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jwoertz

Anything compare to open back tube combo effects return?

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I've had my Helix LT for a few days now and am loving it. Ive tried it connected in all kinds of ways but the best sounding by far is using the Helix LT's amps and then going straight into the effects return of my Peavey ValveKing II 50-watt open-back combo. The sound just comes to life, especially when I use a pre-amp like the Fender Deluxe.

 

So this opens up the question, can any FRFR speakers come close to that open-back sound? Should I keep the Peavey or will something else work?

 

This is maddening - too many options HA HA!

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Here's the first thing to understand about modeling at this level.

 

There are essentially two popular ways to use the Helix.  One is similar to what you're doing which is to focus on getting what's referred to as an "amp in the room" sound.  This is usually achieved by running the Helix through an existing amp.  This gives you the big sound of an amp with the downside that the signal you then send to the mixing board will not be the same as what you're hearing on stage.  If you don't normally send your instruments through  a PA, then there's no problem.  If you do you will either have to mic your amp (which changes the sound to the PA because of the mic and it's placement on the amp) or develop a second signal chain that sends a fully formed modeled signal direct to the PA separate from the one you send to the amp on stage.  That, of course, can be somewhat hit-or-miss.

 

In lieu of that many of us opt to leave traditional amps behind and use Full Range Flat Response (FRFR) speakers such as an Alto TS210 or Yamaha DXR10 or any number of others that respond in the same way as a PA speaker does, because they are, in essence, PA speakers.  This allows us to completely form the output we want and send it both to our on stage monitor as well as a direct line of that same patch to the PA.  What we hear on stage will be what the audience hears through the PA.  The downside to that is that it will not be what you would typically refer to as an "amp in the room" sound.  Instead it's more like the studio reference speakers in the control room of a recording studio.

 

Bear in mind, this is more important to you than it is to your audience.  You're audience rarely gets the effect of the "amp in the room" unless they're in a small room with your amp.  But it is important to some guitar players who want that sound.  Your audience is already used to hearing the production quality sound of the guitar because that's what they commonly listen to on the radio or on their stereos or in every concert they've ever attended.  But that amp sound and feel may be important to you to inspire you.

 

So that's kind of the lay of the land in these parts pardner....  I should mention, however, that mastering the elements in producing a full studio production quality sound takes quite a bit more knowledge and effort than simply plugging into an amp, but for a lot of us it's worth it.  I view my Helix as a full recording studio environment that I take with me to live gigs, and I approach my patches in the same manner I would were I putting together the physical elements in a recording studio.  I get comments every week from my band and from the audience about my sound and how real and polished it sounds.  It's taken me a while to learn how to do that effectively..and I'm still learning, but now that I've accomplished it, I could never be satisfied going back to an amp.

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Here's the first thing to understand about modeling at this level.

 

There are essentially two popular ways to use the Helix.  One is similar to what you're doing which is to focus on getting what's referred to as an "amp in the room" sound.  This is usually achieved by running the Helix through an existing amp.  This gives you the big sound of an amp with the downside that the signal you then send to the mixing board will not be the same as what you're hearing on stage.  If you don't normally send your instruments through  a PA, then there's no problem.  If you do you will either have to mic your amp (which changes the sound to the PA because of the mic and it's placement on the amp) or develop a second signal chain that sends a fully formed modeled signal direct to the PA separate from the one you send to the amp on stage.  That, of course, can be somewhat hit-or-miss.

 

In lieu of that many of us opt to leave traditional amps behind and use Full Range Flat Response (FRFR) speakers such as an Alto TS210 or Yamaha DXR10 or any number of others that respond in the same way as a PA speaker does, because they are, in essence, PA speakers.  This allows us to completely form the output we want and send it both to our on stage monitor as well as a direct line of that same patch to the PA.  What we hear on stage will be what the audience hears through the PA.  The downside to that is that it will not be what you would typically refer to as an "amp in the room" sound.  Instead it's more like the studio reference speakers in the control room of a recording studio.

 

Bear in mind, this is more important to you than it is to your audience.  You're audience rarely gets the effect of the "amp in the room" unless they're in a small room with your amp.  But it is important to some guitar players who want that sound.  Your audience is already used to hearing the production quality sound of the guitar because that's what they commonly listen to on the radio or on their stereos or in every concert they've ever attended.  But that amp sound and feel may be important to you to inspire you.

 

So that's kind of the lay of the land in these parts pardner....  I should mention, however, that mastering the elements in producing a full studio production quality sound takes quite a bit more knowledge and effort than simply plugging into an amp, but for a lot of us it's worth it.  I view my Helix as a full recording studio environment that I take with me to live gigs, and I approach my patches in the same manner I would were I putting together the physical elements in a recording studio.  I get comments every week from my band and from the audience about my sound and how real and polished it sounds.  It's taken me a while to learn how to do that effectively..and I'm still learning, but now that I've accomplished it, I could never be satisfied going back to an amp.

 

 

Thanks for all the info. Not sure I'd like the FRFR setup. Might go with a Mission Gemini 1 or something though. You can open up the back of the cabinet if desired. The Alto and Yamaha mentioned above aren't FRFR though. Not even close right? Just powered PA speakers. Would love to find a true FRFR powered speaker!

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