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Here's an idea... what if it was more like a strobe tuner as an option? I really think most folk's problem is that it's actually a more accurate tuner than most, and they're seeing a higher degree of accuracy, and therefor a higher degree of hysteresis. I say this having A/Bd the Helix tuner against my PolyTune and my Strobostomp.

 

When you use a strobe tuner, there's a LOT more information to see - and you realize that you'll NEVER get the guitar in perfect tune for more than 500ms. It's just physics. I think it would help a lot of users adjust to this reality.

 

Respectfully,

Dave

I don't think that the "problem" is that it's more "accurate" lol

 

The problem is that it can't seem to "capture" the note and allow you to tune up quickly and efficiently. It's not more accurate than my Korg rackmount tuner. Exact same specs. And yet my Korg doesn't have the stability issues that the Helix tuner has.

 

As I said earlier...one of the selling points in advertising for most tuners I bought since the 1970's was the ability to zero in on the note you are tuning. It was a big selling point. People don't have time to tune endlessly. It needs to be quick and accurate. 

 

The Helix tuner kinda goes all over the place on my unit with my guitars. No other tuner I own or have ever owned does that.  Makes it hard to figure out if you are in tune or not when you tune a string and finally get it to be "in tune" on Helix. And then pluck it again...and it shows completely out of tune. :(

 

Frustrating and time consuming. 

 

That's why I finally just stuck my Boss TU-12 in front of my Helix. Now I'm in tune fast and everything sounds good onstage. 

Hopefully this will get fixed one day and I will no longer need that small tuner and can use that big, beautiful display on the Helix.

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Here's an idea... what if it was more like a strobe tuner as an option? I really think most folk's problem is that it's actually a more accurate tuner than most, and they're seeing a higher degree of accuracy, and therefor a higher degree of hysteresis. I say this having A/Bd the Helix tuner against my PolyTune and my Strobostomp.

 

When you use a strobe tuner, there's a LOT more information to see - and you realize that you'll NEVER get the guitar in perfect tune for more than 500ms. It's just physics. I think it would help a lot of users adjust to this reality.

 

Respectfully,

Dave

 

 

Dude used the word hysteresis in casual conversation. You win the internet, sir.

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I second this question. How do we best go about reaching out to L6 to make them aware of this matter?

Believe me, they're not oblivious to it. This is hardly the first thread full of "the tuner sucks" rants (Granularity anyone? ;) )...others having been commented on rather extensively by at least one L6 "official". I just don't think it's very high on their list of things to do...

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Here's an idea... what if it was more like a strobe tuner as an option? I really think most folk's problem is that it's actually a more accurate tuner than most, and they're seeing a higher degree of accuracy, and therefor a higher degree of hysteresis. I say this having A/Bd the Helix tuner against my PolyTune and my Strobostomp.

 

When you use a strobe tuner, there's a LOT more information to see - and you realize that you'll NEVER get the guitar in perfect tune for more than 500ms. It's just physics. I think it would help a lot of users adjust to this reality.

 

Respectfully,

Dave

 

Currently, the screen on the Helix doesn't have a refresh rate high enough to support a strobe tuner... That's not set in stone, though. But I imagine updating that would probably mean updating other stuff as well.

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Currently, the screen on the Helix doesn't have a refresh rate high enough to support a strobe tuner... That's not set in stone, though. But I imagine updating that would probably mean updating other stuff as well.

 

When using amps I got used to always having a stobe tuner with +- 0.1 accuracy. Now with the Helix I use the strobe tuner before the Helix. It would be nice to have a built in tuner with 0.1 accuracy but I understand the current limitations and competing demands.

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Currently, the screen on the Helix doesn't have a refresh rate high enough to support a strobe tuner... That's not set in stone, though. But I imagine updating that would probably mean updating other stuff as well.

I didn't even think about that. Refresh rate would also poo poo the idea of an output VU meter. 

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When using amps I got used to always having a stobe tuner with +- 0.1 accuracy. Now with the Helix I use the strobe tuner before the Helix. It would be nice to have a built in tuner with 0.1 accuracy but I understand the current limitations and competing demands.

 

How do you realize tuning with 0.1 ct accuracy? :o

 

All my stringed instruments vary minimum 4 cent from attac to release, basses even more. I can withour effort change the tuning  by 11 to 15 cent  just by beding the neck a little bit, bass even more.

With normal tuning heads, it's not possible to me to adjust with more than 1 cent accuracy. Even setting up the bridge or (compensed) saddle for intonation does'nt require this precision. And i work a lot with this things. The only instrument i have with a bit more stable behaviour is my full cabon electric (called "tank towing bar" by some people ;) ) and even for this, 1 cent is quite enough.

 

At guitar E 82.4 Hz, 0,1 Cent is about 0,0049 Hz. Shure you need this? We talk about a more or less flexible instrument where strings vary their tension while swinging while the neck vibrates.......

 

 

I would rather like to have a bit less nervous behavier of the tuner instead of 0.1 ct. 

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My point is - for me it was easy to put a good tuner in front of the Helix and I would rather Line 6 use their resources to continue to improve the quality of the amps and cabs and variety of effects in the Helix. FWIW, I have repeatedly used 1 cent tuners and .1 cent tuners and I prefer the results from the .1 cent tuners. Use whatever works for you.

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How do you realize tuning with 0.1 ct accuracy? :o

 

 

yup, the "tuner sucks" argument always come down to people with "golden hearing" or some such. I have doubts about it every. single. time.

 

The few ms between initial attack and note bloom on my guitars will sometimes see a difference in pitch unless I hit them really lightly.

 

And let's not even go to the whole fretting a note thing...

 

Many of the tuner complainers are measurebaters. (not saying any of YOU who posted here are, of course...)

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yup, the "tuner sucks" argument always come down to people with "golden hearing" or some such. I have doubts about it every. single. time.

I don't see that at all. 

 

All the people (like me) saying the tuner is hard to use are saying it jumps all over the place and isn't stable. Nobody is saying it's not "accurate" enough. 

Just the opposite. Almost every person who says the tuner is just fine has talked about how accurate it IS. 

 

Where do you get that people asking for the tuner to be more stable and useable are saying that they have some kind of golden perfect pitch?

 

Jesus....all I'm asking for is the tuner to calm down and be stable so I can quickly tune the freakin' guitar. No way anybody is gonna  hear a .01 cent difference in anything. 

 

Why are we even discussing stupid stuff like that? All I want is to be able to tune my guitar quickly without the note "jumping" all over the place on the Helix. I don't want to spend more than 6 seconds at the most tuning my guitar. And I never have had to over the course of playing professionally since 1978. 

 

I think answers like the one you just gave are what causes this issue to be a bigger deal than it should be.

The tuner is not good. It's jumpy. 

SO...I put a tuner that works fast in front of the Helix. 

I hope that they fix it one day so I can finally get to use that big beautiful display screen to tune. 

 

That's all. No need for insults and arguments about tuning. I'm 100% confident that everyone on this forum can tune their guitar with or without a guitar tuner. 

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That's all. No need for insults and arguments about tuning. I'm 100% confident that everyone on this forum can tune their guitar with or without a guitar tuner. 

^This^

 

Some people like the tuner, some do not. Some like the reverbs, some do not. Some like the on-board cabs, some do not. It's all a matter of taste, and taste is subjective to the user.

 

That's the beauty of Helix: options.... I don't like amp model X, so I don't use amp model X. I don't like the tuner, so I don't use the tuner. Everyone has at least one thing they don't care about on the Helix. Some people just don't know how to articulate that they don't prefer something, and just label it as "sucks."

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I am surprised at the number of people who are happy with the tuner. I know 2 other guys that have Helixes(sp??), and all three of us use another tuner, despite the inconvenience (however slight), because the onboard tuner is so jumpy. That is 0 for 3.Not a great batting average.

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Yeah it sucks - Used my Helix live for the first time last weekend and tried tuning with it and it was horrible.  Seemed I finally got tuned, but then I was way off when playing again  Luckily I had a cheap little D'Addario headstock tuner on the my guitar and fired that up instead.

 

It's absurd that with all the greatness of the Helix, they can't get one of the most basic guitar needs right.  I understand those that say they rather have Line6 focus on other things, but if that is the case, then removed it completely from the unit, instead of providing a half baked feature.

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yup, the "tuner sucks" argument always come down to people with "golden hearing" or some such. I have doubts about it every. single. time.

 

...

 

Many of the tuner complainers are measurebaters. (not saying any of YOU who posted here are, of course...)

 

Sorry but I don't think either of these statements is entirely accurate (or granular ;)  ).  I agree the "tuner sucks" does not fairly recognize its strong points but I understand the sentiment and those very words have rolled around in my own head more than once. If these folks had "golden hearing" they would tune without a tuner. Most of them are not claiming to have hearing that rivals the treasure troves of Aztec kings. I know a couple of guitarists whose innate pitch detection is so dead on that they just reach up during a song and tune their strings almost perfectly. No tuner required. That is not me, I am envious of that talent and how good their ears are. I can tune pretty quickly with harmonics but don't want to subject an audience to that through the PA. So I need a decent tuner, it does not need to be perfect, just reasonably accurate, granular, and most of all it needs to settle down for a long enough moment for me to have a solid reference point.

 

Regarding accuracy and granularity, sure there are some "measurebaters" out there, no doubt. I am not a huge fan of their posts either as I believe they undermine the push to get the tuner fixed, but they are entitled to their opinions. A lot of users though are just noting the differences they find between the usability of their other tuners and the lack thereof with the Helix tuner. Most of those complaints are valid and some not so much. I disregard the true measurebaters but you are in jeopardy of suffering the same fate of being marginalized as you are starting to behave a bit like a tuner"baiter". As in you keep baiting your fellow forum users by throwing out unnecessary posts that diminish the opinions and observations of many of the users regarding this issue. You have clearly lost objectivity on this issue or have not experimented with a wide enough array of guitars during a performance. How can you honestly dismiss this many users' opinions about something that is so visually and starkly obvious to so many of us?  C'mon Peter, put down the Kool-Aid and wake up and smell the coffee, it's very "granular" but won't settle down and keeps splashing out of the cup. You are having way too much fun with this topic, please help us get this thing addressed. That would be way more fun for everybody.

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...

 

Some people like the tuner, some do not. Some like the reverbs, some do not. Some like the on-board cabs, some do not. It's all a matter of taste, and taste is subjective to the user.

 

...

 

I think this statement applies much better to more subjective things like the sound of a particular amp or effect. To me the observation that the tuner is jumpy and unusable for a wide swath of guitarists who are trying to use it for performance seems much more objective and cannot just be relegated to the realm of different "tastes".

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yup, the "tuner sucks" argument always come down to people with "golden hearing" or some such. I have doubts about it every. single. time.

 

.)

Poppycock, irrational, unfounded post, Peter. Tuner issues arise 100% from the unstable visual feedback provided by the tuner. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with auditory capabilities.

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^This^

 

Some people like the tuner, some do not. Some like the reverbs, some do not. Some like the on-board cabs, some do not. It's all a matter of taste, and taste is subjective to the user.

 

That's the beauty of Helix: options.... I don't like amp model X, so I don't use amp model X. I don't like the tuner, so I don't use the tuner. Everyone has at least one thing they don't care about on the Helix. Some people just don't know how to articulate that they don't prefer something, and just label it as "sucks."

The tuner is not a model with esoteric tonal qualities. It is a standard tool, with small variations from brand to brand but they all work the same way with the same principle in mind, getting in tune quickly, accurately and efficiently. It’s a fact. The issue at hand is the tuner is failing at this.

 

I have NEVER come across a tuner that will not allow me to tune to pitch, and I’ve used every kind (at least every popular one) for the past couple of decades and they work flawlessly (although some people might prefer one model or another). Using any and all of those tuners as a baseline I can safely say the Helix tuner is not allowing me, and quite obviously many others to tune quickly, accurately and efficiently. In our perspective this IS a problem and we would appreciate it being solved by making Helix as good a tuner as every other one we have used before.

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It's time that this perpetuating thread be manifest as a Poll on the TGP Forums.

 

To measure the two camps regarding opinions of Helix's Tuner stability (steady enough for me vs way too jumpy and erratic), the following Poll is now on TGP Forums:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/helixs-tuner-how-do-you-feel-about-its-stability.1825918/

 

Cast your vote!

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It's time that this perpetuating thread be manifest as a Poll on the TGP Forums.

 

To measure the two camps regarding opinions of Helix's Tuner stability (steady enough for me vs way too jumpy and erratic), the following Poll is now on TGP Forums:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/helixs-tuner-how-do-you-feel-about-its-stability.1825918/

 

Cast your vote!

Voted!

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Should access to the tuner be password protected? ðŸ¿

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Should access to the tuner be password protected?

Good One!!! ROTFL!!!

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A poll?

Ridiculous.

Glad I have a tuner in front of Helix. If line 6 fixes it then great. If not, you guys can vote on a poll. :)

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It's time that this perpetuating thread be manifest as a Poll on the TGP Forums.

 

To measure the two camps regarding opinions of Helix's Tuner stability (steady enough for me vs way too jumpy and erratic), the following Poll is now on TGP Forums:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/helixs-tuner-how-do-you-feel-about-its-stability.1825918/

 

Cast your vote!

Thanks for starting the poll! I do have a couple of reservations about it and they are the same concerns I have with political polls. The way you phrase the question has an enormous impact on the poll's results. Who you end up sampling makes a big difference as well. In this case my concern is that the group that needs to be sampled are those who are using the tuner for stage. That is not specified either in the question nor is that specific group targeted in the poll. You would need to either poll only those using it for stage or ask the question a bit differently, e.g. "Does this tuner perform up to the general standard set by other commonly available tuners for stage use? : Yes, No, or I don't know." I could probably refine the verbiage there a bit better, but you get the idea.

 

I think we have already established that the tuner may be ok with a lot of folks for studio usage and those people will skew the results as they have been included in the poll. We are primarily looking to find out how people who use it for performance and band practice feel about it; situations where there is substantial pressure to tune quickly. Still, this does give us some new data points from all types of users and I appreciate that you took the initiative. I do agree with robbie61 to a certain extent though. We don't need no stinking polls, if it walks like an ugly duckling, and quacks like an ugly duckling, it is probably a beautiful swan. Wait a second, mixing metaphors and fairy tales here. Anyway, let's hurry up and get to the swan part of the tuner's life cycle already.

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Pehaps this discussion is a bit difficult cause we're talking about two different aspects?

 

- tuner is jumpy in detail: Yes it is :) The more accurate the tuner ist, the more it's jumpy just because a guitar is jumpy and this is shown by the tuner ;).

- tuner is jumpy in common: Sometimes - Yes. I feel that the global tracking of notes ist a bit nervous. It seems so me, that the helix reacts more sensible to any disorder of the base frequency and it gets more sensible the lower the input signal is. So sometimes it needs time to recognize the note and sometimes it looses the note as the signal gets weaker.

 

A good software tuner for smartphone does indeed a better job by the build in microphone, so i use this for settig up an instrument.

In both cases, some points help to get more stable values, where the helix tuner ist still more sensible to these points:

- don't bend your neck while tuning!  (at least not the guitars neck :D )

- carefully damping all other strings and even unused parts of the tuning string makes tuning more stable - Helix reacts extreme sensible to this point -more than other devices

- Using the neck pickup helps a bit and even turning tone on the guitar (if available) down makes things better as it seems to reduce the signal as far as possible to the base frequency.

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I agree the tuner is appreciatively accurate....

 

My solution would be to add a optional 'sensitivity knob'.

Similar to that found in "peak dB meters". Whereby an A rating would measure peaks levelss but jump around quickly... But the B rating presents more of an average.

The difference being that A weighting would be as it is, the default.

The B weighting would have a 10ms look ahead time... Or median algorithm.

 

I'm not sure if the tuner itself is bound directly to each patch or paths processing power... But there isn't a need for immediacy I.e extra 50ms for the tuner to load a second weighting.

 

The tuner isn't broken....

But I use a Guage 10.5 to 48 mil strings in drop C on a 25.5 inch scale length guitar.

So deep strings go all over the place... Same with the G string (or F in my tuning)

 

The way I get around it at the moment is tuning e guitar to frequent string strikes.

However I haven't tried the neck pickup, tone done method... Which IMO highlights there is a problem with the tuner.

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A poll?

Ridiculous.

Glad I have a tuner in front of Helix. If line 6 fixes it then great. If not, you guys can vote on a poll. :)

This was my first thought, too, but:

 

If you read those comments (on TGP under the poll), some folks would be surprised

(so was I)...

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It's time that this perpetuating thread be manifest as a Poll on the TGP Forums.

 

To measure the two camps regarding opinions of Helix's Tuner stability (steady enough for me vs way too jumpy and erratic), the following Poll is now on TGP Forums:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/helixs-tuner-how-do-you-feel-about-its-stability.1825918/

 

Cast your vote!

 

Despite my reservations about it, the results so far for the poll are quite interesting. Have only checked it a couple of times but I have seen the number tip over 40% at one point for people who think the tuner is too jumpy.  I don't want to come off as overly critical of the poll as I appreciate the effort but I did want to point something out and this goes back to how important the formulation of the poll question is. Here are the two questions in your poll:

  •  

    Helix's Tuner Stability is Steady Enough for Me!

     

    40 vote(s)

    62.5%

  •  

    Helix's Tuner Stability is Way Too Jumpy and Erratic for me!

     

    24 vote(s)

    37.5%

     

You will notice that the first question asking essentially "who likes the tuner as it is now" is phrased in very neutral language, e.g. "Helix's Tuner Stability is Steady Enough for Me!". In other words 'Does it hit a minimal threshold of usability?'. The second question asking if there is a problem with it uses language that requires a response to a much more dramatic and extreme question, e.g. "Helix's Tuner Stability is Way Too Jumpy and Erratic for me!". The use of "Way too Jumpy" as well as the word "Erratic" require the user to have a much more substantial level of dissatisfaction with the tuner, than the moderate level of satisfaction required for the other question. Might seem like splitting hairs but the impact of those two questions is quite different and again, they will skew the results. I think it is significant how many votes for jumpy tuner there have been despite a poll that could use some editing. I guess the one benefit of having phrased the question this way is we will discover how many voters are extremely and "way too" dissatisfied with this tuner.  ;)

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I have to say I sold my all my pedals to buy the LT and the one pedal I regret selling is my Boss TU3. I could carry out my own setups with the TU3 and now I can't. The Helix tuner is not good..in fact its poor.

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This was my first thought, too, but:

 

If you read those comments (on TGP under the poll), some folks would be surprised

(so was I)...

 

The responses on TGP were interesting and somewhat reflective of what we have been seeing here. One thing for sure is that we have two forums that have confirmed that there is a certain and IMO substantial percentage of users that think the tuner has a problem. As always the forum users tend to represent a larger constituency or users who do not post.

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[...] there is a certain and IMO substantial percentage of users that think the tuner has a problem. As always the forum users tend to represent a larger constituency or users who do not post.

Right now:

       How do you feel about Helix's Tuner Stability?
  1. Helix's Tuner Stability is Steady Enough for Me!
    40 vote(s)   62.5%
  2. Helix's Tuner Stability is Way Too Jumpy and Erratic for me!
    24 vote(s)   37.5%

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Right now:

       How do you feel about Helix's Tuner Stability?

 

  • Helix's Tuner Stability is Steady Enough for Me!

    40 vote(s)   62.5%

  • Helix's Tuner Stability is Way Too Jumpy and Erratic for me!

    24 vote(s)   37.5%

It's hardly a scientific poll with 64 respondents is it? If you did a poll of an industry standard stomp box tuner such as the TU3 with only 64 respondents I bet you would get 63 people stating its a great tuner. The fact that 1/3 of the respondents of the poll thought the tuner is deficient should send alarm bells ringing at L6....

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My 2 cents - pun intended.

 

I'm using Helix for live shows with my amp, for recording the whole band at rehearsal, in my home studio for scratch recording work.   It does just about everything great, and keeps getting better.   Except for the tuner.   It gives me anxiety.   It kicks up some OCD in me I never knew I had.   Helix works so well for everything else, that I was blaming the tuners on my guitars, the environment, my brain and even a ghost for interfering with my tuning with Helix.   I now carry a snark around with me.   Which gives me another sort of anxiety, because I can never remember which gig bag/guitar case I left it in last.   

 

Line6, yes, work on new fx, cabs, amps, etc.   But for the love of all things guitar, make the tuner better.  Helix is my be all end all pedal board/modeler/recording interface for so many things.  Give it a little love for guys like me.   Then maybe I can see my therapist less often.

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If it's of any consolation the Fractal Axe-Fx Tuner is shocking too. When I had my Helix the tuner always bugged me as being unnecessarily awkward and inaccurate so I ended up using a TC Polytune

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I use a polytune 2. I just could not get along with the tuner, and I've used the tuners in many rack mount units and pedals. Perhaps I need to take advantage of the offset feature, but I always find that while it'll tune individual strings, when I play fourths it's way off. I'm constantly fighting B and G and bar chords when I use the Helix tuner. No issues with a Polytune. Perhaps its accuracy is the issue? I don't actually like the sound of a perfectly tuned guitar, because it's not possible to get all chords in tune simultaneously. Isn't that why alternate tuning systems and microtonal fret guitars exist?

 

Is it possible that most other tuners steer you to a middle of the road tuning? I don't have a strobe to check it.

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On a lark, I decided to use my TC Polytune Clip this weekend... never used the Helix's tuner again the rest of the night.

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Helix is amazing - I'm a huge fan

 

But the tuner is crap. Whatever approach has been taken isn't ideal and it should be simple to sort.

 

If the reason it is 'fine' is because you can adopt and extremely prescriptive procedure to make it ok then - well come on - think about it - hardly great

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I use a polytune 2. I just could not get along with the tuner, and I've used the tuners in many rack mount units and pedals. Perhaps I need to take advantage of the offset feature, but I always find that while it'll tune individual strings, when I play fourths it's way off. I'm constantly fighting B and G and bar chords when I use the Helix tuner. No issues with a Polytune. Perhaps its accuracy is the issue? I don't actually like the sound of a perfectly tuned guitar, because it's not possible to get all chords in tune simultaneously. Isn't that why alternate tuning systems and microtonal fret guitars exist?

 

Is it possible that most other tuners steer you to a middle of the road tuning? I don't have a strobe to check it.

My Korg rackmount tuner has the exact same specs as the Helix specs on the tuner accuracy. 

Never had any problem with tuning with the Korg quickly and accurately.

 

The Helix tuner? No such luck. Jumpy, and like you...I don't find the guitar to be in tune afterwards. Probably because I'm never sure IF it's in tune when I use the Helix tuner because when I finally get a note "in tune" on the Helix, I can pluck it again and it's not in tune according to the Helix. 

I've never seen a tuner as inconsistent. :(

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It is extremely jumpy anc I'm using both a variax and a "regular" guitar. It has improved a bit but it is very jumpy. I've compared it against two pedal tuners and they are much better. I pulled out my hd500 and it was much better. This is actually a very frustrating issue because I don't want to have to carry additional pedals to gigs. This should just work properly.

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This time, I don't come up with my usual gif.

BUT again my hint concerning the tuner settings:

Double check what you really want to tune - and what cable(s) you have to put in...

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