). But I love the ability to get musical feedback during high gain solos, etc.

 

Are you guys able to achieve that kind of feedback without any stage monitoring of your guitar sound? I was assuming i would need a stage monitor like an eon610 or ts210 just for this reason. But it would be simpler to go without!

 

John

No you can't get real feedback without sound waves vibrating your strings and interacting with your pickups. I haven't been able so simulate feedback just within the Helix, yet.