twystedriffs Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Im getting some ok soinds at lower volumes, but when I turn up to anywhere near loud, it starts to show its rough edges. I am running my helix volume at about 11 oclock and using alto ts210's at about 12. It just seems that there is this sizzle on everything, especially single note passages, like cult of personality for example. Im gonna give this another week or so, then I may go back to helix into my amp system! Im cutting cabs and IRs, nothing seems to get rid of it. Pad is on..thanks, mostly venting after spending 450 on new speakers and feeling underwhelmed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvroberts Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Have you set up output EQ? Many will argue as to where you should do this and how much........ but if you go to Global EQ and put a big fall off at 100hz and another at 5.5Khz cutting the real lows and the highs that don't come out of a guitar speaker, you will probably be much happier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erniedenov Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Are you using "line" for XLR/quarter inch outs in the global settings? If not, you should. Just overturning stones here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBTL Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 The fizz your hearing is really high in the frequency range. A guitar doesn't go much beyond 6.5kHz. Cut it at the cab or global. If it's to rumble boomy lie cut to 80ish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Im cutting cabs and IRs, nothing seems to get rid of it. How are you cutting cabs/IRs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 For some guys for many reasons FRFR is not the best choice, but if you are going to keep trying. Make your cuts at the cabinet, NOT the global. Global is for fixing the room. Leave it until you need it in a bad sounding room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 For some guys for many reasons FRFR is not the best choice, but if you are going to keep trying. Make your cuts at the cabinet, NOT the global. Global is for fixing the room. Leave it until you need it in a bad sounding room. Not only that, but there are many, many cases where combinations of amps, cabs, mics and mic placement don't really require global cuts, or certainly don't need the same cuts as other combinations. If you're tweaking a preset, use your ears to get the best cut, if necessary, out of THAT setup. Otherwise you may be losing tone and articulation you might actually want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klangmaler Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 How are you cutting cabs/IRs? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Im getting some ok soinds at lower volumes, but when I turn up to anywhere near loud, it starts to show its rough edges. I am running my helix volume at about 11 oclock and using alto ts210's at about 12. It just seems that there is this sizzle on everything, especially single note passages, like cult of personality for example. Im gonna give this another week or so, then I may go back to helix into my amp system! Im cutting cabs and IRs, nothing seems to get rid of it. Pad is on..thanks, mostly venting after spending 450 on new speakers and feeling underwhelmed.. What you may be hearing is more based on where you are located relative to the speaker. FRFR cabinets are designed for long projections over distance. If you're standing too close you may be getting more of the sound from the horn than the blended sound of the horn and speaker.. Get further away until the horn and speaker blend better. It makes a significant difference. Also bear in mind you're listening for the sound as the audience hears it, which is different from the sound on the stage with an traditional cabinet. That in no way means it should sound bad, just a bit different. You might want to try combining cabs in parallel. For example, use a second cab split onto a second path with a ribbon mic placed on the outer edge of the cone about 1 or 2 inches away and mix the two to get the sound you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klangmaler Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 These discussions reappear very often... Many players seem incessantly looking for an amplifier sound, not for a mic'd amplifier sound. And understanding this means to listen to it at as the audience (or the soundguy) does... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHamm Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 What you may be hearing is more based on where you are located relative to the speaker. FRFR cabinets are designed for long projections over distance. If you're standing too close you may be getting more of the sound from the horn than the blended sound of the horn and speaker.. Get further away until the horn and speaker blend better. It makes a significant difference. Also bear in mind you're listening for the sound as the audience hears it, which is different from the sound on the stage with an traditional cabinet. That in no way means it should sound bad, just a bit different. You might want to try combining cabs in parallel. For example, use a second cab split onto a second path with a ribbon mic placed on the outer edge of the cone about 1 or 2 inches away and mix the two to get the sound you want. GOLDEN stuff here. This, btw, is why when I got an FRFR monitor, I got one with an 8" driver. Better at close distances, and not so boomy. Lastly, you HAVE TO TWEAK YOUR TONES at GIG VOLUME... They will sound "off" quieter, but if you adjust them to sound great quiet, they'll be bad loud... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twystedriffs Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 Thanks guys. I'm one of the guys that makes a patch for every song, so it's just a lot of work and I'm not happy with the results so far. I am trying to be subjective and listen to it as the sound man would period I am cutting my hi cuts on the cabs anywhere from 5 to 13 comma and I'm usually cutting the bottom and about 120. I have not most with the global at all. I may try sitting back a little bit I am right on it while I am tweaking my patches. Like I mentioned there's just a strange buzz on every note that I just find annoying. I have been playing guitar for 30 years but this is the first time I've ever run this way, so I think it's probably just going to take a little while to try and get used to it. Really appreciate your input though exclamation point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Nice cuts, and especially nice dovetail joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Thanks guys. I'm one of the guys that makes a patch for every song, so it's just a lot of work and I'm not happy with the results so far. I am trying to be subjective and listen to it as the sound man would period I am cutting my hi cuts on the cabs anywhere from 5 to 13 comma and I'm usually cutting the bottom and about 120. I have not most with the global at all. I may try sitting back a little bit I am right on it while I am tweaking my patches. Like I mentioned there's just a strange buzz on every note that I just find annoying. I have been playing guitar for 30 years but this is the first time I've ever run this way, so I think it's probably just going to take a little while to try and get used to it. Really appreciate your input though exclamation point I do the same thing...a patch per song. That leaves me plenty of DSP space to get the patch where I want it, although I seldom come very close other than if I use 2048 sized IRs. Here's how I have mine set up when I'm doing my patches and maybe it will help you. I have my speaker (Yamaha DXR12) at about 4 or 5 feet off of the ground. Even though I normally set mine on the floor as a floor monitor when I play, I still leave my speaker settings for floor monitor so it reduces the very low bass levels that would normally couple with the floor, and I have my low cutoff set on the speaker for 120hz which matches the crossover from our subs to the fronts. That's pretty representative of the frequency response profile of most modern PA speakers. I have a small 4 channel mixer (Alesis) that I plug my XLR L/Mono into and I run 1/4 inch L/Mono out to the speaker. The speaker volume is set at 50%. The purpose for the mixer is to allow me to see the line input levels visually on the mixer's VU display. I set my Helix master volume at probably just a tad below 11 o'clock when I'm working with my patches, the gain on the mixer is set to 50%, so my levels on the meter linger around -3 to -6db. When I turn up to performance level at just below 12 o'clock on the Helix master volume, that puts the meters pretty much right at unity or 0db on the meters. When playing the patches I try to stand about 5 to 6 feet away from the speaker which gives me a pretty good sense of how they'll sound live out of the FOH speakers. On stage I have the same settings on the speakers as I do at the house, but I place the speaker on the floor behind me which allows everyone in the band to get a good mix from my speaker. None of our instruments come through the house monitors, only the voices. Because of the way I do this there's rarely any adjustment that needs to be made at the soundboard because all of my patches come into the channel pretty much right at unity with no need for EQ, which is where they should be with only slight bumps for leads. Hope that helps... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunpointmetal Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 You definitely need to build your live patches at something close to the volume you'd expect to be playing at in the context. If you dialed in a real amp at bedroom levels then cranked it, it wouldn't sound very good, probably boomy, shrill, and farty. I second avoiding the global EQ when building patches, get it where you want in the patch itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingsCool Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 You definitely need to build your live patches at something close to the volume you'd expect to be playing at in the context. If you dialed in a real amp at bedroom levels then cranked it, it wouldn't sound very good, probably boomy, shrill, and farty. I second avoiding the global EQ when building patches, get it where you want in the patch itself. And, as was previously mentioned, give yourself at least 5 ft of distance to the speakers. Gotta get to a point where the speaker and tweeters are mixed sufficiently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twystedriffs Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 So the second alto came in today, I put em both in the air, and wow, sounding great. Wondering if because I use so many dual amps and paths that going out left/mono was just making things compress together? We are close now, and yes I run my helix into my korg d3200 for live recordings and it also has a decent meter to help me adjust my volumes. Thanks yall!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twystedriffs Posted April 6, 2017 Author Share Posted April 6, 2017 So the second alto came in today, I put em both in the air, and wow, sounding great. Wondering if because I use so many dual amps and paths that going out left/mono was just making things compress together? We are close now, and yes I run my helix into my korg d3200 for live recordings and it also has a decent meter to help me adjust my volumes. Thanks yall!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 So the second alto came in today, I put em both in the air, and wow, sounding great. Wondering if because I use so many dual amps and paths that going out left/mono was just making things compress together? We are close now, and yes I run my helix into my korg d3200 for live recordings and it also has a decent meter to help me adjust my volumes. Thanks yall!! I doubt it was your dual amps/dual paths. I run plenty of these types of patches out of my L/Mono output and have no problems. I suspect it's more likely due to changing your position relative to the speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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