Jump to content
Bangha

Line 6, can we please have your perspective concerning Helix tuner issues.

Recommended Posts

are pretty much the poster children for this genre (trainspotters will argue they're actually "blackgaze"), but my favorite doomgaze band is probably
.

DI, you are making me feel like an old man. I have no idea what that genre is or what it means.

You kids these days....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Feel free to search for one of the half dozen or so tuner threads where I've already discussed this ad nauseum.

 

Line 6 does not require nor even request that any of its employees engage in forum or social media communication. We're all here on our own dime, on our own time, often after hours. I can't speak for other Line 6ers, but technical support threads (which make up the majority of this particular forum) simply don't compel me to post, because we already have a stellar technical support and customer service team. Mention UI/UX, modeling engines, DSP allocation, MI product development, product pricing with regard to parts and labor, crazy MIDI routing, or doomgaze metal and I'll probably post (over 1800 posts so far). Mention the intricacies of sub-component modeling or amp design, and if Ben sees it, he'll probably jump in.

DI, thanks for stepping up to bat and taking your personal time to write back.

 

Customers asking for answers for a widespread problem of a core function (critical for many) on an official forum branded Line 6 Helix is not ludicrous, out of line or unexpected behavior. Courteously asking for the company’s take on isn’t so either. The half a dozen or so tuner threads reflect a widespread problem that would undoubtedly benefit from widespread answer. A support ticket does not provide such platform, mass media such as this forum does.

 

We are all on the same boat, here on our own time and dime. As much as I would rather discuss signal flow, reverse delays into distorted parallel compressed tremolos and the likes, I am still stuck trying to tune my guitar. I appreciate you may be irritated by threads like these but the ball is in Line 6’s court. No coding needed. “Yes, we’ll fix it†“No we won’t†“We’re looking into it†“Buy an extra clip-on†would suffice to put this all to rest. NDA’s concerning future product updates make perfect sense. An answer concerning a ,for many faulty,  core component simply does not.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Take for instance the cruise control in your vehicle. Having the engine rpm jump all around to accurately keep you at 70mph is not very practical. The control loop needs some averaging or "dampening" to make the system usable and comfortable. The same goes for HVAC, lots of automotive control systems, and any other control system with an analog input signal.  

 

 

I would take slight issue with your comparison as I am not trying to control or regulate the tuning of the guitar but find out what the tuning is. That is more reflective of a speedometer or tachometer. I would also then contend that the less damping either of those have, the more accurately they would reflect the speed of the vehicle or RPM of the engine at that moment. This is assuming a digital readout. Thereby giving a more precise or accurate moment by moment reading.

 

Having said that, I would say that having more dampening/averaging does make a tuner easier to read. It may be less accurate, but accuracy that precise isn't necessary, and does make it harder, when it comes to tuning, to read. However, the bottom line after this post is.....I don't really care that much. I now don't think any test I do with a tone generator will change anyone's mind. Just thought I was helping but as has been the case lately in my life, I am wrong again. :wacko:  So I think I will bail on this discussion (OH Crap! This wasn't supposed to be a discussion). I will leave this to those that care more than I do. Not to imply that caring about it is a character flaw. See ya in a different thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would take slight issue with your comparison as I am not trying to control or regulate the tuning of the guitar but find out what the tuning is. That is more reflective of a speedometer or tachometer. I would also then contend that the less damping either of those have, the more accurately they would reflect the speed of the vehicle or RPM of the engine at that moment. This is assuming a digital readout. Thereby giving a more precise or accurate moment by moment reading.

 

Having said that, I would say that having more dampening/averaging does make a tuner easier to read. It may be less accurate, but accuracy that precise isn't necessary, and does make it harder, when it comes to tuning, to read. However, the bottom line after this post is.....I don't really care that much. I now don't think any test I do with a tone generator will change anyone's mind. Just thought I was helping but as has been the case lately in my life, I am wrong again. :wacko:  So I think I will bail on this discussion (OH Crap! This wasn't supposed to be a discussion). I will leave this to those that care more than I do. Not to imply that caring about it is a character flaw. See ya in a different thread.

 

Yeah, man, this whole concept has been killing me.  I keep responding then erasing because I want to remain civil.  You hit the nail on the head.  Personally, perhaps because I'm an engineer, I can wrap my head around averaging the result in my head, and I actually prefer the "higher accuracy" as you say.  The "jumpiness" does not bother me, and, in fact, I prefer it.  I want a real time result and I can tune faster with it in fact.

 

Then again, I'm no expert in tuning and the physics involved with the display of the result, and maybe there is a solution which will make "everyone" happy.  I'll still get my resolution, and others can see a steady needle.

 

I just hope, and thankfully they have proven to act this way in the past, Line 6 doesn't act till somebody who is complaining actually posts a video showing the problem.  Why hasn't anyone posted a video of the problem yet?  Would it be so hard?  The video above is not showing anything worth addressing to me, and is what I see.

 

Faulty implies broken.  It's not broken.  The tuner works (unless somebody can show me how it doesn't, it works for all my guitars and bass (not that I have a ton)).  The issue is some people like the UI implementation, others don't, and so far it seems a little better than 50/50 on keeping it the way it is.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never had a guitar out of tune after using the Helix tuner. Never.  Always in tune when I'm finished.  However the interface is jumpy.  Now the Line 6 Sonic Port and Mobile Pod tuner graphic is great and not jumpy.  I can tune my guitars adequately using either one, or a tuner in my iPad, a clip on or a pitch pipe.  Same result every time.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, I would like to know a fairly definitive answer.  Will it continue to see revisions or is it considered a finished product?  I saw in Ideascale there was an suggestion about fixing the tuner and it is listed as resolved so I am guessing Line 6 considers it fixed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, I would like to know a fairly definitive answer.  Will it continue to see revisions or is it considered a finished product?  I saw in Ideascale there was an suggestion about fixing the tuner and it is listed as resolved so I am guessing Line 6 considers it fixed?

 

 

I think they're done talking about it, as Digital Igloo mentions above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, I would like to know a fairly definitive answer.  Will it continue to see revisions or is it considered a finished product?  I saw in Ideascale there was an suggestion about fixing the tuner and it is listed as resolved so I am guessing Line 6 considers it fixed?

 

I don't think they'll ever say anything is a finished product in that it's untouchable or something like that, but I imagine it's low on their priority list at this point... I mean, it's a tuner.

 

Right now, it's all hands on deck for Native.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think they'll ever say anything is a finished product in that it's untouchable or something like that, but I imagine it's low on their priority list at this point... I mean, it's a tuner.

 

Right now, it's all hands on deck for Native.

Fair enough, without reiterating everything that has been said about it, the tuner is a little jumpy for my tastes.  I've had better experiences with a Boss TU-2, a Polytune2 Mini and the Polytune clip tuner.  Unfortunately I don't want to carry additional pedals or have to rig up the clip tuner every time, so I'll just have to deal  :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(NOTE TO ALCON:, just because I don't have a problem with the Helix's tuner doesn't mean that I'm not sympathetic to your tuner-woes.  I sincerely hope that all of your issues with the Helix tuner are logged in Ideascale and that they get enough votes or attention from the AWESOME Line 6 team to be remedied to your satisfaction! )

 

I just hope, and thankfully they have proven to act this way in the past, Line 6 doesn't act till somebody who is complaining actually posts a video showing the problem.  Why hasn't anyone posted a video of the problem yet?  Would it be so hard?  The video above is not showing anything worth addressing to me, and is what I see.

 

 

Ya - kind of why I posted it. I shot it on a whim over a month ago, and thought about posting it and didn't.   I don't have a dog in this fight, but when I saw this thread I thought it might be interesting to see what different folks see.  Turns out that different folks see different things.  (surprise surprise!)

 

What see that the Helix's fat-bars are more accurate than a TC Polytune, and less than a Strobostomp.  The skinny bars are jumpy enough to annoy me, but useful enough for me not to drag a strobe tuner out (or any other tuner). 

 

The Polytune has always been more than adequate for live and recording (for me).  Interestingly, many folks on this and other threads say that they'll use a Polytune or a Polytune Clip - but the Helix is clearly more accurate (to me) even when you ignore the slim bars.   I.e.,  Even when the Polytune shows dead steady, the Helix's fat-bars sometimes show that the pitch is still off.  

 

If you pay attention, the Strobo almost never stands dead still - it's a strobe tuner after all.  It's very useful for doing setup adjustments if you're going to hit the studio or what not - but you'll ALWAYS see it change as the string rings out - it's just that sensitive.   That may not be apparent over the whole course of the clip. 

 

Finally, if you're wondering why it took me so long to tune my beautiful PRS in that clip - it's because while I was shooting it I'd just discovered that my baby needed a new nut - the D-String slot was overworn and not intonatable.  Sad. Funny thing is that all three tuners provided enough information to determine this, and incidentally, so did my ears ;-)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my vid. Just made it. 
Brand new Ernie Ball Paradigm strings on my Floyd Rose Model K Redmond Series guitar (these new Paradigm strings are GREAT by the way)

I'm using the Helix tuner and my Korg rackmount DTR 2000 tuner (which has the same exact specs as I have seen posted here about the Helix tuners specs)

Started with the guitar in tune. 

Observe how the Korg "grabs" the note very quickly. The Helix meanwhile tends to jump all around, and on the D string it was just reading wrong. 
My complaint has been since I first got my Helix back in Oct. of 2015 that the tuner was too jumpy. And that was when it only had the one bar.  Now with two bars...it's double-jumpy! LOL!

As I said before...most of us who play in professional bands only have a couple of seconds to check our tuning between songs. Not a lot of dead air in a pro band that is putting on a show. The drummer is counting off the next song before the last song has finished ringing out. 
The jumpiness is unacceptable for me. 
Here's the vid:

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my vid. Just made it. 

Brand new Ernie Ball Paradigm strings on my Floyd Rose Model K Redmond Series guitar (these new Paradigm strings are GREAT by the way)

I'm using the Helix tuner and my Korg rackmount DTR 2000 tuner (which has the same exact specs as I have seen posted here about the Helix tuners specs)

Started with the guitar in tune. 

Observe how the Korg "grabs" the note very quickly. The Helix meanwhile tends to jump all around, and on the D string it was just reading wrong. 

My complaint has been since I first got my Helix back in Oct. of 2015 that the tuner was too jumpy. And that was when it only had the one bar.  Now with two bars...it's double-jumpy! LOL!

As I said before...most of us who play in professional bands only have a couple of seconds to check our tuning between songs. Not a lot of dead air in a pro band that is putting on a show. The drummer is counting off the next song before the last song has finished ringing out. 

The jumpiness is unacceptable for me. 

Here's the vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH7SzUHQ078

Robbie, thanks for taking the time out to make that video. It shows the problem many of us are seeing. In my case tuner jumps around even more, worse on the lower pitched strings. It'd certainly be in everyone's interest to have this addressed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with the Helix tuner is that it's precise.  Probably more so than most people need or want.  I can tune in the same time and with the same results as the tuner on my AX8, my Snark, my Korg, or TU-3.  It's simply a matter of understanding that the fine tuning section at the top of the display is more sensitive.  On my guitars that have double locking systems with fine tuners, the top section is smooth and not jumpy.  On those with less precise tuning machines, it jumps around a little unless I'm more careful.

 

What if the top section was further subdivided or had a "needle" indicator instead of large blocks?  Would it appear less jumpy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with the Helix tuner is that it's precise.  Probably more so than most people need or want.  I can tune in the same time and with the same results as the tuner on my AX8, my Snark, my Korg, or TU-3.  It's simply a matter of understanding that the fine tuning section at the top of the display is more sensitive.  On my guitars that have double locking systems with fine tuners, the top section is smooth and not jumpy.  On those with less precise tuning machines, it jumps around a little unless I'm more careful.

 

What if the top section was further subdivided or had a "needle" indicator instead of large blocks?  Would it appear less jumpy?

The Korg tuner I used in my video has the same exact specs as far as tuning accuracy is concerned.

In my opinion...it's not being "precise" when the thing is jumping all around and never stabilizes. 

 

I've never seen any tuner exhibit the kind of behavior that the Helix one does.  The Korg zeroes in on the note and gives a stable readout. The Helix never stops moving. 

I'm never 100% SURE that I'm in tune because my visual on the Helix never stops moving around. 

 

THAT is the problem...not the accuracy or "precision" (whatever that term would mean in this context...precision is when something works flawlessly like a fine watch). It's the inability of the Helix tuner to be able to stabilize itself. 

If you watch the video...the Korg DTR 2000 almost instantly stabilizes the note. Meanwhile, the Helix is blinking and jumping all over the place. 

It it were "precise" then it would STOP on the note and show me "precisely" where it is. LIke every other tuner in the world.

 

It's just frustrating when trying to tune up onstage with only a few seconds available to do so.  Trying to think to myself: "Well, the tuner is still jumping all around...but I'm probably close enough" just isn't acceptable in a working situation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... The Korg zeroes in on the note and gives a stable readout. The Helix never stops moving. 
I'm never 100% SURE that I'm in tune because my visual on the Helix never stops moving around...

 

The fact that one is constantly moving and one is not, by logic, makes me think that the one that isn't moving is "fudging" and is, by that measure, actually LESS accurate. Seriously. Because any note from a guitar string is never 100% the same pitch from one moment to the next.

...It it were "precise" then it would STOP on the note and show me "precisely" where it is...

Again, I believe this logic is flawed.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my vid. Just made it. 

Brand new Ernie Ball Paradigm strings on my Floyd Rose Model K Redmond Series guitar (these new Paradigm strings are GREAT by the way)

 

I'm using the Helix tuner and my Korg rackmount DTR 2000 tuner (which has the same exact specs as I have seen posted here about the Helix tuners specs)

 

Started with the guitar in tune. 

 

Observe how the Korg "grabs" the note very quickly. The Helix meanwhile tends to jump all around, and on the D string it was just reading wrong. 

My complaint has been since I first got my Helix back in Oct. of 2015 that the tuner was too jumpy. And that was when it only had the one bar.  Now with two bars...it's double-jumpy! LOL!

 

As I said before...most of us who play in professional bands only have a couple of seconds to check our tuning between songs. Not a lot of dead air in a pro band that is putting on a show. The drummer is counting off the next song before the last song has finished ringing out. 

The jumpiness is unacceptable for me. 

Here's the vid:

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I guess I don't see anything unexpected in that video. It looks like perhaps the Korg is perhaps ignoring the decay of the note in some way, but in reality the Helix display is showing whats actually happening. When you pluck a string, the pitch from the attack is going to be sharper than the decay, and it will naturally go slightly flat as the it trails off. The Helix's display clearly shows that happening. The trick is to just tune to the attack. Perhaps since I spend a fair amount of time playing mandolin, I'm more used to this, because with a mandolin string it's almost all attack and no sustain anyway.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really? You guys didn't see the Korg instantly stable while Helix is still "searching". 
Then I don't know what to say. 

I guess I'm just stupid or something. And every other tuner I've ever owned must have been faulty. 

I'll just keep using my Boss tuner I guess. The Helix is apparently too precise for me to use. :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really? You guys didn't see the Korg instantly stable while Helix is still "searching". 

Then I don't know what to say. 

 

 

yes, I saw that. It made me feel like it might have been "fudging", since pitches change from moment to moment, especially on a guitar.

 

It is possible that for many people, the nature of Helix's tuner makes it unsuitable for their particular situation. That's okay. In pretty much every case where people are complaining, they are comparing it to another tuner that they already own that they prefer.

 

Just use that tuner...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't used my Boss tuner in over a decade. Kept the Korg tuner in my rack as a separate tuner for my Ovation.
So "no" I wasn't trying to compare it to anything. But if I did...shouldn't the Helix be "better" to use? Used a small Korg tuner in the late 1970's. Worked great. Switched to Boss tuner in the mid 1980s. Worked great. 
Got the Boss GT5 in the mid 1990's (my first modeling system). Used the tuner on it. Worked great.

In 2000 I used the tuner on my Roland VGA7 amp. Worked great.
In 2002 I moved to a Marshall stack and used my Boss tuner
In 2003 I got a Line 6 Vetta amp. Used it's tuner. Worked great.

In 2005 went to a rack system with a Bogner Ecstasy head and a G System. Used the G System tuner. Worked great.
In 2010 got the HD 500 and a DT 50. Used the tuner on the HD 500. Worked great.
In 2015 got the Helix. And apparently dont' have the ability to understand the sheer complexity of it's tuner.

Not wanting to argue. But it's very frustrating. 
A tuner is so freaking simple. It shouldn't be jumpy at all. It should have the ability to catch the note and let you tune it and be stable. 
There simply is no other tuner that I'm aware of that jumps all around like the Helix one does. 
 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really? You guys didn't see the Korg instantly stable while Helix is still "searching". 

Then I don't know what to say. 

 

I guess I'm just stupid or something. And every other tuner I've ever owned must have been faulty. 

 

I'll just keep using my Boss tuner I guess. The Helix is apparently too precise for me to use. :)

 

I certainly would never call anyone stupid based on their tuner preference... Now if you put ketchup on steak or some other atrocity like that, maybe... :D

 

I have seriously read complaints about the tuners on virtually every Line 6 device from people. I think they've become more amplified with the Helix because of the nice color screen makes the tuner seem like a bigger feature, and people naturally want to be able to use it... I mean, I'd feel frustrated too if I felt it was difficult to use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I wasn't suggesting anything...I was just being self-deprecating to try and be humorous by calling myself "stupid". :)

I never heard any of the complaints (nor did I have any) about the tuner on my Vetta or on my HD 500. Can't speak for any other products.. 
And yeah...the first day I got my Helix I showed it to another guitarist and the very FIRST thing I demonstrated was the tuner display! 

We were both "oohing and awwing" over it. I remember joking that it wouldn't matter how drunk I got...I would still be able to see my tuner! lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now if you put ketchup on steak or some other atrocity like that, maybe... :D

 

 

Better than putting Catsup on a hot dog. That **** is WRONG!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Better than putting Catsup on a hot dog. That **** is WRONG!

What is the point of "Catsup" anyway? 

Can we all agree that Ketchup is the ONLY tomato based condiment that should be used on French Fries?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Better than putting Catsup on a hot dog. That **** is WRONG!

Then you haven't tried putting "Catsup" on a hotdog and then rolling it in crushed korn flakes...

 

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then you haven't tried putting "Catsup" on a hotdog and then rolling it in crushed korn flakes...

 

;)

 

giphy.gif

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So after all this, I just hope Line 6 doesn't take "my" precision display away.  I can hear the difference between what the Korg stabilized on and turning the tuner to get the string within a top line block on the Helix.  That extra precision is worth it to me.  I haven't seen any "jumpiness" in any of the videos I've seen.  To me the tuner is just showing me how the string is decaying in detail.  Hopefully, if they do anything, they make two modes, precise and averaged, or whatever you want to call it...

 

Take into account I'm an engineer by trade, so I'm used to seeing through the details.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So after all this, I just hope Line 6 doesn't take "my" precision display away.  I can hear the difference between what the Korg stabilized on and turning the tuner to get the string within a top line block on the Helix.  That extra precision is worth it to me.  I haven't seen any "jumpiness" in any of the videos I've seen.  To me the tuner is just showing me how the string is decaying in detail.  Hopefully, if they do anything, they make two modes, precise and averaged, or whatever you want to call it...

 

Take into account I'm an engineer by trade, so I'm used to seeing through the details.

 

"Momma don't take my Kodachrome awaaaaaaaay". How about two modes "jumpy" and "not jumpy"?   :P

 

Maybe two modes is the way to go, but I think we can get more stability with a negligible sacrifice on granularity for the "live" mode. We are looking for a workable compromise between the two, granularity and usability, which is I think the same decision most other tuner manufacturers have successfully accomplished. It all comes down to that momentary freeze/pause that provides a usable reference point. To go back to the "Kodachrome" analogy the aperture on a camera is timed to open at the ideal moment with the peak of the flash for flash photography. Of course the light emitted by the flash will immediately start to dim and the light fluctuate after it is first set off. The camera's job is to synch the two as best as possible. Another admittedly rough analogy - atomic clocks are very precise but wouldn't be very handy for telling time if the hour and minute hands were wobbling constantly between the numbers or the 'second hand' kept jumping backwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about just a regular tuner that works great like all the other professional tuners out there. 
Jesus...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about just a regular tuner that works great like all the other professional tuners out there. 

Jesus...

Because that would just make perfect sense, and it all points to the fact that Line 6, and their aggregates and minions have apparently chosen not to make sense on this one. They just keep sweeping the big problem under a very tiny rug but it keeps popping out the other end. It's your fault that you can't use a jumpy tuner. If you were granular and smart enough you'd make sense of it. It's the emperors new clothes I tell ya. Your video should worry them, it shows a clear issue yet they come back either offended, questioning your choice of words and telling you to use another tuner, because the €1500 computer you purchased for all things guitar doesn't work as well as the €8 clip on. The proverbial middle finger to customers. Just appalling, but highly entertaining! I've been trying to reason with the minions for too long Robbie, make your point but don't expect any coherent replies. I feel your pain!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because that would just make perfect sense, and it all points to the fact that Line 6, and their aggregates and minions have apparently chosen not to make sense on this one. They just keep sweeping the big problem under a very tiny rug but it keeps popping out the other end. It's your fault that you can't use a jumpy tuner. If you were granular and smart enough you'd make sense of it. It's the emperors new clothes I tell ya. Your video should worry them, it shows a clear issue yet they come back either offended, questioning your choice of words and telling you to use another tuner, because the €1500 computer you purchased for all things guitar doesn't work as well as the €8 clip on. The proverbial middle finger to customers. Just appalling, but highly entertaining! I've been trying to reason with the minions for too long Robbie, make your point but don't expect any coherent replies. I feel your pain!

 

So have I just been pretending to use the tuner on my Helix for these last two years (or last year since it was updated)? The term "emperor's new clothes" would certainly imply that... I mean, do you think the people who say they have no problems with the tuner are lying?

 

I have no problem whatsoever with people expressing their opinion about the tuner or any other function, but for some reason, these threads always seem to devolve into people questioning the motives of others... I don't get it. What motive would people have for saying they like the tuner and that it works for them other than just that? Are we all part of the covert Line 6 tuner design team?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So have I just been pretending to use the tuner on my Helix for these last two years (or last year since it was updated)? The term "emperor's new clothes" would certainly imply that... I mean, do you think the people who say they have no problems with the tuner are lying?

 

I have no problem whatsoever with people expressing their opinion about the tuner or any other function, but for some reason, these threads always seem to devolve into people questioning the motives of others... I don't get it. What motive would people have for saying they like the tuner and that it works for them other than just that? Are we all part of the covert Line 6 tuner design team?

 

 

Don't you know that you and I are mindless fan bois, Phil?

 

No, seriously... the problem is it's too accurate and fast. If it was less accurate and slow, more people would be happy with it... I'm becoming convinced of this.

 

Fact is... there are those who need to tune really really fast between songs in a live situation who think it's unsuitable.

 

I think they are right, but for different reasons than they might guess. And in virtually all cases where they are complaining, they are comparing to another tuner they prefer which they already own. Well, duh, use that tuner, then.

 

Also, anyone who can tune their guitar with any tuner in 15 seconds isn't getting their guitar in tune as well as the guy who takes a minute or two... I bet if I could test that it would turn out to be very true. 

 

For me, my guitars don't drift very much tuning-wise, so I don't need to tune as often as others do, but I don't play real long sets of music either... at least not very much...

 

but again, us mindless fan bois... sheesh... I bet you put Catsup on Hot Dogs, too, man... so lame...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Peter and Phil:
I don't think anyone is lying. Why would anyone do that?
I also don't think it's "too accurate and too fast".

If that were the case it would QUICKLY stabilize and ACCURATELY allow me to tune. 

For a pro musician tuning onstage while the drummer is counting to "4" for the next song...it is the exact opposite of accurate and fast. More like unstable and un-Godly slow to use. 

I think that some of the people are just getting so frustrated with being told that it's "them" and not the tuner... that they are letting that get the better of them in the conversation.
You have to realize...when you tell me that I just don't understand how to use a guitar tuner...it's insulting. 
I'm sure you don't mean it to be insulting. That's why I try to let it slide off my back. 

I really do think Line 6 has a problem with this tuner. 

I have never heard of a tuner being the subject of multiple posts, a poll, arguments amongst people, etc. 
Tuners are something that just always work. 

The fact that all of this commotion is going on about the tuner should be a red flag to Line 6 to do something about it. 
I know if I get emails and complaints about something specific on my sites...I am going to investigate. And 9 times out of 10 the customers are right. 

And in business...the customer is ALWAYS right. Doesn't have to be ALL our our customers. But if a big percentage of them report stuff to me...I'm gonna figure out the problem and fix it. 

I think that's something that's kinda getting under people's skin too. Nobody at Line 6 or the people who test stuff for them are acknowledging it. From my perspective it just seems like y'all are being over-defensive and proclaiming that there is nothing wrong. 

Just wanted you guys to know, I'm not wanting to argue with anyone or attack anyone personally over a tuner. :)  I'm just hoping  I can just ONE of the people at Line 6 or a beta-tester to say: "Hey, that is screwed up....maybe we should see if we can make it work more usefully" .

:)

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a pro musician tuning onstage while the drummer is counting to "4" for the next song...

 

 

I can not tune in the time it takes a drummer to count to 4. Who can? Is that really what you mean? That's freakin' impossible.

 

However, for very quick tuning, even if not entirely totally accurate (because of the display limitations) every guitarist alive should have one of the iterations of Polytune imho. I have the Clip version and ADORE it (even if I generally don't use it when using Helix).

 

I never have to tune that quick, but if I did, one strum, and a display that shows me all 6 strings, then a quick tweak, and you're good to go...

 

... Helix tuner is not designed to compete with something like that, and probably never will be ... It's too accurate (runs and hides...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what I'm talking about Peter...you're questioning me as if I'm a liar.
YES...I can quickly check all my strings to make sure they are in tune in between songs. I didn't mean that I was tuning my guitar in a matter of a couple of seconds.  If you are a pro and play onstage you know exactly what I mean. Especially if you are playing in a band that puts on a show.

And every tuner I've ever owned...including the ones in the Vetta and HD500 were more than adequate to quickly check my tuning. 
Now if I'm actually way out of tune (which really doesn't happen)...then yes...I would whisper to the lead singer to give me a second and talk to the crowd. And again...I NEED a tuner that is stable and allows me to quickly tune under that circumstance as well.

I'm kinda feeling like maybe there are two different worlds of guitar players here. In the world I'm operating in...the Helix tuner NEEDS to be able to perform as well as a cheap clip-on tuner in terms of getting the job done quickly and accurately. 
And with that big, beautiful display...it should be a shining jewel in the crown of the Helix instead of a never-ending controversy amongst guitarists here on the Helix forum. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you saying that Congress acts quicker than Line 6?

😂

Lately? Don't be ridiculous...they don't act at all these days. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...