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Send block bypass status via MIDI

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Hi guys.

 

I'm trying to program a FCB1010 (with Eurekaprom 3.2) to be a mirror of the floorboard, so I basically mapped all 10 pedals to work as the 10 footswitch on the Helix. This is working fine, except I can't find a way to send back a #CC to the FCB1010 to reflect the actual status of the pedals on the Helix.

 

Do you guys know if Helix is sending any information, through MIDI output, about block bypass status (block ON/OFF)?

 

Kemper does this, as Fractal and many other units, but I can't find any info about the Helix.

 

If you are asking why I'm doing that is because I need the Helix on a stand as I need to edit on the fly so the mirror on the floor FCB1010, would work perfect for me.

 

Thanks in advance. :)

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Well, . . . ..  I would guess that there are messages being sent back and forth.  I base this on the fact that the "Helix Editor" is a USB connected devise and has to be able to receive "Status" updates.  Now, that does not mean that the messages are pure MIDI CC messages and could very well be  "System Exclusive" type messages ( i.e. NOT CC# messages) or  hard coded MM API calls in C, C# or C++.  Once Native is out we should be able to "intercept" the transmissions back and forth and decode the messages even if they are SysEx.

 

A program like MIDIOX or even the "Edit MIDI Messages" view in many DAWS may be able to tell you what is being sent.  I'll see what I can find in a day or two.  Perhaps a Line6 support agent can lead us on a better path.  You will need to be sure and have the MIDI Thru parameter set on the Helix in any case.

 

Good Luck,   Bo

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Hi guys.

 

I'm trying to program a FCB1010 (with Eurekaprom 3.2) to be a mirror of the floorboard, so I basically mapped all 10 pedals to work as the 10 footswitch on the Helix. This is working fine, except I can't find a way to send back a #CC to the FCB1010 to reflect the actual status of the pedals on the Helix.

 

Do you guys know if Helix is sending any information, through MIDI output, about block bypass status (block ON/OFF)?

 

Kemper does this, as Fractal and many other units, but I can't find any info about the Helix.

 

If you are asking why I'm doing that is because I need the Helix on a stand as I need to edit on the fly so the mirror on the floor FCB1010, would work perfect for me.

 

Thanks in advance. :)

Please keep post if you get this sorted out.  I have been considering doing this myself.   

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Hi guys.

 

I'm trying to program a FCB1010 (with Eurekaprom 3.2) to be a mirror of the floorboard, so I basically mapped all 10 pedals to work as the 10 footswitch on the Helix. This is working fine, except I can't find a way to send back a #CC to the FCB1010 to reflect the actual status of the pedals on the Helix.

 

Do you guys know if Helix is sending any information, through MIDI output, about block bypass status (block ON/OFF)?

 

Kemper does this, as Fractal and many other units, but I can't find any info about the Helix.

 

If you are asking why I'm doing that is because I need the Helix on a stand as I need to edit on the fly so the mirror on the floor FCB1010, would work perfect for me.

 

Thanks in advance. :)

 

The Helix doesn't mirror CC messages like that. The one thing is that the MIDI map for blocks is totally fluid and can change for each preset. There is no default MIDI map, actually. It's dependent on you assigning MIDI CCs to them. Now if you're talking about the MIDI CCs associated with the footswitches themselves, yes, those are set, but, like I said earlier, they don't mirror CC messages back. I've never looked into how the FCB1010 works, but can it send out MIDI CC toggle commands? That seems like what you would want to use if you're controlling the Helix's footswitches.

 

Honestly, it seems to me that your life would be much easier with the Rack and Control setup. It would essentially do all this stuff for you.

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FCB1010 does what it's programmed in the Eprom.  The Eprom I'm using now (Eurekaprom 3.2) can mimic perfectly the Helix floorboard and it's already working, so I can toggle on/off all the Helix footswitch. I can tap tempo, call the tuner, change bank/preset, turn on/off the blocks etc... but I can't get the starting point block status when rolling between presets, and for what I see in the MIDI signal, seems nothing is sent apart the bank/preset information.

 

My dreamrig would be to get the actual block status, from Helix back to the FCB1010, so I don't have to start with all blocks OFF to make the two units work in sync and this way what I'd press with hands on the helix would be mirrored on the FCB1010, and viceversa. This is totally working, bidirectional, with Kemper, Fractal, Avid etc... but seems like Line6 does not allow that.

 

Helix rack, you still have to go down with your body to touch the footswitch and recall a block you want to edit on the fly, and the joystick/rotary is not really good to make these kind of changes because it's slow and erratic (you can easily spin the block). I mean, live changes on the fly, not in studio/house editing. :)

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So one thing that comes to mind is that you would never get this functionality from one cable from the FCB midi out to the helix midi in. You would need an additional cable going from helix midi out to the FCB midi in (assuming it has one). Even with these connections in place, I'm not sure it this would work the way you want it. I know this would be great if it did, as I use an external midi controller with the floor unit for another guitar player in my band. I will have to try this out in the future to see if I can make it work

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So one thing that comes to mind is that you would never get this functionality from one cable from the FCB midi out to the helix midi in. You would need an additional cable going from helix midi out to the FCB midi in (assuming it has one). Even with these connections in place, I'm not sure it this would work the way you want it. I know this would be great if it did, as I use an external midi controller with the floor unit for another guitar player in my band. I will have to try this out in the future to see if I can make it work

 

Sure, of course we are talking about bidirection MIDI IN/OUT. :)

As I said, it works with Kemper and Fractal, and also with many other applications. Line6 does not allow that, for some reason, or at least looks like that.

 

You can see an example in this video

 

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This way of working seems crazy, though. Editing on the fly during live performance on ANY unit is going to lead to something really really bad eventually. Accidentally hit the wrong button and you're kinda screwed.

 

It seems that figuring out everything that might change during a performance and getting patches that can do that is going to work better.

 

In any case, let us know how it goes. I think Rack/Control is the way to go here.

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Sorry but looks like you lack a bit of knowledge in avantgard jazz, or ambient music in general, where the live editing is part of the performance. Just watch some video of artists like Frisell with his DL4 to understand what Im talking about. ;)

 

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Sorry but looks like you lack a bit of knowledge in avantgard jazz, or ambient music in general, where the live editing is part of the performance. Just watch some video of artists like Frisell with his DL4 to understand what Im talking about. ;)

 

 

 

No, I understand that. Just didn't know that's what you played. But imho, you want (need?) knobs in hand more than something like Helix gives you. In other words, the older tech would probably work better for that imho.

 

And I've seen Bill play with all his stuff on the floor anyhow, as he does in that video.

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Hi guys.

 

I'm trying to program a FCB1010 (with Eurekaprom 3.2) to be a mirror of the floorboard, so I basically mapped all 10 pedals to work as the 10 footswitch on the Helix. This is working fine, except I can't find a way to send back a #CC to the FCB1010 to reflect the actual status of the pedals on the Helix.

 

Do you guys know if Helix is sending any information, through MIDI output, about block bypass status (block ON/OFF)?

 

Kemper does this, as Fractal and many other units, but I can't find any info about the Helix.

 

If you are asking why I'm doing that is because I need the Helix on a stand as I need to edit on the fly so the mirror on the floor FCB1010, would work perfect for me.

 

Thanks in advance. :)

,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.

 

 

 

With a little more research. . . . . . Check this site out . ..     http://www.eurekasound.com/eurekaprom/io     . . . .This shows HOW to trigger the FCB's LEDs with the Eurekasound's 

EPROM.

 

Now,  what this tells me is that you have 10 pedals that can be programmed to ON or OFF.  This is done with CC# 106 + a value of  21 to turn a LED on and CC#107 + value of 22 to turn the LED per pedal OFF.

 

They only way to have the HELIX do this is to create a Control Center Instant CC# for each pedal on every Patch that you wanted this functionality.  That should set it initially.

 

After that, Sending CC104 + value 1-2-3-4-5 .... 0 will turn pedals off from the FCB ; or CC105 + value 1-2-3-4 . . .0 will turn on pedals from the FCB.

 

This will get ugly very quickly and IMHO not something you want to do.  I think Peter Hamm has the best idea in using the  Rack Controler.  Will it connect to the Floor Helix? Don't know!

 

Good luck,  Bo

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah I tried that above, as one of the first attempts, but did not work.

 

As for Peter suggestion to go with the Rack+Controller, again, would be even worse because you have two distant units instead just one and that is like dancing between guitar, floor controller and helix rack. That is the exact opposite than what I'm used to.

 

Seems like the only way is to save the "live" presets with all blocks OFF (apart the core amp/IRs/preamp) and then using the FCB1010 to select the snapshots and/or the single blocks, while using the touch on the Helix board to quickly recall a block and make the edit on the fly.

 

In the past (with different DSPs) I was using my BCR2000 to assign the various effect parameters, that I wanted to change on the fly, to all the various rotaries, and that was working great....but I can't manage to make it working with the Helix for the exact same reasons.

 

The Helix is a dream machine, but the MIDI support is really basic, unfortunately. 

 

Thanks anyway! :)

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 . . . . . .  and now you know the rest of the story! . .. . 

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New info from DI today on this topic.

May not be the Total solution but more info to digest. 

 

 

Posted Today,6/1/2017  09:05 AM

From:  Digial_Igloo

trossitrumpet, on 02 Jun 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

 

I have been looking into a FCB1010 as well for the same function. I currently have the guitarist of the band on his own path with the Helix at his feet, while I am a little bit away running my trumpet mic through effects on the Helix on the second path as well. I'd like to be able to switch my different effects remotely without having to walk all the way over to do so.

 

 

 

I have read that there are mod chips for the FCB1010 to allow for something called "stompbox mode". Maybe this is a solution? Has anyone had any experience with this? Or maybe with the new MIDI features of the latest firmware update can we now bypass blocks through MIDI?

 

 

Yes. Since my post above, we've added per-block bypass via MIDI:

 

Press MENU and then Knob 1 (Bypass Assign).

Turn Knob 4 (MIDI In) to choose the desired CC. Values of 0-63 turn the block off and values of 64-127 turn the block on.

In lieu of step 2, you can also Learn incoming MIDI CCs. Just press Knob 6 (Learn) and send Helix the desired MIDI CC. Note that some CCs are reserved for global functions and cannot be selected or learned.

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