Tested FRFR speakers : Atomic CLR, Line 6 L2t, Yamaha DXR10, Yamaha DBR10

[timmyo]

I arranged to try all of these side by side today using Helix.

 

In terms of sounding and feeling most like playing an amp, the Atomic CLR was very *slightly* the nicest sounding. It is also £999 here in the UK, and is quite heavy (I was shifting them around in the shop while I tried them and it became clear that weights vary enormously among these) 

 

Next I tried the L2t - I was a bit disappointed with it - spec-wise I love it and thought it would be the one I went for, but whatever mode I put the DSP in it was less pleasant sounding (to me than the others). It's also still pretty heavy. I the pop-put legs are fantastic though :-) 

 

Then the DXR10 - this was really nice - clear, even, flattered both clean and drive sounds. A slightly different sort of sound to the CLR but I liked it. Noticeably lighter than the previous 2.

 

DBR10 - sounds very similar to the DXR10, so I started A/Bing them - the DXR sounded like it had a slightly clearer, more extended response (I am wording this badly) - so the DXR sounded just a bit 'nicer' than this DBR. The lightest of the bunch.

 

In the end I chose the DXR10 - they only had the shop model so I have one on order, arriving next week. 

 

The Line6 is the only one I wouldn't have been happy owning which surprised me - I wanted to like it! Everyone has different tastes I suppose, but the DXR10 gets a big thumbs-up from me. 

[JATXMD]

Thanks for sharing...I recently bought the Helix and decided to go with 2 DXR10's and agree they are great. I have owned a variety of POD's and was never happy with the Yamaha HS-5's I had. I initially bought the Helix and hated it through the HS-5 but the DXR10's make it so gratifying. I now love the Helix as much as my amp and pedal setup!

[fenderod]

This is reassuring - I just unboxed my new Helix today and a DXR10 shipped out to me yesterday. I started trying to tweak presets through headphones and it's not doing it for me - so looking forward to the Yamaha.

[MusicLaw]

I also went with two Yamaha DXR10 for use with my Helix. They sound great, are compact and lightweight.

[PierM]

I would put in the competition the Friedman ASM12, which is same price range as the L2m, and in my opinion the best in the pack. If I manage to sell my FH1500 and the L2M I'm gonna grab a pair of those and be probably happy for the next 10 years! :)

 

[timmyo]

There's actually a guy locally selling that Friedman, I was going to go and try it but it seems to be quite a bit heavier than what I've gone with so didn't in the end. 

[FlyingsCool]

What is it you didn't like about the L2t?

 

I've got one (and an L2m).  Not making excuses for it, as I imagine you set them up similar to each other so that counts for something. 

 

I found I didn't like it in monitor position on the floor in either monitor or PA mode, it was too coupled.  (plus I find I keep knocking the leg closed (I was using the handle side as the support).  I get better results, for me anyway, standing it on its end on a rug.  On a wood floor no matter what it's too boomy and bright.  The room I practice in is too small to put it on a pole, but I am going to try it lifted off the floor a foot and a half or so, too, see how that affects it.

 

I am interested in your thoughts comparing it to the DXR/DBR.  Also, what style music were you playing through it and what amps were you using?  Clean, slightly distorted, high gain chugging?

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

[timmyo]

Hi Tom

 

I'm still really surprised at my own test - partly because I expected to like it, and partly because as you say lots of people are really happy with them.

 

It may well have been the room I was in or something, but even if that is the case none of the other 3 devices seemed to be suffering.

 

What I was hearing, was a honkiness, and it was slight but it was (to my ears) there, whereas it wasn't on the CLR or the Yamahas. It was the kind of thing I *expected* to hear from a PA type speaker, but which the others didn't actually do. 

 

I was thinking about it today - does the row of EQ stuff in the side panel on the L2t affect the sound if you are plugged-in to the main inputs on the rear panel? I had assumed not and ignored it. If it *is* active on those other inputs, that might be it... 

[silverhead]

Hi Tom

 

... 

 

I was thinking about it today - does the row of EQ stuff in the side panel on the L2t affect the sound if you are plugged-in to the main inputs on the rear panel? I had assumed not and ignored it. If it *is* active on those other inputs, that might be it... 

 

You're right that they shouldn't affect things but I wouldn't discount it without explicitly testing.

 

I say this because I have noticed that the Trim control, if not at zero, can introduce noise to the mixer channel even if there is no physical input. That noise can be heard through the speaker. I discovered this one day in trying to diagnose a noise source. After checking all the usual suspects I remembered that I had moved the speaker out of and back into my studio since last using it in the studio. Sure enough during the movement someone's fingers appeared to have rotated a side panel Trim knob. Returning the knob to the zero position removed the noise. I haven't checked further on all the other side panel mixer knobs.

[FlyingsCool]

Hi Tom

 

I'm still really surprised at my own test - partly because I expected to like it, and partly because as you say lots of people are really happy with them.

 

It may well have been the room I was in or something, but even if that is the case none of the other 3 devices seemed to be suffering.

 

What I was hearing, was a honkiness, and it was slight but it was (to my ears) there, whereas it wasn't on the CLR or the Yamahas. It was the kind of thing I *expected* to hear from a PA type speaker, but which the others didn't actually do. 

 

I was thinking about it today - does the row of EQ stuff in the side panel on the L2t affect the sound if you are plugged-in to the main inputs on the rear panel? I had assumed not and ignored it. If it *is* active on those other inputs, that might be it... 

 

According to the manual, if you mean the line level inputs at the top of the back panel, no, the EQ knobs should only affect the two channels on the side panel.  Did you set the Helix out to Line Level?  (I'm not sure what the default is)

 

I seem to be happiest in PA/Reference Mode, btw.

 

You're right that they shouldn't affect things but I wouldn't discount it without explicitly testing.

 

I say this because I have noticed that the Trim control, if not at zero, can introduce noise to the mixer channel even if there is no physical input. That noise can be heard through the speaker. I discovered this one day in trying to diagnose a noise source. After checking all the usual suspects I remembered that I had moved the speaker out of and back into my studio since last using it in the studio. Sure enough during the movement someone's fingers appeared to have rotated a side panel Trim knob. Returning the knob to the zero position removed the noise. I haven't checked further on all the other side panel mixer knobs.

 

By Trim knobs, are you referencing the Gain knobs on channels 1 and 2 on the side panels?  I haven't noticed any noise from them, though I could imagine there would be, especially if one was turned all the way up.  But also... Perhaps a dirty pot?

 

I did, however, notice a ton of noise when I added a TC Electronics M300 effects processor between the side mixer and my mic.  But I'm not sure if I was using TRS cables, and my "studio" (I use the term loosely) isn't exactly clean electrically.

[billlorentzen]

I've got a coupe DXR 10s and the sub, which I use as pa on some gigs and just 1or2 dxrs for guitar on others. These cabs have an exceptionally hifi sound for their price. I love mine!

[Pat6969]

I use 2 Matrix FR10's with my Helix and it sound incredible. I did a side by side with the big boys and ended up with these. Excellent dispersion, tight low end and 21 lbs. KILLER!!

 

[laxtlo]

Here is twin brother of matrix FR-10 and i love it :) Lightweight and powerfull with DPS function "namely "flat"  "loudness correction" and "bass cut" modes.  An audible beep lets you know which mode is active" So easy to grap a guitar in the back and matrix to left hand and helix to the right and off you go :)

 

-laxtlo

[FlyingsCool]

Here is twin brother of matrix FR-10 and i love it :) Lightweight and powerfull with DPS function "namely "flat"  "loudness correction" and "bass cut" modes.  An audible beep lets you know which mode is active" So easy to grap a guitar in the back and matrix to left hand and helix to the right and off you go :)

 

-laxtlo

 

Ummm... what is it?  Or are you just another Matrix FR10 user.  You seem to imply it's a different product.

[laxtlo]

Same product sorry for confusion.

[WithALoudNoise]

I have had a great experience with the L2t - I just added an L2m and I am finding they sound phenomenal. I use them in the studio in floor monitor mode using the handle to hold them at a 30 degree position. Setting them in monitor mode cuts the bass response - then when I place them upright on stands I set them in PA/Reference mode and I am finding that my patches translate very well.

Yesterday, I used the set in an acoustic setup for a conference with a mic plugged in to channel two and my acoustic plugged in to channel one via an LR Baggs Para DI. Switched on the acoustic modeling with a little reverb on the L2t as well and was easily able to get the sound I needed. Plenty of power for a pretty large area.

I am thinking of adding a couple of the Stagesource subs in the near future for added power. I am finding I get the best of both worlds with a full on PA plus a great FRFR guitar rig. Really depends on your sound and what you are looking for.

If you have the capability to test different systems, that is a big plus.  Here in MidCoast Maine I have to rely on reviews and YouTube videos to 'try before I buy'. I took a chance on the Stagesource speakers and have been very pleased - for my purposes the built in mixer on the L2T is an added bonus. The Helix is so darned tweakable I find it is possible with a bit of work to get exactly the sound I am looking for.

[dannepop]

Just curious, how did you set up the L2 when you made the comparison?

With a D-link and in PA mode?

 

D

[timmyo]

Just curious, how did you set up the L2 when you made the comparison?

With a D-link and in PA mode?

 

D

 

XLR and PA mode 

[dannepop]

XLR and PA mode 

 

 

Ok, it´s not optimal. Use the D-link instead!

 

D

[timmyo]

Ok, it´s not optimal. Use the D-link instead!

 

D

 

Care to expand on that? 

 

World class sound is created every day over XLRs, and I wouldn't be using any of the other features that d-link supports, just audio... 

[Verne-Bunsen]

Sounds like a fun, I mean meticulous and very serious, project! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I bought an Atomic CLR cab when I purchased Helix and have been very happy with the pairing.

[timmyo]

Sounds like a fun, I mean meticulous and very serious, project! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I bought an Atomic CLR cab when I purchased Helix and have been very happy with the pairing.

 

Yes I liked the CLR for sure. 

[dannepop]

Care to expand on that? 

 

World class sound is created every day over XLRs, and I wouldn't be using any of the other features that d-link supports, just audio... 

 

Sorry I meant L-link, the outgoing connector that Line 6 has made to

transport information to StageSource speakers. I think they send data as well as analog.

 

I can hear a great difference in sound quality between a normal XLR and the L-link!

 

Danne/

[FlyingsCool]

Sorry I meant L-link, the outgoing connector that Line 6 has made to

transport information to StageSource speakers. I think they send data as well as analog.

 

I can hear a great difference in sound quality between a normal XLR and the L-link!

 

Danne/

 

You were correct the first time, it's D-link.

 

XLR should be just as optimal as D-link. That's interesting that you can hear a difference.  Any idea why? Cable quality?

 

With D(igital)-Link, it sends the digital signal to the StageSource speaker, and the StageSource does the D-A conversion, and, if you have another StageSource connected to the first, it'll automatically separate the stereo signal, so, in essence, you only ever need one cable from the Helix whether you are in mono or stereo mode (and one cable between the speakers in stereo).

 

One thing I've wondered is the comparative quality of the D/A converters between the Helix and the StageSource speakers (not the at I'd probably be able to tell).

[MusicLaw]

There is an IdeaScale submission to update Helix's firmware to allow Helix's D-Link jack output format to be selectable to support the Yamaha DXR Series FRFR Monitors' XLR Link system. As Yamaha now owns Line 6, this would broaden Helix's capability by allowing Yamaha DXR FRFR Monitor owners to also use the Helix D-Link jack. You may vote on that IdeaScale submission here.

[astroturf]

I arranged to try all of these side by side today using Helix.

 

In terms of sounding and feeling most like playing an amp, the Atomic CLR was very *slightly* the nicest sounding. It is also £999 here in the UK, and is quite heavy (I was shifting them around in the shop while I tried them and it became clear that weights vary enormously among these) 

 

Next I tried the L2t - I was a bit disappointed with it - spec-wise I love it and thought it would be the one I went for, but whatever mode I put the DSP in it was less pleasant sounding (to me than the others). It's also still pretty heavy. I the pop-put legs are fantastic though :-) 

 

....

 

I have the L3T, Atomic and Friedman. I have to agree, the Line 6 equipment sounds... Harsh on the highs. The atomic sounds slightly better with a much better form factor. The Friedman sounds deep and not as harsh, but it is heavy. I am going to sell the L3T and keep the Friedman and the CLR. Putting both together creates an incredible tone that neither alone can create (all my patches are mono so it isn't a stereo effect unless Helix does something different when L+R are plugged in).

[timmyo]

I have the L3T, Atomic and Friedman. I have to agree, the Line 6 equipment sounds... Harsh on the highs. The atomic sounds slightly better with a much better form factor. The Friedman sounds deep and not as harsh, but it is heavy. I am going to sell the L3T and keep the Friedman and the CLR. Putting both together creates an incredible tone that neither alone can create (all my patches are mono so it isn't a stereo effect unless Helix does something different when L+R are plugged in).

 

All 3? I'm jealous :-) 

 

I think if money were no object, and I had the back of a younger, stronger man then the Atomic CLR would be what I used. 

 

As it is the DXR10 arrived an hour ago and it is good as I remember, so a happy chap right now. 

[Verne-Bunsen]

I have the L3T, Atomic and Friedman. I have to agree, the Line 6 equipment sounds... Harsh on the highs. The atomic sounds slightly better with a much better form factor. The Friedman sounds deep and not as harsh, but it is heavy. I am going to sell the L3T and keep the Friedman and the CLR. Putting both together creates an incredible tone that neither alone can create (all my patches are mono so it isn't a stereo effect unless Helix does something different when L+R are plugged in).

 

That's food for thought. I'd been thinking about investing in another CLR but the idea of combining two complimentary monitors is intriguing. You say your patches are mono, so does that mean you are using the same Helix cabs and/or IRs for both the CLR and the Friedman?

[astroturf]

That's food for thought. I'd been thinking about investing in another CLR but the idea of combining two complimentary monitors is intriguing. You say your patches are mono, so does that mean you are using the same Helix cabs and/or IRs for both the CLR and the Friedman?

 

Correct, if I have two cabs then both are output L+R rather than a different cab to each.

[Verne-Bunsen]

Correct, if I have two cabs then both are output L+R rather than a different cab to each.

Cool, thanks for that. It's stuck in my head now so I'm pretty sure it just cost me $900, haha! I have a couple of amps that have been sitting around collecting dust since I got Helix, might be time to suck it up and trade 'em on in...