willjrock Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Of anyone has the time to do a null test before and after, that'd be great. Done similar questions were out soundly to bed that way a while ago. Sorry i was trying to stick it on the site player (and trying to be funny -its an empty file- which would be the result) and couldnt remember how at the moment, and am in a bit of a rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 So you didn't actually do the test, you just attached an empty file? If that's true, I'm glad you outed yourself, because that really WAS misinformation. I know you THINK nothing changed and the result would be dead silence, but that's pretty different from actually having proved it. The interwebs have enough wrongness in them without intentionally adding more because it's supposed to be funny. And please excuse if I'm completely misunderstanding you and being a jerk, I can be thick sometimes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug6String Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 This is truly entertaining. I have a strong opinion on the topic, but what's the point of one more! This thread does point out difficulty with all the requests for what IRs to use, what monitors , headphones, etc., are best. I have amazing tones I love with my helix and I suspect if many of you used them with your setup, you'd think I was insane. Many of you regulars have pointed this out in many posts and that helped me manage my expectations when I first got my Helix. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willjrock Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 So you didn't actually do the test, you just attached an empty file? If that's true, I'm glad you outed yourself, because that really WAS misinformation. I know you THINK nothing changed and the result would be dead silence, but that's pretty different from actually having proved it. The interwebs have enough wrongness in them without intentionally adding more because it's supposed to be funny. And please excuse if I'm completely misunderstanding you and being a jerk, I can be thick sometimes... No, i actually did the test,but the result was perfect silence, therefore the attached file is an accurate result, but the humor is in that there is no point of posting it. No offence taken, but i dont get on the internet and make claims about anything in this fashion, muchless those that are un provable. Im telling you i DID weigh the files against each other, and the result was silence, therefor the update did NOT change the sound of the Helix at ALL, in regards to the presets that are identical on 2.11 and 2.20.. Also - each person has to do the test themselvs for total accuracy. The only file i would be able to attach is the result of nulling the two files - which would be silence or very little sound, or the file used for reamping. Theres nothing else i or anyone could provide, so its either do the test for ones self or take my word for it. Probably not be all end all for tests, but FAR more than anyone starting a thread to say the update made their helix sound "way better" . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulu_m Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 No, i actually did the test,but the result was perfect silence, therefore the attached file is an accurate result, but the humor is in that there is no point of posting it. No offence taken, but i dont get on the internet and make claims about anything in this fashion, muchless those that are un provable. Im telling you i DID weigh the files against each other, and that.the result was silence, therefor the update did NOT change the sound of the Helix at ALL, in regards to the presets that are identical on 2.11 and 2.20.. Also - each person has to do the test themselvs for total accuracy. The only file i would be able to attach is the result of nulling the two files - which would be silence or very little sound, or the file used for reamping. Theres nothing else i or anyone could provide, so its either do the test for ones self or take my word for it. Probably not be all end all for tests, but FAR more than anyone starting a thread to say the update made their helix sound "way better" . Thank you for the facts, they speak for themselves​. Problem is, nowadays there are more and more who prefer to 'believe' and don't want to know facts that prove they're just imaginating things. It disturbes their worldview! It's so much easier to imagine things than to search for the truth, isn't it? :-) If all these 'believes' were just innocent ignorances, I would be the last one to complain about people 'believing', especially if it only concerns the sonic capacity of my beloved Helix, but​ unfortunately human history shows us, it's a bit more than innocent. Heil the great spaghetti monster, Amen ;-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Apologies Will, glad you did the thing and posted it, sorry to have misconstrued. So it's settled then, no change to the basic sound in 2.20, at least to the blocks Will tested. Good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkJarvis Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 Well for one thing i dont -re-amp. Second, all i am saying is that the factory presets (factory 1) did not sound good and for sure I did not listen to them again for several releases. When I installed 2.20 I thought i would just click through the factory presets and found them better than i remembered. Certainly nothing rigorous regarding testing and reverting back firmware (YUK!) so its just an opinion and not FACT. The DSP is optimized (seemingly) and I like the update, Is it everything I ever wanted from line 6 or a modeler? Well no but still its the right direction. Here is another recording I did live over the internet using Helix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 No, i actually did the test,but the result was perfect silence, therefore the attached file is an accurate result, but the humor is in that there is no point of posting it. No offence taken, but i dont get on the internet and make claims about anything in this fashion, muchless those that are un provable. Im telling you i DID weigh the files against each other, and the result was silence, therefor the update did NOT change the sound of the Helix at ALL, in regards to the presets that are identical on 2.11 and 2.20.. Also - each person has to do the test themselvs for total accuracy. The only file i would be able to attach is the result of nulling the two files - which would be silence or very little sound, or the file used for reamping. Theres nothing else i or anyone could provide, so its either do the test for ones self or take my word for it. Probably not be all end all for tests, but FAR more than anyone starting a thread to say the update made their helix sound "way better" . Thank you for the facts, they speak for themselves​. Problem is, nowadays there are more and more who prefer to 'believe' and don't want to know facts that prove they're just imaginating things. It disturbes their worldview! It's so much easier to imagine things than to search for the truth, isn't it? :-) If all these 'believes' were just innocent ignorances, I would be the last one to complain about people 'believing', especially if it only concerns the sonic capacity of my beloved Helix, but​ unfortunately human history shows us, it's a bit more than innocent. Heil the great spaghetti monster, Amen ;-) I really like what willjrock did here regarding his experiment although things got a bit awkward conversationally there for a second. I am not sure his sample size was large enough and additionally, in the spirit of the "scientific method", his experiment probably should be repeated by someone else, and his findings confirmed. Perhaps there were presets or factors that he did not test or the changes were extremely subtle. Replicating results and improving on testing methodology is an important part of the arriving at the truth of the matter (don't mean to make it sound like we are curing cancer here :P ). Ultimately though I truly appreciate that there was an honest effort made to substantiate an assertion with facts rather than opinion. Not saying that opinion does not turn out to be correct a certain percentage of the time but I personally am much more powerfully swayed by efforts like willj's to methodically offer proof. We try to replicate each other's findings when there are bugs reported so why not do it when advances are reported. Good on both willjrock for doing his best to investigate as well as lulu_m for providing an alternate if less embraced opinion. I admit I am still on the fence until more evidence comes in or my own ears dictate an anecdotal conclusion. Maybe the sound is better overall or on particular presets, maybe it is not. I am not yet convinced one way or the other but much like the way amsdenj resolved a question about IRs by extensively testing them I am a big fan of seeing people objectively provide evidence for their findings where possible. Hard evidence tends to make me lean towards its direction off that aforementioned fence I am currently sitting on. You know what they say about opinions and how everyone has one. I can be a lazy bastich when it come to issues like this and am always happy to see some folks motivated enough to break out the test tubes and beakers. I do appreciate the OP's enthusiasm about the new update and his claims may yet be substantiated but you have to tip your hat to the attempts at academic and scientific rigor applied periodically on this forum. In the words of Quentin Tarantino, there are some "big brains" on here. Occasionally their methods may be flawed (not saying that is the case here) and they may not always be correct but you have to give them props for the effort and how frequently their facts do end up bearing out. They provide some firma to the terra. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willjrock Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Well for one thing i dont -re-amp. Doesnt matter. The reamp is just used to conduct the test. all i am saying is that the factory presets (factory 1) did not sound good and for sure I did not listen to them Not sure what you are trying to say here. When I installed 2.20 I thought i would just click through the factory presets and found them better than i remembered Well your memory isnt so good, so may i suggest another course of action for comparing updates. The thing was that you claimed that they were "way" better. I really like what willjrock did here although things got a bit awkward there for a second. You may be right and some of it may be my fault but i just get tired of false claims being made on the net. Perhaps there were presets or factors that he did not test or the changes were extremely subtle Thought about that... didnt test any reverbs, and as we all know they ARE different to some extent. Im sure not enough to produce audible results, but they probably may cause discrepancies in a null test. How to factor that in i have no idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Just to be clear, Line 6 specifically says that the factory presets change from release to release. Any new models typically get showcased, and there's every reason to think existing presets may get tweaked too. Personally, that's not very important to me. If I use a factory preset as anything other then a demo, which is rare, I copy it into a user bank anyway, which has the side effect of isolating it from changes to the shipped version. What I think people really want to know is is if there have been changes to the underlying modeling engine. Given that the truth of that is proprietary math details, these kind of re-amping tests are the best we can do, and are IMO very valuable as exactly that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkJarvis Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 Hello HonestOpinion No offense at all here. I am sure you know your stuff. Can you post some of your playing and sounds you do with Helix? I would really like to hear some your work. Best MJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Hello HonestOpinion No offense at all here. I am sure you know your stuff. Can you post some of your playing and sounds you do with Helix? I would really like to hear some your work. Best MJ I appreciate the request but I am not much for posting my own stuff online here. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkJarvis Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 Cool, i can appreciate that. Here is something I recorded live over the internet and then added a video ( using Helix) The patch I used I created in Helix.... Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicimpossible Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I must say how pleased I am with the Variax connection - NOW ONLY ONE CABLE. Absolutely fantastic. Made my studio life a helluva lot easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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