An open apology (PeterHamm) and call to arms

[WithALoudNoise]

First and foremost, I would like to issue a heartfelt apology to Peter Hamm.  In an earlier thread I had asked for input on creating an acoustic patch utilizing an LR Baggs Paracoustic DI routed to the Helix.  Peter responded with advice on using acoustic IR's which I vehemently dismissed in a rather abrupt and choleric reply.  You don't need to seek out the post, I think it is best left behind.  My hope is that Peter will accept my apology in the sincerity with which it is offered.

 

I actually found Peters' Schmaltz patch to be a great EQ starting point for building an acoustic sound, however I did delete the IR's and some of the 'Schmaltz'.  What I found is that my Taylor 412CE going straight into the Helix got me the sound closest to what I was seeking.  I have tried several IR's including some purchased from 3Sigma and I could not get them to sound good.  I think the reason is that the Taylor's onboard electronics already have a great sound built in and the IR's just tended to muddy it up.

 

Now to my call to arms... I recently bit the proverbial bullet and purchased a JTV69.  Coupled with the Helix, this thing is amazing.  I have had the single coils at the neck and bridge position swapped out with a couple single coil sized humbuckers. Having a USA start already, I really was looking for something different.  I must say I am very pleased, if not overwhelmed, with the variety of sounds I can get from this combination.

 

I am less than impressed with the acoustic tone, which brings me to my final point.  Any advice on how to get the Variax to sound big and acousticy would be very much appreciated.  This might need IR's and I will be working through Jim Amsdens' great blog over the next couple of days but if anyone out there has had success with a Variax/Helix acoustic sound and has a patch they could provide as a starting point I would really appreciate it!

And Peter, my sincere apologies and thanks.  I appreciate your advice and take it in the spirit with which it was given. 

 

In Him,

 

Michael

WithALoudNoise.com (a work in progress)

Carpentnerd.com (Got to make a living... somehow)

[cruisinon2]

You didn't mention how you're amplifying Helix...but whether or not you get convincing acoustic tones from a Variax is almost entirely dependent on how you're listening. Without some sort of FRFR speaker solution, you can kiss decent acoustic sounds (and your sanity) goodbye. A guitar amp/cabinet will never get you there...it's over before it starts.

 

Beyond that, less is usually more for acoustic Variax tones... no amp model, judiciously applied EQ, and a little reverb, and you should be able to fool most people into thinking it's a real acoustic.

[taylorbeats]

All of the above, softer picking (light or extra light picks) or fingers rather than a pick, light strums, 10's or 11's for string gauge.

[PeterHamm]

Any advice on how to get the Variax to sound big and acousticy would be very much appreciated.  This might need IR's and I will be working through Jim Amsdens' great blog over the next couple of days but if anyone out there has had success with a Variax/Helix acoustic sound and has a patch they could provide as a starting point I would really appreciate it!

 

 

First off: no apology necessary. It's the internet. Speak your mind. I have thick skin. But thanks.

 

I'm not surprised that your Taylor sounds great with no IR, actually. They have amazing electronics.

 

 

 

Now... a little something NOT intuitive about Variax that might make all the difference. If you know this, my apologies. If not... you're welcome.

 

The tone control on the amp models is NOT a tone control, it's a mic placement thing and "10" almost always sounds the worst.

 

Honestly, you might be surprised that this is all you need to do. NO IR with Variax, it already does some modeling built-in.

 

Also, the tube mic pre model can warm things up a bit.

 

Sorry, I don't have a Variax anymore, so I've never made any patches for it.

 

let us know how it goes.

[WithALoudNoise]

Thanks Peter and all else who replied.  At home I have an L2t, L2m solution but for church I go straight to board via XLR.  I use in-ear monitors connected directly to the Helix.  Will try the tone knob (I had heard that on TheHelixChannel).  I think the key is the parametric EQ before and after the Tube Preamp but there is so much to tweak there it gives me a headache just thinking about it.

[WithALoudNoise]

First off: no apology necessary. It's the internet. Speak your mind. I have thick skin. But thanks.

 

I'm not surprised that your Taylor sounds great with no IR, actually. They have amazing electronics.

 

 

 

Now... a little something NOT intuitive about Variax that might make all the difference. If you know this, my apologies. If not... you're welcome.

 

The tone control on the amp models is NOT a tone control, it's a mic placement thing and "10" almost always sounds the worst.

 

Honestly, you might be surprised that this is all you need to do. NO IR with Variax, it already does some modeling built-in.

 

Also, the tube mic pre model can warm things up a bit.

 

Sorry, I don't have a Variax anymore, so I've never made any patches for it.

 

let us know how it goes.

We will just chalk it up to low blood sugar  :blink:

[silverhead]

In some acoustic presets I place an acoustic IR as the first block in the chain, and set the Variax Tone knob to minimize its effect. In this setup the IR provides the mic'd acoustic signal from the soundhole of the guitar - simulating a pure acoustic sound using no onboard electronics on the guitar. Different IRs will give you different mics and positions relative to the soundhole and neck.

 

With the IR first in the chain the rest of the preset is configured to do what one would normally do (whatever that is! 😉) with a mic'd acoustic input signal. As others have stated I use the LA Studio preamp, no guitar amp, then EQ, chorus, delay and reverb to taste.

 

Edit: And yes, avoid vigorous strumming or picking. A light touch is best.

[brue58ski]

I find that the JTV acoustic models sound a little too metallic and/or thin. I actually liked the old Variax's acoustic models better and with a mic preamp in the old Pod X3's, sounded great. Of course right when I came up with that patch the JTV series started and I had to get one. Sigh. Haven't came up with an acoustic sound I love yet.

[PeterHamm]

I find that the JTV acoustic models sound a little too metallic and/or thin. I actually liked the old Variax's acoustic models better and with a mic preamp in the old Pod X3's, sounded great. Of course right when I came up with that patch the JTV series started and I had to get one. Sigh. Haven't came up with an acoustic sound I love yet.

 

 

Have you backed off the tone control on Variax? I finally learned that was everything.

[brue58ski]

Have you backed off the tone control on Variax? I finally learned that was everything.

 

Yeah. I know it's mostly a matter of opinion. Many people like the acoustics on the JTV's. Backing off the tone control helps but I haven't found the trick (EQ, mic preamp, IR, etc.) that gets rid of the metallic zing that I hear. I half suspect that a lot of the reason for the zing is the piezo's in the JTV's are set up to be much more sensitive than the ones on the old Variax's. That's why playing with a light touch makes such a difference with the JTV acoustics I think.

[HonestOpinion]

Have you backed off the tone control on Variax? I finally learned that was everything.

 

Thanks for the tip! Definitely taking this into account.

[Rocco_Crocco]

This Helix patch has gotten me the best acoustic sound from my Variax, IMHO.

 

http://line6.com/customtone/tone/1283667/

[brue58ski]

This Helix patch has gotten me the best acoustic sound from my Variax, IMHO.

 

http://line6.com/customtone/tone/1283667/

 

A JTV Variax? Or an old Variax? The patch doesn't say.

[Rocco_Crocco]

A JTV Variax? Or an old Variax? The patch doesn't say.

JTV. If you use a vdi cable the Helix will automatically select the parameters of the acoustic in the JTV.

[FlyingsCool]

I believe the tone control controls the distance of the mic from the guitar.  The signal from the Variax is the sound of the Acoustic as mic'd, It's not modeling the piezo signal.  It doesn't need an IR, it's modeling is the IR.

 

Whereas if you are hooking up a real acoustic, you are getting the piezo signal into the Helix, which could then really use a piezo->mic'd acoustic IR like the L2t has built in.  Which is why I like to hook my acoustic up to the L2t directly, bypassing the helix, since the L2t has acoustic modeling IR for a piezo signal built into channel 1.

 

Or you could hook a mic up to get the acoustic signal into the Helix... or, even better, put both the mic signal and piezo signal in and act on it accordingly.... 

 

(As a side note - One thing I like to do when recording acoustic is include both a mic'd signal and piezo signal in the recording... and I adjust the piezo signal into the mix enough to give the recording some life, but no so loud you can tell it's necessarily there.... Not that I'm any kind of pro or anything...)

[amsdenj]

The tone control on the Variax acoustic models is the position of the mic along the neck - closer to or further from the sound hole.

 

I have a Variax 300, Variax 700 Acoustic, Variax Standard and JVT-69S. There are differences in the models. The Variax 700 Acoustic is quite good - not something that you would want to use as acoustic solo or solo singer/songwriter, but OK for an acoustic band with a few other instruments. The fact that it has acoustic guitar strings and setup probably helps a lot. I use it exclusively in my acoustic band No Worries - along with Helix, which also has patches for mandolin and some electric guitar.

 

The Variax 300 acoustic models to may ear are a bit more natural sounding than those in the Variax Standard or JVT HD acoustic models. That's likely a matter of taste and others might disagree.

 

I find a bit of careful EQ can do wonders on the Standard/JVT models. If you sweep around with a parametric EQ, you'll likely find a bit of over emphasis in the 800Hz to 1KHz range. A gentle cut there with low Q can sweeten the tone a bit.

 

Bottom line I would never record acoustic tones with any Variax, and I'd probably never do an acoustic solo gig with the Variax 700 Acoustic either, but I've seen videos of James Taylor doing it! But for club gigging, you can't beat a Variax, any Variax. To me that's that the tool is for, and I don't try to do everything with it. I have a Goodall acoustic that fills in the gap in other situations.

[shanecgriffo]

i find my old variax 500 with a little compression and eq to taste, with the tone knob rolled right back, on the martin setting sounds quite lovely through some decent big speakers.. yes the light touch is better definitely, start to hit it hard and it's bye bye nice sound.

[HonestOpinion]

By working with the EQ, both the 10-band and the parametric, particularly using the parametric sweep method,  I have been able to dial out a lot of the piezo sound and nasal qualities to get a fairly pleasing sound with the Variax acoustic models. Proper reverb settings and even dual reverb blocks can help to provide some of the complexity of sound bouncing around in an acoustic body. I pretty much only use the Variax acoustic models for songs that require a mid-tune switch from electric to acoustic or for the occasional tune that only requires acoustic finger-picking and is suited to the Variax's acoustic sound. I carry an acoustic guitar in addition to my electrics for anything that requires acoustic strumming. I also consider the Variax my emergency acoustic backup in the event that I have a problem with my acoustic guitar (don't want to carry two acoustics in addition to my electrics). Does anyone have some good tips for improving the sound of strumming using the acoustic models on the Variax(other than to play lightly)?

[njglover]

I have a JTV89 and I use the Gibson model with the tone knob rolled back just a bit. From there, I go into a studio preamp model (with some EQ adjustments) and a touch of reverb. I wouldn't record with it, but for live it is absolutely fantastic. Will never compare to my actual Gibson Hummingbird, but it still captures the general tone and "feel" of it. Love it.

 

Also I still just play it with a pick. I don't strum super hard, but also not super lightly, so I'm not sure why everyone else is saying you need to. Sounds great to me.

[arislaf]

Thanks Peter and all else who replied.  At home I have an L2t, L2m solution but for church I go straight to board via XLR.  I use in-ear monitors connected directly to the Helix.  Will try the tone knob (I had heard that on TheHelixChannel).  I think the key is the parametric EQ before and after the Tube Preamp but there is so much to tweak there it gives me a headache just thinking about it.

Mate, sent me your email, i will sent you my acoustic setlist. Some need IRs, but with variax, better don't use the IRs at all.

[chuskey]

Here's a patch I made that I use with the JTV69:  http://line6.com/customtone/tone/1967148/

 

Of course you'll probably want to adjust the EQ to taste and I use an external looper, so you can take out the blocks in path 2B that I use for that.  

 

As others have mentioned how hard you attack the strings can affect the acoustic sounds quite a bit on the JTV.  I tend to be heavy handed with my right hand so I have to remind myself to lighten up when using the acoustic models :)

 

If you want to hear what it sounds like: