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Where does the noisegate reside in the path?


brue58ski
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In using the Volume pedal right at the beginning of the chain, if the noise gate is on, it acts like the Volume pedal is before the noise gate. With the noise gate on, the volume suddenly pops in when the volume is increased via the Volume pedal. It's at the very beginning of the pedals travel but it is there. Where if the noise gate is off, the volume reacts smoothly to the Volume pedal. Does anyone know where the noise gate is in the chain? I assumed it was right at the beginning since it was in the Variax area but the use of the Volume pedal proves differently.

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You're talking about the noise gate in the input block? It's the very first thing in the chain... I'm not sure how it be anything else. It just sounds like the volume pedal is being short circuited by the gate. The volume pedal isn't getting any signal until the gate opens, and then when it does, it slams it. So it wouldn't leave much travel in the pedal.

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Volume pedal early in the signal chain (always after noise gate) will control drive into the amp, and therefore distortion levels. Volume pedal after the amp/IR block controls the overall amp output and the input into any post amp effects.

 

I've tried it both ways and they have very different uses. If the volume pedal is before the amp, I generally set the range pretty narrow, and it plays a role similar to the volume control on my guitar to change distortion and feel.

 

Volume after the amp is generally used to control monitor or FOH output. If set at a very narrow range, it can act as a continuously controllable boost.

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As far as I know the noise gate is first in the chain.

 

In my opinion it would be much better if the noise gate could be placed anywhere, and fed (triggered) with the signal from right at the jack input, so it will work better after amp patches - especially helpful if using real tube amp in 4cm with Helix.

 

This should be difficult to achieve really.. heck my old GSP 1101 could do it.. you could just choose wether the trigger control signal came from input or from return from amp.

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As far as I know the noise gate is first in the chain.

 

In my opinion it would be much better if the noise gate could be placed anywhere, and fed (triggered) with the signal from right at the jack input, so it will work better after amp patches - especially helpful if using real tube amp in 4cm with Helix.

 

This should be difficult to achieve really.. heck my old GSP 1101 could do it.. you could just choose wether the trigger control signal came from input or from return from amp.

 

 

You can place a noise gate anywhere you want. Disable the input gate and insert the hard or soft gate from the filter section at any point you choose.

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You're talking about the noise gate in the input block? It's the very first thing in the chain... I'm not sure how it be anything else. It just sounds like the volume pedal is being short circuited by the gate. The volume pedal isn't getting any signal until the gate opens, and then when it does, it slams it. So it wouldn't leave much travel in the pedal.

 

I always thought it was the first thing in the chain since it is in the input block, until I came across this phenomenon of the volume popping in abruptly with the Volume pedal placed right after the input block. In other words, I hit a chord with the Volume pedal down. If the noise gate is the first thing, this should then open the gate while the Volume pedal is down which should then equate to a smooth volume transition as I bring the Volume pedal up. This is not what happens. The audio abruptly appears after bringing the Volume pedal up about 5%-10%. As if the gate is after the Volume pedal. BUT when I turn the gate off, the volume increase is smooth. This is in the same patch. I would love a confirmation from Line 6 regarding this.

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Maybe you have the threshold to high. I usually set mine at -63 with decay at 25 for all but super high gain presets. I just tested my volume and its smooth right out of the gate, zero "pop". I'm assuming your volume pedal is set to logarithmic and not linear?

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I always thought it was the first thing in the chain since it is in the input block, until I came across this phenomenon of the volume popping in abruptly with the Volume pedal placed right after the input block. In other words, I hit a chord with the Volume pedal down. If the noise gate is the first thing, this should then open the gate while the Volume pedal is down which should then equate to a smooth volume transition as I bring the Volume pedal up. This is not what happens. The audio abruptly appears after bringing the Volume pedal up about 5%-10%. As if the gate is after the Volume pedal. BUT when I turn the gate off, the volume increase is smooth. This is in the same patch. I would love a confirmation from Line 6 regarding this.

 

I guess I don't find anything unexpected about the behavior you're describing. It's hard to explain without resorting to drawing something, but I think what's happening is you start moving the volume pedal, increasing the level from -70dB or whatever the zero point is. But the actual zero point of the signal coming is whatever you have the threshold set to, so the volume pedal isn't starting from the bottom of the sweep. It's starting in the middle, from wherever the gate open up. So instead of smoothly coming up from zero, it just pops on, and then finishes the sweep. The rest of the sweep probably isn't nearly as noticeable, though, because it's a less gradual increase.

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I guess I don't find anything unexpected about the behavior you're describing. It's hard to explain without resorting to drawing something, but I think what's happening is you start moving the volume pedal, increasing the level from -70dB or whatever the zero point is. But the actual zero point of the signal coming is whatever you have the threshold set to, so the volume pedal isn't starting from the bottom of the sweep. It's starting in the middle, from wherever the gate open up. So instead of smoothly coming up from zero, it just pops on, and then finishes the sweep. The rest of the sweep probably isn't nearly as noticeable, though, because it's a less gradual increase.

 

I'm not so sure you understand what I'm saying/asking. What you state would all be true with the Noise Gate AFTER the Volume pedal. That is how it is acting. But if the gate is BEFORE the Volume pedal it is the guitar's direct signal, not the Volume pedal's position that determines whether the Noise Gate is open or not.  With the Noise Gate BEFORE the Volum pedal, if I have hit a chord full on, the gate should be fully open already, before I even move the Volume pedal. The threshold of the Noise Gate should have already been reached by the guitar signal. It should act as if there is no Noise Gate there since it has reached it's threshold and is fully open.

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Well there's an easy way to test it. Turn the input block noise gate off, and insert a noise gate block with the same settings in the path before the volume pedal and see how it reacts.

 

There's no need for me to test it. I've always put my noise gate before the volume pedal for all of the reasons I stated. It's always worked smoothly before. And, again, it's because the noise gate is already fully open since a chord has been hit. I'm not sure what's not clear about that.

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I guess I don't find anything unexpected about the behavior you're describing. It's hard to explain without resorting to drawing something, but I think what's happening is you start moving the volume pedal, increasing the level from -70dB or whatever the zero point is. But the actual zero point of the signal coming is whatever you have the threshold set to, so the volume pedal isn't starting from the bottom of the sweep. It's starting in the middle, from wherever the gate open up. So instead of smoothly coming up from zero, it just pops on, and then finishes the sweep. The rest of the sweep probably isn't nearly as noticeable, though, because it's a less gradual increase.

This.

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This.

 

"This" would not be true if the noise gate is placed before the Volume pedal which is what I'm trying to find out. "This" would only be true if the noise gate was positioned AFTER the Volume pedal which is what it sounds like in my patch and what "This" describes. I would like a confirmation of where in the signal path the noise gate at the input actually resides because it does not sound like it is actually at the very beginning of the chain. What I'm not looking for is a description of the phenomenon and why it's happening. I need no other info other than a confirmation of where in the chain the Noise Gate in the input section resides when it is engaged.

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