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Helix DT 25

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i have read alot about using this set up with good results, as we wait for some kind of integration,  It seems to be,  turn off the pre amp and cab in the dt using midi. or my question could you not just plug into the fx return or thr line 6 link? for the same results?  not sure why you would have to midi any thing  is there a advantage doing this?

thanks

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You can just use the return in jack and a guitar cable. But in order to use L6-Link (for the audio only- no control yet)  you would need to use DT-Edit software via midi connection and zero out the amp and cabs, reverb and mics.

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i think i am missing some thing why would many do  the midi no cab/amp why midi? if its the same thing

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DT Edit is a free program you download to get into the midi functions of the amp, to switch on or off stuff, change topologies, class A to AB,  etc etc. All that's done thru midi CC commands.

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It's too keep from feeding the new Helix models into the older HD models. If you were just to plug in via the L6 Link you'd end up running one into the other.

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Just seem strange that anyone would bother doing midi if the fx return is the same.

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What you are missing is, before Helix and during the "Dream-Rig" era using an HD-500x series modeler with L6-Link between the HD and the DT amp, when changing from say a Fender to a Vox amp, the "control" settings for L6-Link used midi to switch many things in the DT-amplifier, like Class AB to Class A, tetrode to triode, Fender Cab to Vox Cab, etc etc. So this was why its there in the first place, and it's also why when Helix was released I was upset when I found out that Line 6 used the same "Trademarked" name for Line-6 Link on both units ports,  while having very very different outcomes as far as midi power and functionality. I (and many others) can only hope this gets fixed at some point, but the prolonged silence in doing so is deafening.

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The FX return on the DT-25 is after the master volume so there is potential for some very loud noises if you get the master on the Helix wrong.

That why I went the L6 way.

 

Craig

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If you use the FX return you lose any opportunity to reconfigure the DT25 to match the amp you are using in Helix without manually throwing switches.  I use the L6 link personally.  I used DT Edit to reconfigure my DT25 so there are no internal amps or cabs on any of the 8 voicings.  Channel A is set up with Class A, topology 1-4 and Channel B is set up with Class AB, topology 1-4.  Now all I have to do is add a midi instant command to my Helix patch to pick the right voicing for the model I am using.  I never use my DT without the Helix so it works for me.

 

I have posted a lot about Helix DT integration and wish they would fix it.  They have stated many times that it is on the list but the things they have given us so far were much higher priorities.  Its never going to be as seamless as it was in the HD500 because the system architectures between Helix and HD500 are so different.  However, they have promised us an 'elegant' solution at some point...

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Radatat,

Are you saying that the midi commands are sent over L6 or do you have a seperate midi connection?

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Radatat,

Are you saying that the midi commands are sent over L6 or do you have a seperate midi connection?

 

No, unfortunately it still needs a midi connection from Helix out to DT25 in for the channel / voicing changes in addition to the L6 link...

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You could do midi with a FX return connection to change parameters too.  The problem is whatever changes you send to the DT stay that way until the next change commands.  If you are using the FX return and send midi commands to set Class A, topo III, on Channel A, voice I for instance, that is how your DT will remain no matter what until you send new commands or do a system reset.  That's why i set all 8 voicings one time and then just choose the right one for my needs.

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Radatat your a legend with this dt/ helix. It's kind of hard for me to wrap my head around I will look at all your posts and find out what it's all about thanks for all your work

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Radatat your a legend with this dt/ helix. It's kind of hard for me to wrap my head around I will look at all your posts and find out what it's all about thanks for all your work

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Thanks Radatats,

 

I'm still suffering from options overload with the Helix so haven't tried incorporating amp settings yet.

I'll probably use your method when I do though.

 

Craig

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Radatat your a legend with this dt/ helix. It's kind of hard for me to wrap my head around I will look at all your posts and find out what it's all about thanks for all your work

 

Hahahahaha...  only in my own mind... lol  Glad I can help the community a little bit.

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However, they have promised us an 'elegant' solution at some point...

 

 

Could you please link that "elegant" solution promise made? I seem to have misplaced it.

 

Thanks.

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On 3/27/2017 at 4:23 AM, radatats said:

If you use the FX return you lose any opportunity to reconfigure the DT25 to match the amp you are using in Helix without manually throwing switches.  I use the L6 link personally.  I used DT Edit to reconfigure my DT25 so there are no internal amps or cabs on any of the 8 voicings...

 

Hey @radatats, I've been reading all discussions about Helix-DT "integration"... thanks for all the research you've done!

 

I am a DT25 112 combo owner and looking into getting a Helix.  I guess what people love about the DTs is the tube tone, not only power amp tubes but also the pre-amp tube tones... even though there's amp modeling both stages.

 

I understand that with the 4CM method I would still have full flexibility to use either Helix's or the DT's pre-amp modeling since you have full control of the signal chain.  But the "small" drawback is the FX return on the DT is after the master volume.

 

Regarding L6 Link... My question is when connecting the Helix to the DT using L6... is that similar to plugging the Helix (digitally, though) in front of the DT combo?  So with L6 Link you can't see the FX loop in the signal chain and can't use Helix's effects "after" the DT pre-amps anymore?

 

Thanks in advance!

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In my experience, using L6 link is great but the DT internal amp modeling stays on.  What winds up happening is the Helix signal with L6 link is being applied to the front of the amp and then goes through the DT amp modeling in addition to your Helix modeling resulting in a garbage tone.  There are NO preamp tubes in the DT 25.  The sole 12AX7 is a rectifier for the power section.  The DT preamp is all HD500 amp modeling.  The best thing I found to do was to either disable the internal amp and cab modeling using something like DT-Edit or just running into the FX return of the DT.  That bypasses all the internal DT stuff but is post master so volume must be controlled from the Helix.  I see no point in trying to do 4CM with the DT because you are essentially taking a step backwards with the modelling.  My best results come when using Helix full amp models, no cab or IR, and using the DT as a fully configurable power section with a real cab.  DT is really just a great power amp.

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the dt amps were awesome with the hd500x and i was bummed line 6 didnt update the line to work with the helix. The powercab thing is cheap and while well intended does not have the tubelike power section needed in a modeler. 

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