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jamier

Tap Feature (delay) - 'Actual' tap function? (ie. not tied to tempo or 'note')

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Hi there,

 

I'm fairly new to the Helix LT - coming from a Boss background. I'm wondering if there is a way to control the delay repeats using the Tap control without it necessarily being tied to a specific note subdivision.

Here's why I ask: I go back and forth between different delay-repeat styles frequently. I want to be able to tap the actual repeats to the rhythm of the tune. For the most part I can just use the 1/4 note setting and it's fine. However, if I want to tap in a 'slapback' by pressing the switch quickly, it limits me to 240bpm and doesn't slap back quick enough. Make sense?

So, basically, I just want to be able to tap 'freely' without letting the unit determine the note value or tempo.

Please say this is possible and that I'm just missing something....

 

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

Thanks,

Jamie

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The controls need to know the note division because that's how delays work. 1/4 note divisions give you a repeat for every time you tap the switch. 

 

If you are trying to tap a "slapback" type delay in, you will need to be able to tap the switch at about 100ms repeat time, or 10 taps per second if it is set to 1/4 note divisions. If you absolutely need to be able to tap in a slapback, you may have to use 1/8 (5 taps/second) or 1/16th divisions (2.5 taps/second) for a 100ms repeat.

 

My suggestion for a slapback delay is that you create a delay block with the time interval set appropriately, then switch that delay on/off when needed. For everything else, you can just tap using the 1/4 not divisions. If you don't have space in your signal chain for another delay block, then you will have to set your note divisions appropriately. 

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Thanks. I understand everything you are saying. FYI - I just posted the following at Ideascale. Perhaps it better explains what I'm looking to do. Also, for the record, this feature (the ability to tap as quickly as I can - perhaps not 100ms but fast all the same...) exists in all of my other equipment. Here's what I posted:

 

Here's my issue - I use the tap feature a lot and often change between 1/4 notes, dotted syncopations and a slap. With other pieces of equipment, I'm able to simply set the delay feature at a 1/4 note and tap however I want to determine the nature of the repeats. If I tap 'in time' it's a quarter note delay, if I tap every beat and a half it's syncopated, and if I tap very quickly it gives me a slapback. For me the issue lies with the fact that the Helix LT tops out at 240bpm - therefore, if I try to tap in a slapback it doesn't allow it. With every other delay unit I own, there is no maximum tempo (at least not that I've discovered), therefore I can govern the speed of the repeats as I choose. I know there are workarounds with the Helix but I feel this is an easy feature to address without affecting anyone negatively. Thanks!

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Not at my Helix, and I don't remember for sure if I've ever tried it, but I think tap tempo still works if delay time is set to time rather than note subdivisions.

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Not at my Helix, and I don't remember for sure if I've ever tried it, but I think tap tempo still works if delay time is set to time rather than note subdivisions.

I believe you are correct. I think the new tapped time will show in the parameter display. 

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Hmmm...I've tried that and don't believe it works. I could be doing something wrong, of course. As far as I can tell, the tap tempo function only works when the delay is set to a note value. If anyone can show me what I'm doing wrong, please chime in. Perhaps there's a setting buried deep within whereby the Tap overrides the Time parameter? That would fix it. Would love some help with this. Thanks all.

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Not at my Helix, and I don't remember for sure if I've ever tried it, but I think tap tempo still works if delay time is set to time rather than note subdivisions.

Tap only affects parameters that are set to note values, no exceptions.

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Hmmm...I've tried that and don't believe it works. I could be doing something wrong, of course. As far as I can tell, the tap tempo function only works when the delay is set to a note value. If anyone can show me what I'm doing wrong, please chime in. Perhaps there's a setting buried deep within whereby the Tap overrides the Time parameter? That would fix it. Would love some help with this. Thanks all.

In my experience (I'm not at my Helix at the moment to test) you are correct. The tap tempo function only works when the delay is set to a note value. When set to a bpm value the tempo does not change when you tap on the switch. However, the blinking light on the tap tempo switch DOES change in response to your tapping, which can lead to the mistaken impression that the underlying tempo actually changes as well. It does not.

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Could this not be an option to turn on or off? Seems odd that you HAVE to remember to change to a note value to use tap

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I agree - either an option to turn on/off or just have the Tap work regardless of whether the delay is set to BPM (or subdivisions thereof) or time. This seems painfully obvious to me...

I'm liking the Helix but I feel like this is a little bug that could be fixed quite easily. Every other delay unit or multi-effect that I own allows this.

Anyone listening???

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To me it is nice to not have my delays effected when set to a time value just in case I accidentally hit the tap switch with my foot. Some of my delays I have a set time value, then others I have set to note values so I can program the tempo manually per snapshot if necessary. 

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Anyone listening???

Check out https://line6.ideascale.com/

end users can post and vote on ideas for products, Line 6 product managers do check out ideascale so it is the best place to get your voice heard

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I agree - either an option to turn on/off or just have the Tap work regardless of whether the delay is set to BPM (or subdivisions thereof) or time. This seems painfully obvious to me...

I'm liking the Helix but I feel like this is a little bug that could be fixed quite easily. Every other delay unit or multi-effect that I own allows this.

Anyone listening???

 

Well, it's not a bug... It's how the delays have worked on Line 6 products for quite a while now. Line 6 is hardly alone in doing it this way, though. I was playing with the new Empress Echosystem delay, for instance, and it behaves the same way (except it's way more confusing).

 

It really just sounds like you would be happy if you were able to tap in a tempo faster than 240BPM. It seems like that would be an easier request to fulfill rather than changing the whole paradigm for how time-based parameters and tap tempo works.

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Yes, that would be great - - allowing a tempo of more than 240bpm would give me the complete freedom to control the delay variations that I like to use for certain songs - going from 1/4 note to syncopated to slapback etc. etc.

That solution would work great - increase the allowable BPM setting to 480 or something like that.

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Have you tried using snapshots to change your delay settings? I use snapshots for this all the time and it works great. 

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I realize there are numerous workarounds, including snapshots, additional effect blocks etc. - they'd all work to a certain degree and may truly work for many players. I believe there's a fairly straight-forward solution to my challenge: a tweak of the software to allow for a higher (or unlimited) BPM setting rather than being 'capped' at 240BPM. Another solution may be to have an additional setting within the delays (or anything else that responds to tap) - perhaps there could also be a 'Freetap' choice. So, you could set your delay either at a fixed setting (measured in milliseconds), or using BPM (measured in various note lengths/divisions) or the 'Freetap' setting where the repeats are governed only by the user's taps. 

 

I think there's a way to make everyone happy :-)

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