Refurb Variaxes for sale by Line 6

[zooey]

http://store.line6.com/factory-refurbished/guitars.html

[cruisinon2]

If you ask me $800 is a little steep for "refurbished" (Latin for "previously destroyed" ;) ), when you can buy brand new ones for $1K all day long.

[jbuhajla]

If you keep your eyes open for deals, you can do even better. I found a Variax Standard that a GC had for a while and they couldn't sell it. Picked it up for $600 and he threw in an extra charger and 4 other batteries he had laying around. It was "new" but had some pick scratches, but no biggie. Gave it to my son. I think I may want a Variax now...

 

Yeah $800 is a little steep for refurb JTV. 

[PeterHamm]

except that a refurb probably has an "as new" warranty, and often they are in absolutely perfect condition.

[njglover]

Maybe, but it's pretty hard to find the hardtail JTV89 in stores now. And I think this is less than I paid for "scratch and dent" from Sweetwater.

[cruisinon2]

Maybe, but it's pretty hard to find the hardtail JTV89 in stores now. And I think this is less than I paid for "scratch and dent" from Sweetwater.

"Scratch and dent" generally means some minor cosmetic flaw, or a few pick scratches if it was used as a demo....got mine from Sweetwater too, and I had a hard time finding the "scratch".

 

But to me "refurbished" screams "this thing had a problem"...otherwise there's nothing to "refurbish". Same reason I won't buy a used car. You never know what you're getting, or what was done to it. And warranty or no, as far as I'm concerned, a unit that already has a history of problem(s) is more likely to have future issues than one that hasn't been out of the box yet.

[PeterHamm]

...But to me "refurbished" screams "this thing had a problem"...otherwise there's nothing to "refurbish". Same reason I won't buy a used car. You never know what you're getting, or what was done to it. And warranty or no, as far as I'm concerned, a unit that already has a history of problem(s) is more likely to have future issues than one that hasn't been out of the box yet.

 

 

First... "refurbished" often gets slapped on gear that was bought and returned and is perfectly good, but no longer can ethically be sold new. I've bought a TON of refurbished camera stuff that is exactly that way. Sometimes there was something wrong and it was fixed, but according to manufacturers I've spoken with, the vast majority of this stuff is merely "re-boxed".

 

Second, what you mention is an ADVANTAGE, possibly, of buying refurbished if if was, in fact, repaired. Because if there was something wrong with it, now it got fixed. If you bought something new, maybe whatever is wrong with it isn't fixed yet!

 

Used car is a totally different scenario (although I'll only buy used from now on. The ridiculous amount of money you lose on a new car just ain't worth it to me).

[phil_m]

"Scratch and dent" generally means some minor cosmetic flaw, or a few pick scratches if it was used as a demo....got mine from Sweetwater too, and I had a hard time finding the "scratch".

 

But to me "refurbished" screams "this thing had a problem"...otherwise there's nothing to "refurbish". Same reason I won't buy a used car. You never know what you're getting, or what was done to it. And warranty or no, as far as I'm concerned, a unit that already has a history of problem(s) is more likely to have future issues than one that hasn't been out of the box yet.

 

I don't know... You could argue that a unit that had an issue show up early on may be less likely to have an issue in the future simply because it was sent back, repaired and underwent more extensive testing than new units. Usually, with electronics, you're dealing with discrete components anyway, so theoretically, a unit that received a new board shouldn't be any less likely to fail than another one.

 

It would be interesting to see the actual data.

 

My wife has saved quite a bit of money buying refurbished lenses from Nikon for her DSLR over the years. She hasn't had any issues with them.

[PeterHamm]

My wife has saved quite a bit of money buying refurbished lenses from Nikon for her DSLR over the years. She hasn't had any issues with them.

 

 

When I shot Nikon I had GREAT luck with about 3 or 4 refurbished items I bought, and since I've switched to Olympus, I've bought about the same. No issues with any of the "refurbished" stuff.

[PierM]

3999$ for a refurbished US 59? U kidding me? :D

[tedulrich]

When I shot Nikon I had GREAT luck with about 3 or 4 refurbished items I bought, and since I've switched to Olympus, I've bought about the same. No issues with any of the "refurbished" stuff.

 

 

My wife has saved quite a bit of money buying refurbished lenses from Nikon for her DSLR over the years. She hasn't had any issues with them.

 

Seriously.  Photography is one of my gigs, and I've bought exactly ONE lens and ONE camera body new.  All else has been refurb or used market. 

[psarkissian]

@ PierM,...  almost $4K for one? Must be a seriously customized, or ultra

fine, or tricked-out US made one for that price for a refurb.  But then, the guy

that does the US builds does really fine work.

[PeterHamm]

@ PierM,...  almost $4K for one? Must be a seriously customized, or ultra

fine, or tricked-out US made one for that price for a refurb.  But then, the guy

that does the US builds does really fine work.

 

 

Not only that, but you don't see them for sale used that often, leading me to think that people who have them love them.

[psarkissian]

@ Peter,....  Yes. I know the guy that does these, they are fine works.

[PeterHamm]

@ Peter,....  Yes. I know the guy that does these, they are fine works.

 

 

I have heard they are on par with Suhr, Anderson, Melancon, Tyler and the like, and the folks I've heard that from give me no reason not to believe it.

 

wish I could afford one!

[cruisinon2]

If you bought something new, maybe whatever is wrong with it isn't fixed yet!

 

I'm sure there's a point hiding in there somewhere, but I'll be buggered if I can find it. The definition of "new" pretty much guarantees that nothing has been fixed yet. "New" means unused. Thus, any lurking defects are as yet undiscovered...

 

As for buying "refurbished" anything as being an "advantage" because it used to be broken, but was nursed back to health....were that the case, "new" stuff would be a whole lot harder to unload. But, I gotta tip my hat. I used to work for a guy who would to say stuff just like that all the time...the man could sell ice to an Eskimo.

[PierM]

@ PierM,...  almost $4K for one? Must be a seriously customized, or ultra

fine, or tricked-out US made one for that price for a refurb.  But then, the guy

that does the US builds does really fine work.

 

No it is not a customized. Just a "regular" JTV59 made in USA. Not saying they are not good (at the opposite I've read good words on those), but considering it's a totally niche market, and it's a refurbished one, I'm expecting this guitar sitting there forever.

 

I honestly would be tempted to buy a US 59 (I do love my Korean JTV59!!) but I can't stand a price tag that high because used market it's basically non existent. :)

[psarkissian]

"I have heard they are on par with Suhr, Anderson, Melancon, Tyler and the like, and the folks I've heard that from give me no reason not to believe it"---

The guy who builds the US versions, is one of James Tyler's people.

 

I own 10 guitars, 4 are JTV's,... and none of them were purchased new.

[njglover]

First... "refurbished" often gets slapped on gear that was bought and returned and is perfectly good, but no longer can ethically be sold new. I've bought a TON of refurbished camera stuff that is exactly that way. Sometimes there was something wrong and it was fixed, but according to manufacturers I've spoken with, the vast majority of this stuff is merely "re-boxed".

 

Second, what you mention is an ADVANTAGE, possibly, of buying refurbished if if was, in fact, repaired. Because if there was something wrong with it, now it got fixed. If you bought something new, maybe whatever is wrong with it isn't fixed yet!

 

Used car is a totally different scenario (although I'll only buy used from now on. The ridiculous amount of money you lose on a new car just ain't worth it to me).

 

Gonna second this. If you look in the Variax forums, you will see an extremely long thread about problems with the sound of the 6th string on the Variax. Psarkissian can attest to that (I believe they are the one fixing my JTV89 now, actually). I suspect that these refurbs are models that have been sent back by various users/companies because of this problem and that the problem has been fixed now. So buying the refurbs may be more likely to result in a "good" guitar.

[psarkissian]

Actually a lot of them come back for cosmetic issues from dealers or someone

bricking a program board trying to do an update, miscellaneous electro-mechanical,

or just don't like the look or feel. Yeah, and the odd plink thing when palm muting

on the Strat patch.

 

Yeah, yours is almost done, I'm just dialing it in. Passing it around to the CS people

who are better at palm mutes than I am.

 

Mine sound like White Snake/Tony Iomi/Ronnie James Dio trying to do a pick/string

scratch while palming. It's why I don't do it much outside of classical guitar music.

[zooey]

What IS the deal with those big dollar models? I've never seen a Variaxe go for anywhere near that much. Not that I've been looking...

[njglover]

What IS the deal with those big dollar models? I've never seen a Variaxe go for anywhere near that much. Not that I've been looking...

 

US made. US custom shop guitars are always going to be expensive because US labor is expensive.

[njglover]

Actually a lot of them come back for cosmetic issues from dealers or someone

bricking a program board trying to do an update, miscellaneous electro-mechanical,

or just don't like the look or feel. Yeah, and the odd plink thing when palm muting

on the Strat patch.

 

Yeah, yours is almost done, I'm just dialing it in. Passing it around to the CS people

who are better at palm mutes than I am.

 

Mine sound like White Snake/Tony Iomi/Ronnie James Dio trying to do a pick/string

scratch while palming. It's why I don't do it much outside of classical guitar music.

 

Awesome! Excited to get it back, hoping for good results. I'm sure the Variax forum lurkers will love some good news, too. Thanks!

[pearlfukinjam]

Gonna second this. If you look in the Variax forums, you will see an extremely long thread about problems with the sound of the 6th string on the Variax. Psarkissian can attest to that (I believe they are the one fixing my JTV89 now, actually). I suspect that these refurbs are models that have been sent back by various users/companies because of this problem and that the problem has been fixed now. So buying the refurbs may be more likely to result in a "good" guitar.

 

Nope.  I bought one refurbished and had the problem.  Tried a bunch of different fixes.  Sent it back.  

 

What fix are you talking about?

[cruisinon2]

What fix are you talking about?

There isn't one...at least nothing universal that can be magically applied to any and all afflicted instruments. L6 formally announced in that epic length thread over on the Variax forum, that they were no longer devoting resources to the "plink" issue.

 

To me, this supports one of two theories that I think are equally likely:

 

1) There is no one single cause, but rather a combination of factors that contribute to it. Factors which are present in some guitars but not others, and not necessarily the exact same factors from one affected instrument to the next...making a universal fix all but impossible.

 

Or

 

2) They haven't a clue why it happens, which would hinder a cure for obvious reasons.

 

Take your pick...lol

[phil_m]

There isn't one...at least nothing universal that can be magically applied to any and all afflicted instruments. L6 formally announced in that epic length thread over on the Variax forum, that they were no longer devoting resources to the "plink" issue.

 

To me, this supports one of two theories that I think are equally likely:

 

1) there is no one single cause, but rather that a combination of factors that contribute to it, which are present in some guitars but not others...making a universal fix all but impossible.

 

Or

 

2) They haven't a clue why it happens.

 

Take your pick...lol

 

There are other possible reasons...

[cruisinon2]

There are other possible reasons...

I suppose you're right.

 

3) Too costly to fix the affected guitars.

If the failure rate is below a certain threshold, replacing the duds is cheaper than hemorrhaging money in pursuit of a fix...especially if the fix isn't 100%. Problems that are cheap and easy to solve, and that have a genuinely workable solution, cease to be problems. Complicated and prohibitively expensive issues will persist until we're all 6 feet under (or until somebody figures out how to do it for less money)....that's "Warranty 101".

 

4) They know what the problem is, but a fix simply isn't possible for some reason ...which wouldn't even be anyone's "fault". Sometimes the universe just works that way.

 

Anything else?

[pearlfukinjam]

There isn't one...at least nothing universal that can be magically applied to any and all afflicted instruments. L6 formally announced in that epic length thread over on the Variax forum, that they were no longer devoting resources to the "plink" issue.

 

 

Oh Ok, what kind of hoping I had missed it and would be interested in applying the solution ;)

[phil_m]

I suppose you're right.

 

3) Too costly to fix the affected guitars.

If the failure rate is below a certain threshold, replacing the duds is cheaper than hemorrhaging money in pursuit of a fix...especially if the fix isn't 100%. Problems that are cheap and easy to solve get fixed. Complicated and prohibitively expensive issues tend to persist...that's "Warranty 101".

 

4) They know what the problem is, but a fix simply isn't possible for some reason ...which wouldn't even be anyone's "fault". Sometimes the universe just works that way.

 

Anything else?

 

Well, their exact quote was "Due to a variety of reasons, we were unfortunately forced to deprioritize our research into this issue. We will report any pertinent findings at a later date."

 

There's a very simple explanation you're overlooking. Not trying to be coy, even though I'm sure it comes off that way. I'm bound by an NDA, so I have to be careful about what I share and don't share.

[cruisinon2]

Well, their exact quote was "Due to a variety of reasons, we were unfortunately forced to deprioritize our research into this issue. We will report any pertinent findings at a later date."

 

There's a very simple explanation you're overlooking.

This back and forth "riddle me this, Batman" routine accomplishes nothing.

 

That response is as boiler-plate as it gets. It dangles the hope of a future miracle for affected users, while also conveniently allowing them to say "we told you we weren't working on it anymore" whenever the issue pops up.

 

Or would you care to enlighten us all as to the "simple" explanation that I'm apparently too dim to figure out?

[cruisinon2]

Not trying to be coy, even though I'm sure it comes off that way. I'm bound by an NDA, so I have to be careful about what I share and don't share.

Well if you know before the conversation even starts that you can't talk about it anyway, why bother saying anything at all? You'll accomplish nothing but irritating anyone with an IQ bigger than their shoe size. "I know something you don't know" is for 10 year-olds on a playground.

[phil_m]

Well if you know before the conversation even starts that you can't talk about it anyway, why bother saying anything at all? You'll accomplish nothing but irritating anyone with an IQ bigger than their shoe size. "I know something you don't know" is for 10 year-olds on a playground.

 

My only point in commenting is that I think you're ascribing nefarious motives to Line 6 that aren't there.

[steevo1977]

Maybe the variax models are being revisited? That would be good to know. It's the best modelling guitar around but not perfect by any means. Still think it's amazing right enough!

[PierM]

I'll drop the bomb; imho the plink issue just does not exist as a technical issue. Every time I asked someone to describe, was about a different tingy, I never seen a single solid description, nor a sound file, that was proving something..and all these reports are all, more or less, description of normal limitation related to how piezo saddles are working and the very basics difference with a magnetic pickup.. There is also loads of people who think a palm mute on top of a piezo saddle has to produce same tone than a palm mute happening after a magnetic pickup (and not on top of it). This is, alone, a proof someone has no clue how a piezo is working, on its fundamentals. :)

 

Now, duck'n'cover....:D

[psarkissian]

"Due to a variety of reasons, we were unfortunately forced to deprioritize our research into this issue. We will report any pertinent findings at a later date."---

Fortunately, deprioritized does not mean abandoned.

 

PierM,... then it's a good thing I know how piezos work. But then, it's not all the piezo, there's the rest the a guitar as well.

When I test these, I test on the piezo and just forward of it (as I would in classical guitar technique) being aware of both methods

of playing. Good observation.

[HonestOpinion]

I have definitely heard at least one recording that very clearly captured the 'plink'. That and the many complaints over several years make me believe it is a genuine issue. I am wondering if the reason they are abandoning the search for a cure is simply that they are revamping the entire line of Variax guitars with new models and just moving on.

[psarkissian]

As I just mentioned, not abandoned.

[phil_m]

I have definitely heard at least one recording that very clearly captured the 'plink'. That and the many complaints over several years make me believe it is a genuine issue. I am wondering if the reason they are abandoning the search for a cure is simply that they are revamping the entire line of Variax guitars with new models and just moving on.

 

Well, they just came out with the Shuriken Variax, and that's using the same modeling tech as the JTV and Variax Standard, so it seems self-evident that they aren't just walking away from it... Any number of things can cause companies to have to deprioritze one project over others.

[HonestOpinion]

As I just mentioned, not abandoned.

 

Perhaps not abandoned, would 'deprioritized' per the quoted L6 statement be fair?  Of course, when you have spent years with a problem actively pursuing a fix and it is still an issue, deprioritizing can end up being equivalent to abandoning. Without more information shared from Line6 it is hard to see how less attention to the problem is going to lead to a fix unless the fix is in upcoming firmware and that is going to retrofit the older guitars. Anyway, due to lack of information it is all pure speculation on my part. I have a Variax and it is fine but I can understand why the 'deprioritization' statement would be a real bummer for people who are struggling with the 'plink'.

[cruisinon2]

My only point in commenting is that I think you're ascribing nefarious motives to Line 6 that aren't there.

Nothing nefarious about it. Self-interest is not a crime, and it certainly isn't peculiar to L6. It's called business. Every company in the world plays by the same set of rules....and at the end of the day, the bean counters determine which course of action makes sense. And no company, no matter how pure their motives, and or how eloquently written their "customer-centric" mission statement may be...NONE of them will shoot themselves in the foot financially in pursuit of a fool's errand. Nor should they. Nothing would ever get accomplished that way.

 

My only gripe about the way the whole thing was handled, was the constant harping on "causes" and "fixes" that were ridiculous at face value, but nevertheless repeatedly trotted out as Gospel.

 

As I said before...some things can't be fixed. Sometimes there is no good explanation as to "why" things happen. Technology has growing pains, and nobody knows everything yet. But just occasionally, when the answer is "We don't know", it would be refreshing to hear it said out loud...instead of blaming it on the tides, airline food, or the hole in the ozone (is that still there? It was the trendy thing to be terrified of 25 years ago, but you never hear about it anymore ;) ).