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Output and Send level issue

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Hi guys !


I finally got my Helix and found some time to integrate it in my setup. For the next gigs, I plan to use it with my valve amp and keep using a few drive pedals to keep my base sound. I will keep it simple with my Helix in front of my amp, and my drive pedals in the Helix loops.


Here is my problem. I spent a few hours trying to match the input, send/return and output volumes, to ensure the same signal level drives my amp and pedals. And with the settings that seemed suitable for my setup, the output is 4.1db lower that the input. 


To measure the levels precisely, I recorded a short guitar clip in my Jamman looper, replayed it and recorded it with a DAW :

- directly: Jamman -> Audio Interface (UR44) -> DAW

- through Helix : Jamman -> Helix Guitar In -> Helix 1/4" Out / Send 1 -> Audio Interface -> DAW


I used an empty preset and the following settings :

- Guitar In Pad: Off

- 1/4" output: Instrument

- Send/Return1: Instrument

- No Global EQ

- Input: Auto Hi-Z

- Output: Multi, Level=0db

- Volume knob : XLR



If I add a 4.1 db boost (either with a gain block or the send block setting or the preset output setting), the input and output level match.


I tried playing with the global settings. But if I set the output to Line, it is 8db too loud.


Any idea on this ? I may have missed one setting...


A gain block at the beginning of all the presets would solve the problem, but I'd rather avoid it. I will need one to match my guitar volumes anyway, but if I set it to 4.1 db for my loudest guitar, there is not much gain left for the quieter.


Thanks for the help :)



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Your saying the main 1/4 out is also 4.1 lower?  Maybe due to L/R split?


Im thinking a Send block is also splitting the signal between "Send" and "Dry Thru", so you're getting 1/2 of the signal.  Should be a 3db loss but for others reasons? 4.1 sounds reasonable. 


Edit:  Personally, I would adjust it at the Send Block or 1/4 output, and not use an actual gain block.  

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Hi Fido.


Thanks for sharing your ideas on my issue :)


I also made a test without the send block after updating to firmware 2.21 with the same results. At least I think I did.... 

But I will have to test again, because you are probably right about the signal split at the Send block level. I thought they were serial loops (like in the loop switcher I currently use).

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Hey guys.


Just to let you know that my previous results were totally incorrect :) My settings were certainly wrong and my protocol too bad to get consistent results. So I started from scratch, and here is what I found.


- Input is boosted by 0.2db.

- Sends are OK

- Returns are boosted by 0.4 db.

- The 1/4" output is OK.


Mostly negligible... which is good news :)


With a -0.2db gain block right after the input, and setting all 4 returns to -0.4db, I get exactly the expected output volume.

Setting the Return level costs nothing, but not sure the 0.2db boost is worth a block...



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