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Help setting up 2x L/R outs. 1 with speaker IR, 1 without.


rick_hollis
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Hi all, I'm trying to configure my Helix rack so I can send 1 pair of stereo outputs to Front of House with speaker IR's, and another pair of stereo outs without the IR block to my power amp and cabs.

 

The problem I'm running in to is that Helix will only run a mono speaker IR so if I split the signal at the end of the chain to 2 seperate outputs and put the IR block on one of them, it collapses that path to mono.

 

I could introduce the IR block earlier in the chain and put stereo effects after it but then I can't feed my on stage cabs a signal without the IR being in the chain. 

 

Is there a simple way around this I am overlooking?

 

Thank you,

 

Rick

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I guess you could use the Helix Dual Cab block instead of an IR?  I'm pretty sure that would preserve the stereo path.

 

A lot of people find that Helix's cabs can be tweaked to sound as good as third party IRs - and in a live gig situation I'd say the differences would not be worth worrying about.

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That would seem like the solution. I did try that but was less than impressed with the cab block. I'll try and tweak it and see if I can get it more 3D sounding like an IR.

 

 Be sure to set your high and low cuts. And get a couple speakers that work together on the L and R. AND... use a different mic for each (I recommend the ribbons)... finally, mess with early reflections and mic distance.

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Awesome, PeterHamm. I'll give it a shot. It would be nice if I can make the built in cabs work for me in stereo. 

It would be awesome if Line 6 made it possible to run 3rd party IR's in stereo as well. I'd happily give up processing power for this option as I am running external preamps.....coz you know, analogue ;)

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Awesome, PeterHamm. I'll give it a shot. It would be nice if I can make the built in cabs work for me in stereo. 

It would be awesome if Line 6 made it possible to run 3rd party IR's in stereo as well. I'd happily give up processing power for this option as I am running external preamps.....coz you know, analogue ;)

 

 

Add a split and you can do 3rd party IRs in stereo if you want. Quite a resource-hungry way to do it, but it can be done.

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Add a split and you can do 3rd party IRs in stereo if you want. Quite a resource-hungry way to do it, but it can be done.

 

 

I think I'm going to have to go this way. I just tried the Helix cab block some more and it's just not as good as 3rd party IR's. What is the best way to split the signal to get stereo IR's happening at the end of the chain with a stereo split just before it to feed my on stage power amp and cabs?

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Add a split and you can do 3rd party IRs in stereo if you want. Quite a resource-hungry way to do it, but it can be done.

Two 1024 point IRs are pretty close to one Helix cab in terms of DSP usage (non-scientifically measured). You will be hard pressed to hear much difference between 1024 and 2048 sample versions of IRs. For live stuff, you definitely won't hear the difference. 

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You can either run 2 of the 1028 sample IRs on the same path.  Or depending on how much routing and processing you already have, you can run 2048 IR on each path.

 

Try placing an FX send block before the IR and send that out to the power amp/cab, but have the signal continue through for the IRs and XLR outs.

 

If the patches aren't too complicated you can try duplicating them.  Path 1 with IRs sent out XLR, and Path 2 with no IRs sent to 1/4".  You can still split each path into separate outputs and PAN then for stereo use as needed.

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There are a lot of contortions available via routing, splits, loops, even running patch cables from one send/return loop to another. Most of these options require somewhat convoluted routing or use up twice the DSP and complicate maintenance of block changes by compelling users to duplicate their signal chains on two separate Helix paths and duplicate their block changes on both paths. The Helix would benefit greatly from a global cab bypass option. Please vote it up on Ideascale:          https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Global-CAB-OFF/790043-23508

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There are a lot of contortions available via routing, splits, loops, even running patch cables from one send/return loop to another. Most of these options require somewhat convoluted routing or use up twice the DSP and complicate maintenance of block changes by compelling users to duplicate their signal chains on two separate Helix paths and duplicate their block changes on both paths. The Helix would benefit greatly from a global cab bypass option. Please vote it up on Ideascale:          https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Global-CAB-OFF/790043-23508

 

 

A "Global Cab Off" might be useful for some people...  i.e. having a global button available that would turn off all cab blocks and IRs in Helix - so that one day you could run through your guitar amp and the next day you could use your FRFR instead - just turn on or off the global master CAB button.

 

But it wouldn't help the OP's quest to have two stereo paths running simultaneously, one with IR and one without - which is pretty much the set up needed for anyone who is using a regular guitar amp & cab on stage, but is trying to feed the FOH direct from Helix via Cab blocks or IRs.

 

For setting up stage amp via 1/4in with no Cab, and XLR with Cab, I think the simplest way would be for Helix's SEND block to be able to route to the 1/4in outs.  That way you can use the Big Vol Knob to adjust the master to your stage amp via, and it would work even if you have all your 4 FX send/returns already full.

Here's the ideascale for that - https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/SEND-Block-to-more-places-e-g-1-4in-for-easy-IR-bypass/818624-23508

 

using this idea (if it ever happens) The OP would need to put a SEND block to 1/4ins, then a split block followed by a mono IR on each path set to XLRS.  

 

It would be even tidier if there was a dual (stereo) IR block - is there an idea scale for that??

(EDIT - Yes there are two ideascales for dual IR blocks that I found in 5 seconds..  I wish people would use the search function before adding an idea!!!)

first one Nov 2016 - https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Dual-Impulse-Response-Block/859843-23508

2nd one Jan 2017 - https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Dual-IR-block/864258-23508

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A "Global Cab Off" might be useful for some people...  i.e. having a global button available that would turn off all cab blocks and IRs in Helix - so that one day you could run through your guitar amp and the next day you could use your FRFR instead - just turn on or off the global master CAB button.

...

 

Good point, a "Global Cab Off" option should definitely include IRs or be accompanied by a second "Global IR off" option.

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...

 

But it wouldn't help the OP's quest to have two stereo paths running simultaneously, one with IR and one without - which is pretty much the set up needed for anyone who is using a regular guitar amp & cab on stage, but is trying to feed the FOH direct from Helix via Cab blocks or IRs.

 

...

 

You are right in that in addition to having a "Global Cab/IR Off" option it would be ideal to be able to assign the global option to a given output, e.g. 1/4, XLR, Send 1, etc.. The trick may be how do you provide two stereo signals, one with cab/IR bypassed via global option and one using the cab/IR and not be forced to dramatically increase your DSP usage. I think that a lot of the users perhaps the preponderance, who use a guitar cab rather than an FRFR,  run mono to their guitar amp/cab onstage. For them the "Global Cab/IR Off" would be a most useful feature, even if it only resulted in the stage feed being mono. For those who want one stereo feed with cab and one without, things definitely seem to get trickier. However, other modeling devices have managed to implement global cab bypass options so perhaps it can be done without requiring a significant increase in DSP usage, even if takes the ideal form of being able to assign a with or without cab/IR signal in stereo if so configured to the output of your choice.

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You can either run 2 of the 1028 sample IRs on the same path.  Or depending on how much routing and processing you already have, you can run 2048 IR on each path.

 

Try placing an FX send block before the IR and send that out to the power amp/cab, but have the signal continue through for the IRs and XLR outs.

 

If the patches aren't too complicated you can try duplicating them.  Path 1 with IRs sent out XLR, and Path 2 with no IRs sent to 1/4".  You can still split each path into separate outputs and PAN then for stereo use as needed.

 

 

Care to share a screenshot I can try and replicate? 

 

I actually thought what I am trying to do would be an absolute no brainer to achieve like it is on the Kemper or Axe Fx.

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So trying to troubleshoot this myself, the big problem i am facing is inserting IR's after my stereo fx and not having my fx collapse to mono. If I can work that out, then it would be easy to take a tap pre IR blocks to feed stage sound. I would also like to not take out 2 fx sends in the process, but rather feed the 1/4 inch outs as I have some analogue pedals I want to incorporate into those fx loops. 

Surely the super flexible routing of the Helix can accomodate?

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