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benifin

HI - LO Cab and IR Cuts ....... * Attached * Audio Clip Proof they need to be Fixed ........

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Hi all

 

See the clip below - I tried to Embed it but cant seem to see how to do it :( .....  - the clip is  structured as follows:-

 

-> 1st  Group of 8 very short chord clips is of a VERY BRIGHT AC30

 

-> 2nd Group of 8 very short chord clips is of  a VERY BRIGHT  Low Gain Litigator

 

-> 3rd Group of 8 very short chord clips is of  a VERY BRIGHT  Hi Gain Plexi

 

-> All 24 clips played with a Telecaster Bridge P/U

 

https://soundcloud.com/ben-ifin/stock-helix-hi-lo-cut-vs-6db-hi-lo-cut

 

Here's the important bit :)

 

-> the same  [ OH ]  IR was used for all 24 clips

 

-> in all 3  groups of  the 8 clips,  the   1st  /  3rd  /  5th  /  7th  clips are the Helix Stock  Lo / Hi Cut  set to  95hz / 4700hz  -whereas-  the  2nd /  4th  / 6th / 8th  clips the  Lo / Hi Cut was  pre-applied to the IR  in Audacity using its Hi / Lo Pass  Filter which has a setting for either a 6db per octave or a 12db per octave Lo / Hi Pass ..... I did it at  6db Cut per octave at  95hz / 4700hz  and then in the Helix, the  Lo / Hi Cuts were turned OFF

 

Why is this important  ?

 

If you play each group of 8 clips from start to finish you will hear

 

-> the Stock Helix Cuts have a much harsher / more nasally mid-range coming through [ also, the low end is not as tight ]

 

-> when you start dropping the Hi Cut lower to say, 4400hz or 4200hz in order to get rid of this  "nasally-mid-range"  you then start to lose the good-mid-range-body of the tone that you need

 

-> 6db per octave and 12db per octave Lo / Hi "filters"  / "cuts" / "slopes"   are the industry standard for speaker crossover design - its how your monitors, speakers etc.... are designed ... its what your hearing is used  .... its why the Axe XL has these "slopes" for its Lo / Hi cuts ... its why the Kemper Studio EQ has its Hi / Lo Cut pre-defined to a 6db per octave slope  etc.......

 

-> this  harshness / "nasally-mid-range"  Hi Cut problem can be worked around by placing an EQ block after the Cab and re-compensating to  (i) get rid of the  excess nasallyness and  re-introducing the mid-range body you lose from "over-cutting"   but  we shouldnt have to need to do this

 

I really / sincerley / genuinley hope this is  escalated up the line to be fixed :) ...becasue when you hear some people - here and on "other forums" -  bag / critize  the Helix saying its too harsh / to difficult to tame the hi-end  / nasty-mids / has  "squirrels"  in it   etc..... I can assure you [ and them ]  that  this is what is causing their  [real]  hearing concerns.

 

Lastly - please dont get me wrong - I have an Axe XL, Kemper and a Helix .... and the Helix is as good an anything - I love using it ...... but this is a very real issue / problem which is significant but can very easily be addressed  but  updating the Cab / IR  Lo / Hi Cuts to be selectable at either 6db per ocatve    12 db per oactve.

 

All the best,

Ben

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I must admit I don't hear much of a difference between most of them... The ones that stood out as being the most different to me were the 8th clips of the AC30 tone, and the 7th and 8th clip of the Litigator... The 8th AC30 clip seemed overly dull to me, and the 7th and 8th Litigator tones seemed nearly equally dull... This is listening though my studio monitors, fwiw. I don't know... I mean those are bright tones, for sure, but I don't find any of the irritatingly bright, I guess.

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In the first bank of clips 1,3,5,7 sound better than 2,4,6,8 as the evens sound dull in actual fact.

 

In the second set there is very little difference at all between them

 

In the third set 2,4,6,7 are brighter than 1,3,5,7. Your hi cut is clearly too much on the odds.

 

Why did you use the same IR for all amps? The frequency output from each amp is different (that's why we use different speakers) and also IRs have frequency data baked in that may not suit each amp type.

 

The stock cabs are absolutely fine. They are meant to simulate what a mic'd cab sounds like; they are not what a cab in the room sounds like and not what a finished processed sound is like. Helix gives you the full sound to play with and not some pre-eq'd and predecided frequency range as you get with other units. Comparing the stock cabs to IRs is pointless as they are very different in nature.

 

I listened to these clips on Beyerdynamic DT880pro headphones via the Helix.

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