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Line 6, can we please have your perspective concerning Helix tuner issues.

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Dear respected members of Line 6 staff,

 

I did not wish to start a new thread concerning the tuner controversies you are likely aware of, however my invitation for you to pitch in on the most recent tuner thread seems to have escaped your attention. http://line6.com/support/topic/27002-tuner/

 

I sincerely believe the heated debate and unease about the tuner is worthy of your time, and as a faithful customer of yours I too feel the right and need to know what your stance is regarding the situation. Are you aware of the issues many of us are facing, and more importantly, will they be addressed? Please let us put this situation to bed.

 

Dear forum members, please don't turn this into a discussion thread. If the tuner works for you that's wonderful, I am aware there are many others in your situation. I also know there are many in mine. If you would like to further discuss please use the thread mentioned above. Let see keep this space open for Line 6 to let the us know their thoughts. Do feel free to somehow sign, or support this "petition" below.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

B

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Supported- I'm much happier tuning with a clip on snark. I thought I was doing something wrong until I looked online.

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Dear respected members of Line 6 staff,

 

I did not wish to start a new thread concerning the tuner controversies...

But I'm going to anyway...😜

 

Donate at www.granularityinternational.org 😂

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But I'm going to anyway...

 

Donate at www.granularityinternational.org

Be serious now. Take a deep breath, finish reading the whole sentence before replying and you'll see why it makes sense. :p

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Have you submitted a ticket to Line 6 regarding your concerns?

Do you have a video showing your issue?

Do you have a similar video showing use of a tuner which you consider to react better?

In your ticket, did you state the model of guitar and pickups and other relevant information

 

I read through the other thread, and only saw one video posted, and that is from a satisfied user showing response similar to what I'd expect.

 

I don't see how Line 6 can give any response without direct evidence of an actual problem.  I've seen lots of people talk about it from both sides, but nobody has posted a video showing a problem besides fenderod, and there was no problem there.

 

(Full disclosure: I personally have no problem with the tuner, and when I tune my guitar I get a response similar to fenderod.)

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I don't think Line 6 will respond here. 

But they do respond on the TGP forum.  lol

I guess that if you are a Line 6 customer, you have to go to another website to get any info. heh-heh

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There was also a poll on TGP about whether users were satisfied or dis-satisfied with the tuner -> the results were overwhelmingly satisfied (it was almost 70% if I recall). I think they've seen the complaints... and see that it represents the minority and don't see a problem.  Guess we'll see....

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The 70% number must have been a different pole.  The last one I saw on TGP was 57.1% in favor of "Helix's Tuner Stability is Steady Enough for Me!"  Which really says (to me), there's some kind of issue but still usable.  

 

 

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TC Polytune Clip (regardless if in Strobe Mode or Normal Mode) is quick, accurate, steady and stable for all my guitars: Les Pauls, Strat, Sheraton. It is my Go To, until the Helix improves....

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.....

 

Dear forum members, please don't turn this into a discussion thread....

 

Do we really have to do this again?

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Just my experience:




Based on what I'm reading, other users are having different sounding experiences than what I've had. Anyone care to comment?
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TC Polytune Clip (regardless if in Strobe Mode or Normal Mode) is quick, accurate, steady and stable for all my guitars: Les Pauls, Strat, Sheraton. It is my Go To, until the Helix improves....

wholeheartedly agree, expensive but best tuner i have used (other than the polytune pedal). the Helix tuner is not accurate at all and I find it worthless. same with the G70 tuner. just doesnt work for me.

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Just my experience:

 

 

Based on what I'm reading, other users are having sound different than what I've had. Anyone care to comment?

Yep, yours is jumping around like crazy just like mine does. 

And your other tuners are spot on and "non-jumpy"

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Just my experience:

 

 

Based on what I'm reading, other users are having sound different than what I've had. Anyone care to comment?

 

"I think you just have to watch out...to not uh...pay too much attention to the little strip"

 

Nothing more needs to be said.  You pretty much summed up the problem for those of us who are experiencing it.

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Yep, yours is jumping around like crazy just like mine does. 

And your other tuners are spot on and "non-jumpy"

 

"I think you just have to watch out...to not uh...pay too much attention to the little strip"

 

Nothing more needs to be said.  You pretty much summed up the problem for those of us who are experiencing it.

 

It seemed to me that his takeaway point in the video was that the tuner works fine... Funny you both are taking it as the opposite.

 

Anyway, guitar tuning videos are even a more boring genre than unboxing videos...

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...

 

Anyway, guitar tuning videos are even a more boring genre than unboxing videos...

 

Just look at them as 'untuning' videos, not much of a stretch with the Helix. That way they're equally boring as the unboxing ones.  ;)

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It seemed to me that his takeaway point in the video was that the tuner works fine... Funny you both are taking it as the opposite.

 

Anyway, guitar tuning videos are even a more boring genre than unboxing videos...

64344069.jpg

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It seemed to me that his takeaway point in the video was that the tuner works fine... Funny you both are taking it as the opposite.

 

Anyway, guitar tuning videos are even a more boring genre than unboxing videos...

I very much understood his point of view, which is why I felt compelled to reply agreeing with what he was saying, but taking the opposite view.  

 

This whole If you simply ignore parts of the tuner, it's working fine logic is quite maddening.  Apply that logic to a car with 1 unbalanced tire.  Sure there's a shimmy at 45, but you can ignore it as long as it gets you to your destination.  I guarantee if you dropped $800+ on new tires and one was out of balance, you'd turn you car around, return to the shop, and demand it be fixed.

 

Don't misunderstand me.  I'm not demanding that Line 6 fix anything.  Overall, I'm extremely satisfied with Helix and I can live with using another tuner.  I just found the whole video ironic, is all.   

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TC Polytune Clip (regardless if in Strobe Mode or Normal Mode) is quick, accurate, steady and stable for all my guitars: Les Pauls, Strat, Sheraton. It is my Go To, until the Helix improves....

$49

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It seemed to me that his takeaway point in the video was that the tuner works fine... Funny you both are taking it as the opposite.

 

Anyway, guitar tuning videos are even a more boring genre than unboxing videos...

LOLZ!

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Just look at them as 'untuning' videos, not much of a stretch with the Helix. That way they're equally boring as the unboxing ones.  ;)

 

I am working on a new video where I unbox a brand new Helix, three different Snarks, Polytune pedal, Polytune mini, Polytune Clip...   ... then compare them endlessly with some tedious and very amateurish out of tune guitar playing to a relentlessly boring drum machine track.  Hope you enjoy!  :wacko:

I'll also make sure to wear five year old socks with holes in the toes...

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After watching the video it seems the Line 6 tuner is overly sensitive while the others are not as sensitive, perhaps I would put it as the others are more tolerable.

 

If I geeked out on this I would look at surface area of the display for the tuner and re-calibrate the visual.  Change the size of the bars to truly represent the interval. The actual note "G" is represented by a certain surface area, however 10 cents to the right or left it is the exact same area,

 

Hitting the note should take up the most space of the display and then represent the intervals with the proper percentage of space on either side.

 

Outside of pulling out the slide rule-geek out complete. 

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I am working on a new video where I unbox a brand new Helix, three different Snarks, Polytune pedal, Polytune mini, Polytune Clip... ... then compare them endlessly with some tedious and very amateurish out of tune guitar playing to a relentlessly boring drum machine track. Hope you enjoy! :wacko:

I'll also make sure to wear five year old socks with holes in the toes...

Lol...

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Yep, yours is jumping around like crazy just like mine does. 

And your other tuners are spot on and "non-jumpy"

 

I think what we are seeing quite clearly, is that the helix is a bit more precise than the polytune, particularly in the fine strip.  If you ignore the fine strip, both tuners are about the same in that video.  Early releases of the helix tuner did not contain the fine strip.  It was added to provide further accuracy and I prefer it with.  For the most part, if you can get your strings roughly in the middle, not necessarily exactly in the middle on the fine, but close, you will be in tune, at least in my experience...

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What I am seeing in this video and on my own unit...is that the Helix never seems to stop moving about. The other tuners in the video were able to "capture" the note being played and allow it to be tuned. 
The Helix never seems to be sure of the note. Jumping all around. 
That's not "sensitivity" or being "precise".  That's jumpiness.

And that causes me to not be sure whether the string is really in tune or not. As I've said before...never had a tuner do this in my life. And I've used 'em all over the decades. 

I love the Helix. And the tuner display was one of the things I was excited about because it's so big. 
But I need quick clarity on a note being in tune. 

Watch the video again...the other two tuners are stable. The Helix never stops moving. That's the opposite of precision to me.

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I would ignore the "fine" strip and just focus on the big indicator.

I have a tone generator. Since we all know that a string's pitch, as a general rule, can, and often does, fluctuate slightly during the duration of the vibration (we all know this, right?) I'll bet it will be stable if I plug a tone generator in i.e. a non fluctuating stable tone.

If this is true, it says to me that it's just very sensitive i.e. accurate. I'm guessing many tuners have some kind of damping which is why they are less twitchy but actually would also mean they are less accurate. I'll report my results when I get to it. I do think it would be possible to program it to have variable damping in it. But I would want them to spend their time on a lot of other things before implementing that.

 

So I'll see about the tuners calculation of the fluctuation during the duration of the vibration. (Sorry I couldn't resist)

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Yes, digital tuners make use of some "averaging" of the input signal. That is why you don't see the PolyTune or the Strobe "jumping around". Averaging is a necessity in many different types of circuits/control system. Averaging does not make a system any less "accurate", but it does allow more "usability" in general. Take for instance the cruise control in your vehicle. Having the engine rpm jump all around to accurately keep you at 70mph is not very practical. The control loop needs some averaging or "dampening" to make the system usable and comfortable. The same goes for HVAC, lots of automotive control systems, and any other control system with an analog input signal.  

 

I think "comfort" is the main issue with the Helix tuner. Yes, it is highly accurate, but the lack of averaging or dampening ( or whatever nerd terminology is appropriate for tuner input control) makes the system uncomfortable for many. 

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[...]

Dear forum members, please don't turn this into a discussion thread.

[...]

See?! :angry:

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 @brue58ski:

I would think it would be stable. Give it a try with the tone generator. 
I don't think with a solid non-stop note coming at it, it would have any choice except to stay stable.

I know I've said this before...but I'll say it again: Back in the 1980's when there seemed to be thousands and thousands of gear manufacturers and 4 or 5 different music stores in every little town...when it came to tuners, one of the big things that companies like Boss and Korg, etc. would push in their advertisements was the ability of the tuner to zero in on the note and stabilize it for accurate and quick tuning.

In my experience...that is the problem with the Helix tuner. It doesn't seem to be able to stabilize

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[...]

Dear forum members, please don't turn this into a discussion thread.

[...]

See?! :angry:

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Line 6, can we please have your perspective concerning Helix tuner issues.

 

 

Feel free to search for one of the half dozen or so tuner threads where I've already discussed this ad nauseum.

 

Line 6 does not require nor even request that any of its employees engage in forum or social media communication. We're all here on our own dime, on our own time, often after hours. I can't speak for other Line 6ers, but technical support threads (which make up the majority of this particular forum) simply don't compel me to post, because we already have a stellar technical support and customer service team. Mention UI/UX, modeling engines, DSP allocation, MI product development, product pricing with regard to parts and labor, crazy MIDI routing, or doomgaze metal and I'll probably post (over 1800 posts so far). Mention the intricacies of sub-component modeling or amp design, and if Ben sees it, he'll probably jump in.

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Mention UI/UX, modeling engines, DSP allocation, MI product development, product pricing with regard to parts and labor, crazy MIDI routing, or doomgaze metal and I'll probably post...

OK, apparently I'm getting old...what the hell is "doomgaze metal"?

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...

 

Line 6 does not require nor even request that any of its employees engage in forum or social media communication. We're all here on our own dime, on our own time, often after hours. I can't speak for other Line 6ers, but technical support threads (which make up the majority of this particular forum) simply don't compel me to post, because we already have a stellar technical support and customer service team. Mention UI/UX, modeling engines, DSP allocation, MI product development, product pricing with regard to parts and labor, crazy MIDI routing, or doomgaze metal and I'll probably post (over 1800 posts so far). Mention the intricacies of sub-component modeling or amp design, and if Ben sees it, he'll probably jump in.

 

Agreed, L6 support is absolutely stellar! Your off the clock time and input is hugely appreciated and incredibly helpful. Big thanks!  Btw, "doomgaze tuner fix"...  :)

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cruisinon2, on 15 Jun 2017 - 10:16 AM, said:

 

OK, apparently I'm getting old...what the hell is "doomgaze metal"?

Deafheaven are pretty much the poster children for this genre (trainspotters will argue they're actually "blackgaze"), but my favorite doomgaze band is probably Spotlights.

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