Struggling with alto ts210

[twystedriffs]

So when I bought my helix, I ran it the way I knew how and with the equipment I had. Stereo power blocks with two 4*12 cabinets. I knew I was missing a lot of the Helix with the cabinets and IRs and such. But it sounded really damn good. So a week or two ago I started doing some recording and adding cabinets in my chain and everything sounded amazing through my studio monitors I was hooked. So I ordered an alto ts210, and just plugged it up. Even if I just start a brand new patch put in an amp with a cab and nothing else, everything sounds really muddy and bad. I kept my studio monitors on at low volume, just to give me some of the stereo spread I am used to, but the sound quality is still the same. I've tried high and low cuts on the cabinets but everything sounds terrible to me. I'm very frustrated period should I run left and right quarter inches into both inputs of the alto speaker? Or just the left mono? I turn the guitar pad on and then running line out. Maybe it's just adjusting my ear, but if it sounds like this I will go back to my apps and cabs, I just can't seem to get a good starting spot on hardly any of these ant models they all have the same muddy harshness. Any help would be great exclamation point I am a 20-year Line 6 veteran, so I know what I'm doing. It just seems this thing should sound a little better without massive tweaking, I feel I am missing something. I have the alto volume at 12 as full volume has alot of hiss..

[jbuhajla]

The first thing I found myself doing when transitioning to a powered PA speaker was to use low and high cuts on my cab/IRs. The low end was fairly muddy and boomy, and the high end was kind of harsh. I saved all of my presets with "PA" at the end of the name, and tweaked them separately. I play mostly Teles and Strats and not a lot of high gain stuff. I high cut most of the cab/IRs to 10khz and low cut most at 90-100hz. Also beware of harshness from reverbs. I generally run the mix on all of mine from 20-40%, and use the high cut parameter in the reverb block at 1khz. 

[cruisinon2]

Every time you switch to a different means of monitoring the sound, your tone will change. Different box, different sound...a small pair of studio monitors will have a different response curve than a larger PA speaker, FRFR designations notwithstanding. As stated above, high and low cuts are a good place to start, but you can always expect to do some tweaking....sometimes a lot....between different monitoring methods. It's just the nature of the beast.

[Rocco_Crocco]

I always run mono into my Alto, even though I have 2 inputs.

[twystedriffs]

Hey Rocco, do you just use one speaker cabinet, or do you have two altos? If you are just running one, have you ever run both cables into it, I tried that and it seems to be a bit Fuller. I am assuming you use quarter inch to the speaker so you can have the XLR to the PA? I know you guys are right, that every speaker is going to sound different. But that's what's kind of frustrating me about this FRFR thing. I thought the idea was that no matter what you plugged into it would be pretty close. And I know it's not going to be the same as having my amps cranked up. I guess the few sounds I was attempting sounded really good on my studio monitor, so I was expecting this awesome sound when I plugged in the alto speaker. Instead the patches were unusable as they were. Makes me worry that if I get my Altos sounding good and then plug into a larger PA system I will feel the same way. And thank you all for the advice, I have been cutting the cabinet frequencies and that is certainly a huge help. I was just surprised, I would put a single amp and cab and a path and none of them really sounded very good. I certainly want to go this route, it would be so much easier. I guess I will just play with this speaker over the weekend and see what I can come up with. I think if I had two of them I might be a little happier, as I am used to the spread of my stereo cabinets, and that is the way I have run for years. Mainly was just curious if you guys to use one cable or two, and what the main difference was. I am also assuming that I should leave the Contour button flat as that would be most representative of the sound through the PA correct? Thanks again guys

[tedulrich]

I'm currently running a single TS215 on a pole in my home studio, I haven't used it in a live situation yet.  Contour is OFF, it sounded slightly better at first with it on, but I fixed how I build presets and it sounds far better than what the contour will do.  I don't put it on the floor because it bass couples like crazy and completely changes the sound. 

 

I generally don't run the Helix direct to it.  I have a little mixing board at my desk, I run a dual 1/4" out from the Helix into the board, mixed with the out from my MacBook that runs my soft synths.  I realize that I could use the Helix to mix, but I'd rather not turn it on and go through all that when I'm just sitting down to run the keyboard.  The stereo XLR outs from my board go to the two inputs on the back of the TS215, with the levels set halfway unless I need more juice, which is rare in my condo.  :D

[Equilibrium_606]

I'm currently running a single TS215 on a pole in my home studio, I haven't used it in a live situation yet.  Contour is OFF, it sounded slightly better at first with it on, but I fixed how I build presets and it sounds far better than what the contour will do.  I don't put it on the floor because it bass couples like crazy and completely changes the sound. 

 

I generally don't run the Helix direct to it.  I have a little mixing board at my desk, I run a dual 1/4" out from the Helix into the board, mixed with the out from my MacBook that runs my soft synths.  I realize that I could use the Helix to mix, but I'd rather not turn it on and go through all that when I'm just sitting down to run the keyboard.  The stereo XLR outs from my board go to the two inputs on the back of the TS215, with the levels set halfway unless I need more juice, which is rare in my condo.  :D

 

Quick one.....are you running the soft synths through the Helix & then too the mixer? Or are you running the soft synths separately via the Macbook?

[Joepeggio]

1. Floor coupling is a big effect.   Is your 210 on the floor?  

 

       I have 2 110's on the floor, built patches and they were so thin and brittle in our PA, I had to redo them all.

 

2.  I would refrain from putting left and right into one speaker.  It will give you phase issues and comb filtering if your presets are stereo.

[twystedriffs]

I stood it up on the floor, helps a little. I got some better results as a tweaked yesterday. I think the main thing is I have always run two seperate cabs, I am used to the spread..so I ordered a second one last night;)

[CBTL]

Iv just got an alto 210 and I'm really happy! I have it on the floor (wooden) wedge style. Iv stopped using global eq and now cut on the cabs, 50-80 low and 7-6 high. It sounds great. I have the helix at noon on the volume and alto really low for home playing.

[twystedriffs]

Yeah I was just used to the big sound of my stereo amps. I only had the one Alto so if I put my studio monitors on at the same time and gave me a little that spread. Looking forward to getting the other one in the mail soon period I am cutting all my cabs at 120 on the low end comma and anywhere from 4 to 13 on the highs depending on the patch I'm working with it sounds pretty good, I'm getting there!

[tedulrich]

Quick one.....are you running the soft synths through the Helix & then too the mixer? Or are you running the soft synths separately via the Macbook?

The Helix and soft synths from the MacBook run separately to my mixer.

[erniedenov]

1. Floor coupling is a big effect.   Is your 210 on the floor?  

 

       I have 2 110's on the floor, built patches and they were so thin and brittle in our PA, I had to redo them all.

 

I have an Alto TS212. I initially tweaked with it on the floor and had the same experience when I heard my patches through the PA. Once I bought a pole and mounted it, it was a whole different deal and I had to redo all of my patches too. I've yet to hear them through a PA, but I have confidence it's going to sound a whole lot better through one now.

 

I stood it up on the floor, helps a little. I got some better results as a tweaked yesterday. I think the main thing is I have always run two seperate cabs, I am used to the spread..so I ordered a second one last night;)

 

Whether you lay it on it's side or stand it up, there's still going to be a lot of floor coupling.

 

Yeah I was just used to the big sound of my stereo amps. I only had the one Alto so if I put my studio monitors on at the same time and gave me a little that spread. Looking forward to getting the other one in the mail soon period I am cutting all my cabs at 120 on the low end comma and anywhere from 4 to 13 on the highs depending on the patch I'm working with it sounds pretty good, I'm getting there!

 

I initially made my patches with the headphone jack in stereo, using my $500 Shure SE535 in-ear monitors. Everything sounded great through them, but aside from doing massive EQing using my Alto, some of those stereo effects being summed to mono didn't sound very good. I've since changed those effects to mono (had to do some re-tweaking with them too) and they sound much better, particularly the chorus. I'd love to get a second Alto and go stereo but for now I'm dealing with what I've got and trying to make the best of it.

[MusicLaw]

I've gotten really good sounding results using Shure SE530 IEMs with the Helix. The character of the sound translates quite well when monitoring via two Yamaha DXR10, or two JBL LSR308, regardless if run as Stereo or Mono. I do not have much experience with the Alto's aside from demoing them at several stores, but none of those sessions were with the Helix.