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POD HD500X+Cab simulator vs Helix


hag01
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I'm thinking whether it is worth to upgrade, as I have a list of equipment I need, so I'm trying to arrange my priority order.

Soundwise, can I get sound as good as Helix sound if I'll add something like Tropedo Cab to the Pod?

 

I know that the is Helix better than the Pod in more aspects than sound, but I'm looking for sound improvement only, and buying a good cab simulator will be much cheaper than the Helix.

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Using a device with a $500 MSRP....

I have everything that I have ever had during my 30+ year career -- AND MORE.

$100,000 worth of gear, replaced by a $500 floorboard. 

 

Because I choose to run direct to the PA instead of using an amp, the one thing I am missing is a Talk Box, and that is because there is no amp/cab involved, which means no ability to power the device. However, they now sell a self-powered Talk Box, which means if I actually needed one, I could buy one and use it with my Pod.

But I gained a Vocoder, which I had on keys, but not for guitar. Talk Box vs Vocoder - I can deal with it.

 

There are two things I am feeling let down on when using the Pod vs my old rig, and they were not improved upon in the Helix.

1. the tuner. While the guitar tuner in the Pod is accurate, in my old rig, I had a much more high end tuner. In fact, I paid $400 for my tuner. So, really, I can't expect a $500 device to include a tuner like that. But, I can still use it, it is just not part of the "one box" replacement. 

2. I had an old Pitch Shift/Delay pedal, that allowed me to do some crazy sound effects. I cannot do it with the Pod. Partially because the way digital works in segments instead of the continual motion of analog. But, like all of the above issues, I could use it in the chain if I really wanted - it just is not built in.

 

 

 

So, I ask you... 

What do you do with your music that makes you think you may need a Helix? 

A touch screen doesn't make it sound any better. Having 7 inputs doesn't make it sound any better if you are a 1 or 2 input user. 

 

 

 

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In fact I want to know if I can get as good results(soundwise) just using pod with torpedo cab, as it is much cheaper than buying helix.

You're asking a question that is entirely subjective. Most modelers can be made to sound good if you're willing to put the time in to tweak them to suit your needs...but asking anyone to guess if you'd prefer one device (or combination of devices) over another is a waste of time. No one can answer that question but you.

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There is no doubt the HX is better sounding then the HDs. 

Ask any HX user if they would go back to a HD.

When it comes to your Art there should be no compromise with 

the tools you use to create it.

For me there is a business decision of beans for beans. I am not gigging much at 

all.

If I decided to gig then it would be worth it. (I live in Sydney and the HX is $2500)

Meanwhile, the HDs are adequate.

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Using a device with a $500 MSRP....

I have everything that I have ever had during my 30+ year career -- AND MORE.

$100,000 worth of gear, replaced by a $500 floorboard. 

 

Because I choose to run direct to the PA instead of using an amp, the one thing I am missing is a Talk Box, and that is because there is no amp/cab involved, which means no ability to power the device. However, they now sell a self-powered Talk Box, which means if I actually needed one, I could buy one and use it with my Pod.

But I gained a Vocoder, which I had on keys, but not for guitar. Talk Box vs Vocoder - I can deal with it.

 

There are two things I am feeling let down on when using the Pod vs my old rig, and they were not improved upon in the Helix.

1. the tuner. While the guitar tuner in the Pod is accurate, in my old rig, I had a much more high end tuner. In fact, I paid $400 for my tuner. So, really, I can't expect a $500 device to include a tuner like that. But, I can still use it, it is just not part of the "one box" replacement. 

2. I had an old Pitch Shift/Delay pedal, that allowed me to do some crazy sound effects. I cannot do it with the Pod. Partially because the way digital works in segments instead of the continual motion of analog. But, like all of the above issues, I could use it in the chain if I really wanted - it just is not built in.

 

 

 

So, I ask you... 

What do you do with your music that makes you think you may need a Helix? 

A touch screen doesn't make it sound any better. Having 7 inputs doesn't make it sound any better if you are a 1 or 2 input user. 

 

I just want it to sound more like a real amp.
 
I understand from web research that the weak point of the POD HD is the cabinet simulator, and that is why it sounds unrealistic.
 
I read here that tweaking the Global aqualizer might also be useful useful, maybe even a replacement for an external Cabinet Simulator:
 
What do you say about that?
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I just want it to sound more like a real amp.

 

I understand from web research that the weak point of the POD HD is the cabinet simulator, and that is why it sounds unrealistic.

 

I read here that tweaking the Global aqualizer might also be useful useful, maybe even a replacement for an external Cabinet Simulator:

http://line6.com/support/topic/8559-hd500x-and-logidy-epsi/

 

What do you say about that?

Again, this is all subjective. There are plenty of us who are perfectly happy with the POD's cab sims...but there's no magic bullet for "fixing" any of the unit's perceived shortcomings. The POD will either suit your needs or it won't, and nobody can answer that for you...nor can anyone predict what tweaks you will find useful. This will be true for ANY modeler under the sun.

 

Likewise, there are a million ways to build your patches to achieve the results you're looking for. Global EQ is generally regarded as a fine-tuning mechanism for the room you're playing in, rather than a primary tool for building patches, but if applying certain corrections globally works for you, so be it. There's no "wrong" way to do it.

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Let us look at this in a new light!

What does a real Amp sound like?

I think the interaction of not just your ears but your body in

relation to the Amp that is in the room has been well explained here;

and that what the HDs are, are a mic'd Amp cabinet less a room like one 

would hear in a soundproof from the live room, control room of a Studio.

So you got two directions;

You can go into an Amp like with 4CM and get that interaction you would have

in the room with your Amp.

The other way;

to examine what is lacking to a mic'd version of the sound using a model. For eg. some put a 

delay FX in the Amp block at about 20ms to recreate a room sound.

What else? 

Well what about which Amp? There are 30 plus Amps in the HDs which one?

IF it has been a while, go and play the real Amps you most want to emulate!

You will no doubt feel the HD is even further from the real thing but really you should play the Amp

in a live room and monitor it mic'd in the control room for a proper comparison.

There is more;

\What about feel? If you play a real valve amp you will notice that they are quite difficult to get used to

after using a solid state or amp with solid state distortion included, modeled amps included.

They are very dry and very clean it hurts and requires a touch and methods to get it to sound well.

Adding pedals is a fav to soften the attack and ease of playing required.

When I tweak the basic modeled amp I am going for the feel as much as the sound or more so.

And I tell you you can get the cleaner amp models with care tweaking the DEP etc to feel harder to play.

Then when you add a distortion FX it smooths out like it should.

It is not antipathetic to what sounds good but it is to how it feels. When you tweak often it includes ease of playing

or response but that could be why after all your work you are dissatisfied with your amp result.

My advice is make the amp alone as hard as possible to play with the tonality you have chosen. 

If I was to generalize it would be lowering most of the Amp DEPs a bit and adding a little to the cabinet except for low end roll off for proper recording balance to lessen the bloominess.

I find a slight increase in cab res helps smooth it out and give more of the cabinet IR. 

Each their own and the responses are subtle. It is more about the feel then the sound when in DEP,remember that!

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Don't ever underestimate the Hd500X''s capabilities. It's still one of the best out there. The tones are all in there.

 

I have a Helix but used the both HD500X and the Helix on my last album. Needless to say, the tracks recorded with the POD sounded excellent and stayed on the album.

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