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Helix High Gain


jrrjr68
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Ok. .

I have been working feverishly and losing sleep trying to get my sound.

Buy sound I'm talking my Mesa Boogie dual rectifier Half Stack.. previously I have been running and hd500x with a Mesa simulation cut back straight into my Amp with no effects other than wah for my solos.

Honestly. . I think I'm pretty close.

In Line 6 benefit I think it sounds really close to my live rig. I am 95% sold and that's why I'm posting because I really like this pedal.

At times I hear things I don't like.

At other times it sounds amazing.

I know with all the different parameters and settings one little change can affect my tone hugely.

I have tried the low cuts and the high cuz and all of that.. I've added multiple cabs,cab-IR combos, parametric EQ before the amp, and after the amp and on channel B, IR'S free and purchased, dual amps, multiple cabs.. In the mix, without.

Everybody talks about cutting the low in the highs excetera excetera.

With my 500x I would just do it after I recorded it with Waves plugins High Pass filters and C4 C6 compressors excetera.

I would love to think I could get a good sound without all of that out of this unit.

Ahhhhggggg!

B

I am running a Dean explorer with KFK EMG's 81-85 I believe.

Sonar Pro.. 24-88

Global EQ Low cut 120.. high cut 5 or 6?

I've been reading a lot about this and if I cut the five or so it seems like I'm killing my tone.

I've tried compressing. . Which I've never had to do before.

I'm sure there's a huge learning curve here to match a real rig.

 

What's your secret for a good metal tone on this. ..thing?

This. Mutant guitar amp speaker mic thing in a box.

 

By metal tone I mean Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, Slayer... but I am open for suggestions.

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Sounds very familiar. I've been struggling with getting the big bold rectifier sound. Almost ready to give up on Helix. A forum member suggested I try the Ownhammer California duo IRs.

 

Huge difference. I was stepping through the pack and hit OH1 and OH2, and went "holy $h!t". Helix finally sounds like an amp, and not an 🎤 'd up Pod. Your mileage may vary, but for me these specific IRs are the closest thing I've found to my recto cab since....well, my recto cab. Big but not boomy, thick, saturated, presence without harshness. Low cut at 70, high cut at 7k.

 

 

If you've ever loaded up the stock vintage 30 cab and then cycled through the mic options, then you probably know what I mean about the "tin can Kermit the frog" sound. For me, when I loaded up the OH1 it seemed like I had unplugged whatever EQ was killing my tone.

 

Full disclaimer, I have not played live with the band using these, not until Monday. But given the fact that I can lower the low cut, raise the high cut, and have far less boomy/tin can thing, I'm hopeful it'll solve my stage volume and mix issues as well.

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A forum member suggested I try the Ownhammer California duo IRs.

 

I almost bought those. Instead I went with the Ownhammer Mesa 4x12. I'm not thrilled. 

I guess I don't get it I add noise gate, wah, amp, then speaker.. (sounds like garbage).

Then I split signal with another speaker on the lower chain before merge mixer.. then it FINALLY starts sounding close.. but ... yeah no. 

I see tons of videos for blues and brown sounds but Line 6 doesn't have any catering to the metal musicians. 

At least none that I have found. 

PS. EVERY preset I've downloaded has been a train wreck. I do have experience with these things so I'm not completely digi-illiterate.

Hopefully someone can help before my 30 days are up because right now I feel like I'm wasting time when I should be recording. 

:angry: 

 

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Actually I just discovered if I change the "multi" out to USB 1/2 and set Level to +5 and it drastically changed everything.
recording sounds pretty great I still need to dial in my sound with the new setting but I think it's going to work.

This is a demo of "monster" I'm working on. 
2 ryhthm tracks, 1 solo track. so far lol 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_DwDsB1ebWEQ21hT0JaYzByUFk



 

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BTW, don't use the noise gate on the input block.  Especially for high gain.  If you must have a gate, put a hard gate at the end of your chain.   The gate on the input will absolutely kill your tone.  

Noted. I will try that approach thank you 

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Sounds good! I'm a fan of the Hard Gate set before the amp block, myself

Thank you much appreciated.

where you place the gate is rather significant change between in front of the amp and in the rear of the chain.

Depending on where it's placed it takes some considerable tweaking from one block to the other.

At first go at it.. I think I prefer the sound at the end as StruckingFuggle recommended. 

I'm going to continue to experiment. 

:)

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It's interesting that you reference good metal tone as being Testament, Metallica, Megadeth and Slayer, but then are trying to achieve it with. Rectifier....which none of those bands use.

 

In any case, I think your best bet is to go simple. The Mark IV model is good for Metallica. Testament has used 5150 IIIs for quite awhile. Slayer and Megadeth are Marshall, so 2204 Mod.

 

Start with the factory patches for any of those amps. Change the cabs to Bogner or Mesa V30, then mix in the new Mark 1x12. Add 808 or OCD in front set to clean boost. That should do it.

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It's interesting that you reference good metal tone as being Testament, Metallica, Megadeth and Slayer, but then are trying to achieve it with. Rectifier....which none of those bands use.

 

In any case, I think your best bet is to go simple. The Mark IV model is good for Metallica. Testament has used 5150 IIIs for quite awhile. Slayer and Megadeth are Marshall, so 2204 Mod.

 

Start with the factory patches for any of those amps. Change the cabs to Bogner or Mesa V30, then mix in the new Mark 1x12. Add 808 or OCD in front set to clean boost. That should do it.

You are probably `105% correct. 

I guess the reason I choose the rectifier is because it is what I own.. and have toured and played with for around 10 years. 

I am confident I can get just about any tone I want out of my amp/rig. 

Never a problem matching anything I want to get really... I'm not a big fx guy I like the raw sound except for solos. 

Honestly I have never even considered changing it up.

I mentioned those bands just as a starting point reference.. I would be happy just to get " my tone" really. 

I'm not all about sounding like someone else. I just want this to sound the best it can if shooting for those types of gain I guess if that makes sense.

To make myself more clear I am wondering what steps one needs to take to achieve the best high gain tone no matter what amp and what settings for recording, and live performance, 

And metallica is using fractal now and testament is using kemper... where does that leave me? lol 

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 Change the cabs to Bogner or Mesa V30, then mix in the new Mark 1x12. 

I have just started messing around with some different combinations.. downloaded some OH IR's.. I'm not sure I like them any better. I like that I can control the distance with the stock IR's.. it adds depth to the tone. I've been experimenting a lot with blending cabs and IR's.. fun stuff 

This pedal is definitely entertaining

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A couple of tricks I use on all my presets: use the amp bass control to cut the low end out if you want a tight tone - you can always add low end with an eq block after the amp. Add a distortion block like the stupor with zero gain/overdrive and tone/level set at noon+ at the beginning of your path to get more "attack" or "pick attack".

I do use gate on the input block - it does affect my sound but not in a negative way. And compression can also be added to taste. I'm into testament, slayer, exodus etc. and I've managed to create some tight killer metal tones using the above with both cali lead amp and the archon lead amp. For this I use various IR's from Rosen Digital, Cabir.eu and Ownhammer. Sometimes i also use 3SA's but not so much.

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It's interesting that you reference good metal tone as being Testament, Metallica, Megadeth and Slayer, but then are trying to achieve it with. Rectifier....which none of those bands use.

 

In any case, I think your best bet is to go simple. The Mark IV model is good for Metallica. Testament has used 5150 IIIs for quite awhile. Slayer and Megadeth are Marshall, so 2204 Mod.

 

Start with the factory patches for any of those amps. Change the cabs to Bogner or Mesa V30, then mix in the new Mark 1x12. Add 808 or OCD in front set to clean boost. That should do it.

 

  I hated the Mark IV patch at first for high gain stuff - it took a lot of tweaking.   But I've dialed it in pretty good.   I have a Mesa JP-2C that I love, and use for rehearsal and live settings - but I've been looking to get close with the Helix for home recording and practice to save wear and tear on my tubes.   It's not quite the same, but I've worked at it a while and finally got a great sounding Mark IV patch.  

 

 I'm not a big fx guy I like the raw sound except for solos. 

Honestly I have never even considered changing it up.

 

 

I'm similar - I do use a slight amount of delay on my rhythms - more to round out the sound then for sustain you need for leads - and it works well.   One thing with Helix - you sometimes have to think outside the box.   Like I mentioned above - the Mark IV patch I've been working on took a while to get there and I've had to do things that I wouldn't normally do with a traditional amp signal chain.   Like adding some eq in the effects loop, even with the Mark IV modeled 5 band EQ.   I also use 2 very different IR's in a dual cab setup, both from Ownhammer - but one is a Mesa 4X12 rectifier, and another is an Orange 4X12 - I played with the different mics and placements quite a bit to arrive where I am.   Like I said, not stuff I would do in a conventional analog world, but the great thing about helix is you can really experiment with just the cost of the unit and a few IR's.   In the real world, this type of tweaking would cost many thousands.

 

There is a great patch on CustomTone called Metallica (EMG).  I wasn't too thrilled when I first downloaded it (probably because the user who made it is using different output speakers and guitars) , but sounded closer to what I wanted then a bunch of other patches.   It gave me some great ideas for my own patch - and fiddling with it got me some good results.

 

Another thing, find a decent base tone with a patch, then save that patch, then again to another spot and you can experiment without destroying the base patch... rinse... repeat...   It won't take you long to get where you want to go.

 

Finally - the old adage is true - you dial in tone with your ears, not eyes.   With Helix, it really goes further in trying things you normally wouldn't then listening to the results.   It seems limitless, and it is, but it doesn't have to be a lesson in agony.   I've now got live patches for my traditional tube amp in 4CM, as well as patches for about 5 different genre's of music, heavy metal included.

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I have always struggled with the Rec amp in Helix. I tried to dial it in again last night with a bunch of different IRs, for no more reason than my own enjoyment. I keep coming to the conclusion that the Mark IV gets me much closer to the Rec sound I hear inside my head.

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I have always struggled with the Rec amp in Helix. I tried to dial it in again last night with a bunch of different IRs, for no more reason than my own enjoyment. I keep coming to the conclusion that the Mark IV gets me much closer to the Rec sound I hear inside my head.

I am starting to agree with you there.. for some reason the rectifier just sounds HD500x'ish to me. {I have one I can say that}

But really.. there is this sizzle I just can't get out of it without crushing my tone. 

I have recently started messing around with the MarkIV and have some pretty good results. 

I am working on a dual MKIV-Rectifier so we'll see how that  goes. 

 

Thanks to everyone for the input~~~! 

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