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Want to make a FRFR bass and guitar stage monitor setup

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Hi all- I play bass through  the Helix and via a Bassman 2 X 10"  with a compression driver that is a low end-y $ amp but for whatever reason it sits in the mix great along with  a Markbass booster with VLE at about 10:00 . I also play guitar through an Alto TS110 and send separate feeds of both to the FOH via the 1/4" and the XLR. All Mono... The gig I play mostly bass but when I switch to guitar the keyboard player takes my bass. Works well. I want to find a comparable sounding 2x10 (total) bass and guitar rig maybe by use of another Alto but likely to switch to something else. I have fear to go to 2 12" I will lose the punch I love about the Bassman but 2 X10" I may not find a powered speaker that has the SPL. 

 

Bottom line- I'm wondering if anyone else uses the Helix and FRFR for Bass and if so, what do you recommend? I want a separate 2 speaker system so I have stero options for other gigs where I only play guitar etc. 

 

Thanks in advance...

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Hi, no real advice from my side but the same target. And i want it small and really really light.

 

I think, a modern machine like the helix and usual speakers (wooden enclosure) is a bit like a F1 engine powering a tank ;) It works, but is it smart?

 

So im planning and just starting to build powerd cabs for myself, but 12" as i don't belive that 10" stands for punch where 12" does not - don't see a physical relation in this therory.

 

I'm going to a pair of 45 liters (inside) vented housings made from a XPS-carbon sandwich - weight about 2,0 kg each. Inside a 12" coax - first try with Emience Beta12CX + ASD1001, but i have a look onto the new FaitalPro 12HX30. Both coaxes are about 4.3 kg. Both deliver a reasonable Xmax for bass and PA use (not needed for guitar), both seem to be pretty linear FRFR with a DSP. OK - the Faitalpro wil probavly cost 4 times the Emi - we eill se if it's such better.

 

Each unit will be powered by a Hypex PSC2.400 Module, delivering 2 chanels 400 W RMS (but "only" 500 W RMS togehter) with a powerful and fully configurable DSP. The module is 1.1 kg.

 

So i'm at 7,4 kg for each 500W RMS 12" DSP-powered Coax and some grains for corners,cables and handle.

The DSP tuned for FRFR should give me more than enough power and flexibility for guitar and bass at 15 kg and a small PA down to about 60 Hz.

 

In case of emergency, t think about building an aditional 2x15" Sub in the same way but with a 1200W RMS Module for about 17 kg.

 

That's the plan, the first compoments should arrive next week :)

I just think that the Helix could match better such a construction than a ton of wood, but that's just opinion and taste ;)

 

I got some ideas from the fractal forum, the talkbass forum, Xitone cabs, flitecabs, some expieriences with the building of my full carbon guitar. Plus some ideas from airplane construction, some composite-forums..... So the idea is perhaps not new but a way for me to get what i want when others does'nt sell it ;) And i'm not shure if there's a comparable concept on the market - i did'nt finde one.

And i'll bet real carbon housings will look more cool than vinyl with a Helix :) And i want a orange glowing powerswitch on the front - nearly impossible to find on powered cabs and one of the first reasons to think about buildig it by myself.

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There's nothing wrong with a DIY approach. Nonetheless, for use with Bass as well as Guitar, the Line 6 StageSource L3 Active Monitors (M or T models) immediately come to mind. If I recall correctly, their 2x10 plus 1" Driver, can be configured such that the second 10" speaker handles the lower end frequency content. Conveniently, they are also capable of being serially connected using the Line6 L6 Link on the Helix. Granted, they're pricey and heavy, but they may give you the sound you're seeking, for both Guitar and Bass.

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Disclosure, I just play in my house at the moment, so this isn't exactly a solution with gigging in mind.  

 

I used to run a single TS215 on a pole for everything.  I wanted some stereo separation for mods and delays, so I picked up a couple of cheap powered 10" 2 way monitors for that.  Turned out with some decent EQing they sounded a little better for guitar stuff and my Alto has been relegated to only when I'm playing bass or my Minilogue.  What I end up doing is splitting my signal before the output with a crossover block, then routing everything 100Hz and above in stereo to the little cabs (which crap out around 90Hz anyway), and the low end summed to mono to the big Alto.  This cuts the Alto's high driver, which ends up being a bit of a waste of talent.  I've been considering selling it and replacing it with an actual powered sub instead. 

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Hi, no real advice from my side but the same target. And i want it small and really really light.

 

I think, a modern machine like the helix and usual speakers (wooden enclosure) is a bit like a F1 engine powering a tank ;) It works, but is it smart?

 

So im planning and just starting to build powerd cabs for myself, but 12" as i don't belive that 10" stands for punch where 12" does not - don't see a physical relation in this therory.

 

I'm going to a pair of 45 liters (inside) vented housings made from a XPS-carbon sandwich - weight about 2,0 kg each. Inside a 12" coax - first try with Emience Beta12CX + ASD1001, but i have a look onto the new FaitalPro 12HX30. Both coaxes are about 4.3 kg. Both deliver a reasonable Xmax for bass and PA use (not needed for guitar), both seem to be pretty linear FRFR with a DSP. OK - the Faitalpro wil probavly cost 4 times the Emi - we eill se if it's such better.

 

Each unit will be powered by a Hypex PSC2.400 Module, delivering 2 chanels 400 W RMS (but "only" 500 W RMS togehter) with a powerful and fully configurable DSP. The module is 1.1 kg.

 

So i'm at 7,4 kg for each 500W RMS 12" DSP-powered Coax and some grains for corners,cables and handle.

The DSP tuned for FRFR should give me more than enough power and flexibility for guitar and bass at 15 kg and a small PA down to about 60 Hz.

 

In case of emergency, t think about building an aditional 2x15" Sub in the same way but with a 1200W RMS Module for about 17 kg.

 

That's the plan, the first compoments should arrive next week :)

I just think that the Helix could match better such a construction than a ton of wood, but that's just opinion and taste ;)

 

I got some ideas from the fractal forum, the talkbass forum, Xitone cabs, flitecabs, some expieriences with the building of my full carbon guitar. Plus some ideas from airplane construction, some composite-forums..... So the idea is perhaps not new but a way for me to get what i want when others does'nt sell it ;) And i'm not shure if there's a comparable concept on the market - i did'nt finde one.

And i'll bet real carbon housings will look more cool than vinyl with a Helix :) And i want a orange glowing powerswitch on the front - nearly impossible to find on powered cabs and one of the first reasons to think about buildig it by myself.

This sounds very cool.... Please post your project progress. 

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The thing with a lot of the FRFR things is I'm not a fan of the small driver. Looking at the 12" alto subwoofers, you can actually switch off teh crossover filter so teh thing gets the whole frequency response. They aren't wedges but for both applications would think they'd fit the bill. Am I missing something? 

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Switching off the crossover does'nt make a linear speaker or a instrument speaker out of a woofer ;)

Subwoofer drivers are usually designed with other aims, so i think you will miss a lot of the high end and usually you will get a lot of coloration in the midrange. So just the opposite of FRFR.

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Hi all- I play bass through  the Helix and via a Bassman 2 X 10"  with a compression driver that is a low end-y $ amp but for whatever reason it sits in the mix great along with  a Markbass booster with VLE at about 10:00 . I also play guitar through an Alto TS110 and send separate feeds of both to the FOH via the 1/4" and the XLR. All Mono... The gig I play mostly bass but when I switch to guitar the keyboard player takes my bass. Works well. I want to find a comparable sounding 2x10 (total) bass and guitar rig maybe by use of another Alto but likely to switch to something else. I have fear to go to 2 12" I will lose the punch I love about the Bassman but 2 X10" I may not find a powered speaker that has the SPL. 

 

Bottom line- I'm wondering if anyone else uses the Helix and FRFR for Bass and if so, what do you recommend? I want a separate 2 speaker system so I have stero options for other gigs where I only play guitar etc. 

 

Thanks in advance...

 

I play both bass and guitar through my Helix for different bands. At home, for practice, guitar just goes direct to our QSC K10 that we use for vocals. For bass, I run into the FX return of a MarkBass SD800 into their 1x15 RJ cab. Live, I generally just run into FOH with no amps on stage. Figure it's better to let the PA system do its job. Haven't really had any problems with this approach yet, at least in turns of FOH sound. Monitoring is a different animal, but I gave in and bought some in-ears, so that problem is solved now. For gigs where I can't rely on the venue's PA, or where they just don't have a suitable PA (it's only for vocals, for example), I will just bring the practice rig. Last night we played a house show (I was playing guitar) and one of the other bands offered to share a cab, so I just brought one of my tube heads to run the Helix into. I think that's probably the best solution, but it's a lot heavier than just bringing the K10, so I dunno. I may look into building a lightweight solid state combo setup for these sorts of situations.

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The Accugroove FRFR line seem to be the best solution for guitar and bass that I have found, in research anyway. Pretty pricy though, especially for the active models. An Espresso or two are definitely on my wishlist.

 

http://www.accugroovellc.com/frfr

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