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Organic and Low Gain Overdrive sound clips


ddmilne
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Is there any sound clips to prove the helix can do organic sounding overdrives for the low gain stuff? I am still not able to buy any of these units becasue the presets are so awful. Not having evidence is a tough call when your putting out major coin

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Have you seriously looked - 

Clean - 

 

Low Gain - 

 

So apart from a batch of users saying - no problem - it is so much like the amps it models, that it is more that you aren't necessarily monitoring in the same environment as you might with a cleanish Hendrix sound for example with a double stack of Marshalls behind you - that it becomes actually everything you wanted from those amps in a more predictable way - that's my experience.  You do need to learn to set the thing up for your rig - you can't expect to sound like a fender blackface if you plug it into a Marshall!  But if you run it FRFR, you can do an excellent impersonation of a Blackface (for example) and with the flexibility of delay after your speaker and mic - just like the studio sounds you love on the record.

But if you start not wanting to buy into the digital simulation, you will find fault till you give up - you have to think of it as an amp in the studio and you are the engineer.

You hear the examples I've just supplied - they might not be to your taste - I don't know because you did not pick an actual sound to have created in the Helix - but I've not found anything that I can't get an extremely good version of - with a little effort.  That's something you can't do with a normal rig - it will have a range of sounds around the center on that natural sound of the amp, and might be great in that range, but unable to go outside that basic flavour.

And can I have a gained up sound and turn the volume down and have the amp clean up naturally - absolutely.

What's more most people's low gain sounds are likely to be augmented by a pedal - check this classic low gain pedal test - not 100% but you only know because you are A/Bing the sounds - not better or worse but just slightly different as 2 Klons would be.

and a last one - it's taken me about 10-15mins to find these and write this - 

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Is there any sound clips to prove the helix can do organic sounding overdrives for the low gain stuff? I am still not able to buy any of these units becasue the presets are so awful. Not having evidence is a tough call when your putting out major coin

Like with any modeling unit presets will take tweaking. Consider that whomever made the preset probably has a different playing style, used a different guitar, with different pickups, out of a different sound source, in a different room. They do take a bit of tweaking, which is no different than sitting down in front of a physical amp and pedalboard you plan to take for a test drive. 

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One of my favorites is to just drop in the Brit Plexi Bright amp model, turn the gain down to 6.0, then your favorite reverb, 4x12 Breenback25 cab model, Royer 121 mic model at 1", Strat on neck pickup, adjust volume on guitar as desired. Helix does clean, low gain, and crunch VERY well. 

 

My suggestion would be to not use the presets as an example. Instead, scroll through all the amp/cab model blocks with nothing else in your signal chain. Play around with your volume pot on your favorite guitar and see what it sounds like. Some of my favorite low gain amp models are the DrZ Rte 66, Matchless DC30, Hiwatt, and pretty much all the Fender models.

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I am finding that most of the overdrives sound like a broken speaker to me at times.

 

If that's the case you have something messed up in your setup.  Most likely too much gain on the amp when engaging the overdrive or too hot a signal.  There is also a significant difference in the way certain amps work together with an overdrive.  I've found the HiWatt to be much more "overdrive friendly" than something like a Mesa for example.

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If that's the case you have something messed up in your setup.  Most likely too much gain on the amp when engaging the overdrive or too hot a signal.  There is also a significant difference in the way certain amps work together with an overdrive.  I've found the HiWatt to be much more "overdrive friendly" than something like a Mesa for example.

Overdrives and amps are like wine and cheese... you have to pair them in a way that is tasty to you. I have found a few tasty combinations that I go back to almost all the time. You just have to find what hits your own taste buds. If you have a particular player's tone that you like, find out what they are using and use the modeled version in the Helix. It will be pretty darn close. 

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If the overdrives sound too buzzy, it might be that you're trying to drive an amp that's set too clean. It may be somewhat counter-intuitive, but overdrives and distortions often sound better when going into an amp that isn't totally clean. They work better with an amp that's being pushed already. That's the same in the real world and in the Helix.

 

Pete Thorn does a good job of explaining here:

 

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I am finding that most of the overdrives sound like a broken speaker to me at times.

Or you actually have a broken speaker. You have to actively try to get broken speaker sound from Helix. Granted, some of the overdrives (the OCD and DOD) are not to my taste, but this just seems silly.

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Or you actually have a broken speaker. You have to actively try to get broken speaker sound from Helix. Granted, some of the overdrives (the OCD and DOD) are not to my taste, but this just seems silly.

 

LOL

 

In my collection of 8 patches that I use, only one is sort of high gain... well, it's high gain to me anyway.

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Or you actually have a broken speaker. You have to actively try to get broken speaker sound from Helix. Granted, some of the overdrives (the OCD and DOD) are not to my taste, but this just seems silly.

This test was done in the store through several amps. As I have said previously, In my area most guitarists are finding the same thing. No separation between notes on chords , muddled or choppy overdrive/distortion and often sharp to the point of harshness. This is something I fell Line6 has to work on to resolve. It has a very presentable look to the hardware, even desired, but they need to really do more on all sounds coming from this unit. It has an envelope sound to most amp modals that is the signature of heavy processing. this too needs to go for the 2K or 1K it takes to buy one of these. I am for the Helix in principle. But there needs to be much more work done to make it competitive and palletable at that price. It needs to be stage ready for any genre.Most Helix owners don't want to hear that and have rather crude remarks to anyone providing positive feedback on what needs to be improved. Its competitor, HeadRush, is worse in this regard. when you hear pristine advertised sounds on a product and cant her the same live, it is like false advertisement in a sense and it is very disappointing when your excited about a product. This is the last I will comment on the product, but Line6, you could really be the top player with a bit more work.

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This test was done in the store through several amps. As I have said previously, In my area most guitarists are finding the same thing. No separation between notes on chords , muddled or choppy overdrive/distortion and often sharp to the point of harshness. This is something I fell Line6 has to work on to resolve. It has a very presentable look to the hardware, even desired, but they need to really do more on all sounds coming from this unit. It has an envelope sound to most amp modals that is the signature of heavy processing. this too needs to go for the 2K or 1K it takes to buy one of these. I am for the Helix in principle. But there needs to be much more work done to make it competitive and palletable at that price. It needs to be stage ready for any genre.Most Helix owners don't want to hear that and have rather crude remarks to anyone providing positive feedback on what needs to be improved. Its competitor, HeadRush, is worse in this regard. when you hear pristine advertised sounds on a product and cant her the same live, it is like false advertisement in a sense and it is very disappointing when your excited about a product. This is the last I will comment on the product, but Line6, you could really be the top player with a bit more work.

The Helix is a completely different beast than just a pedalboard and amp. If you go into the Helix thinking it is going to work just like effect pedals and an amp, then Helix is not going to work for you. 

 

Helix is basically a recording studio in a box. In the Helix modeled world, you are setting up a mic'ed guitar amp in a studio. Most players never had experience with most of the real amps and effects that Helix is modeling, so they are very disappointed when the cannot "make them work" within the Helix. 

 

There are professional players in every genre that use Helix only for their rig, and with great success. There are some players that Helix won't be a fit for, but that is just like everything else. 

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This test was done in the store through several amps. As I have said previously, In my area most guitarists are finding the same thing. No separation between notes on chords , muddled or choppy overdrive/distortion and often sharp to the point of harshness. This is something I fell Line6 has to work on to resolve. It has a very presentable look to the hardware, even desired, but they need to really do more on all sounds coming from this unit. It has an envelope sound to most amp modals that is the signature of heavy processing. this too needs to go for the 2K or 1K it takes to buy one of these. I am for the Helix in principle. But there needs to be much more work done to make it competitive and palletable at that price. It needs to be stage ready for any genre.Most Helix owners don't want to hear that and have rather crude remarks to anyone providing positive feedback on what needs to be improved. Its competitor, HeadRush, is worse in this regard. when you hear pristine advertised sounds on a product and cant her the same live, it is like false advertisement in a sense and it is very disappointing when your excited about a product. This is the last I will comment on the product, but Line6, you could really be the top player with a bit more work.

if you are trying the presets into any amps yes it is probably going to sound bad indeed. Did you actually try it into a frfr speaker.?

I'm a player of 30 years and i have to say my experience with helix is that it is addictively good, once you've set it up for the system/environment in which you are using it

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This test was done in the store through several amps. As I have said previously, In my area most guitarists are finding the same thing. No separation between notes on chords , muddled or choppy overdrive/distortion and often sharp to the point of harshness. This is something I fell Line6 has to work on to resolve. It has a very presentable look to the hardware, even desired, but they need to really do more on all sounds coming from this unit. It has an envelope sound to most amp modals that is the signature of heavy processing. this too needs to go for the 2K or 1K it takes to buy one of these. I am for the Helix in principle. But there needs to be much more work done to make it competitive and palletable at that price. It needs to be stage ready for any genre.Most Helix owners don't want to hear that and have rather crude remarks to anyone providing positive feedback on what needs to be improved. Its competitor, HeadRush, is worse in this regard. when you hear pristine advertised sounds on a product and cant her the same live, it is like false advertisement in a sense and it is very disappointing when your excited about a product. This is the last I will comment on the product, but Line6, you could really be the top player with a bit more work.

 

Haha, I'm sure you have your finger on the pulse on what most guitarists in your area like and dislike...

 

The Helix is completely capable of producing great tones, but you have to be patient enough to set it up correctly and learn how to use it properly. It is, in a sense, simple to use, but it's also incredible deep, so simply plugging it into various amps at a store and quickly running through presets or whatever is not a fair test.

 

Here's the truth. I've owned all sorts of boutique OD and distortion pedals over the years, and when using the Helix as a dedicated FX unit in front of amp, I don't feel I'm missing out on anything. The Helix dirt is amazing, imo.

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I agree with the general sentiment throughout this thread.

Difficulties with articulation or clarity are likely a symptom of too much drive

or a higher gain model selected.

 

I'm typically about 70% lo gain and 30% higher gain in my gigging presets.

Whenever I feel I'm losing definition, the solution is to lower the driving gains a bit

and let the amp model do more of the tone shaping. Usually the guts in the models like

the Archon clean or Dr.Z as the channel volume or master volume comes up can really shine through.

 

FYI-I use the Helix with a Koch ATR-4501 stereo tube amp and a Wizard 10"/12" cab. I'm not using it with FRFR.

I do have patches with and w/out cabs based on how they sound. No IR's at this point except for recording.

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The Helix is a completely different beast than just a pedalboard and amp. If you go into the Helix thinking it is going to work just like effect pedals and an amp, then Helix is not going to work for you. 

 

Helix is basically a recording studio in a box. In the Helix modeled world, you are setting up a mic'ed guitar amp in a studio. 

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

Most players never had experience with most of the real amps and effects that Helix is modeling, so they are very disappointed when the cannot "make them work" within the Helix. 

 

Right.  I mean, who could afford to have all those amps in their house?

 

 

There are professional players in every genre that use Helix only for their rig, and with great success. There are some players that Helix won't be a fit for, but that is just like everything else. 

 

Indeed.  Those who are willing to put in the time to learn how to use it will be rewarded with tone that makes them happy.  Those who are frankly, too lazy to learn, will never reap the rewards.

 

 

I would be the first to say that the Helix is not without its foibles and that I vehemently disagree with some of the decisions Line 6 made regarding its interface conventions but dang folks, it's still way easier than any other modeler out there.  You can make it sound pretty much any way you like... which is something I never thought I'd say about a Line 6 product!   Put a little effort in. It's not that hard.

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My boss caught a show I did a couple of weeks ago. He's a vintage tube amp guy only. He approached me later and said, "Dude your tone was huge, it was mean and it cut through the mix. What amp were you using?" He couldn't believe it when I told him it was just the Helix straight to the board. That's what it's designed to do.

Was I happy with it right out of the box? Absolutely NOT! There was not one single preset that I liked. Sure, I went through my levels of frustration with it, albeit not like I did with the Boss GT-5, 6 & 8, or worse, the Pod XT Live, but it was mostly specific functionalities that I didn't like in the Helix... and I still don't but that's small potatoes. Getting the tones and the feel that I like was the easy part - dead easy. All the tone shaping tools are highly effective and get me where I need to go.

 

Bottom line; No Effort, No Joy. Full Stop.

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