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klangmaler

The slow, secret death of the six-string electric...

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It's no secret. At least not to me. Another part of this is all the baby boomers who picked up the guitar way back when and now entertain the idea of playing guitar for money in a band when they retire. Can you say guitar glut? Or, as was written in a Doonesbury cartoon 40 years ago. "Open up another can of guitar players please."

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The decline of guitar has been obvious since the late 90s. The neighborhood where I grew up had one band or another rehearsing at somebody's house most nights per week. I can't even recall the last time I heard a band playing in my neighborhood.

 

Video games, free music, removal of school music programs, 500 cable channels all contribute. 

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Maybe they're all on headsets with their amp simulators, electronic drums and keyboards.

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Maybe they're all on headsets with their amp simulators, electronic drums and keyboards.

 

Enjoying that irony on an amp modelling forum!

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I'm going to stop playing guitar because it's not cool anymore... right!

 

It's just that technology replacing human labor has moved to our realm of the world. Music made by machines is cost effective to The Industry; never mind that it sucks! The kids will buy whatever is shoved down their throats. 

 

Rock is becoming what jazz has been for decades: a once popular music that has been shunned from pop culture. And like jazz, it'll live on, but only in the shadows, away from the limelight.

 

I'm not going to let it get me down. I'm just going to keep doing what I've been doing until I die or am physically unable to play anymore... or playing musical instruments becomes illegal; whatever happens first.

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Everything is a circle, or a sine wave over time. Nothing lasts and everything lasts. I wouldn't worry.

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Everything is a circle, or a sine wave over time. Nothing lasts and everything lasts. I wouldn't worry.

+1  Yep.  Just like Johnny B. Goode will never be covered on stage after the year 2000. <smirk>

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Nothing in that article surprises me. Smartphones and social media have gifted the averaged person with the attention span of a gnat. Kids no longer make eye contact with anything but little 3"x 5" screens. Band practice? That would require going outside...plus it's hard to take selfies whilst playing an instrument.

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Band practice? That would require going outside...plus it's hard to take selfies whilst playing an instrument.

 

LOL, I couldn't have said it better. But then, that's what you are for.   :P  :P

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at least less competition from those little brats 😂.. have you seen what some of them can do.?? the ones that put aside their phone long enough to practice some, and then pick it up again to load their clip to youtube 😅

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...or playing musical instruments becomes illegal...

Don't give our benevolent despots any ideas. Just imagine how Judas Priest's asinine "subliminal messages" trial might end today, with a jury of "words hurt" millennials Tweeting themselves into a frenzy of phony outrage from the courtroom...

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Numbers are no doubt going down for guitar, up for rapping, have been for a long time. Culture changes over time.

 

But dang, there are some young-uns who can shred rings around me :)

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I'm a moderate 'working' musician which means my guitar and bass hobby gets me gear money but also a tax bill. I have an oldest daughter who grinds it out in musical theater gigs (singer/actor/dancer) and a youngest son who writes and performs hip hop stuff from his DAW,  a MPC and and IPad. We are all polar to each other on our primary genre love but we all love music. I can say they could care less about guitar. They love music and the eclecticism / dynamic range of all of it that they can get today. They aren't bound to this one instrumental convention. They know how to play OK but don't see the need to excel at it. BUT I've heard my oldest toil over a vocal refrain with nothing but a piano backing over and over and over and my youngest toil over snare attack in a 20 track mix. I have loved amp emulation tools from the beginning because of all the non-archival options they give you and my kids agreed that the next group of heroes have to think beyond the past. The Helix means nothing to my kids when they look at this list of 'classic amps'. But once my son saw the helix had a ring modulator and some other mod effects, he had an application with the box. He was also super engaged when I was grinding out some Royal Blood the other day all on my own with just a DAW drum track, the helix, a FRFR for guitar and my bass amp...Again, not a conventional "Mesa with a 4X12 cab" emulation that I may or may not really dig but that he could care less about...

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In all likelihood this is something cyclical and guitar will regain some if not all of it's stature at some point.  But that's going to be at the mercy of whether or not someone can come up with something innovative that will capture peoples attention.  Right now what guitar playing that's out there is simply a re-hash of what people have been doing for decades.  You've got to have people like Jimi Hendrix, Joe Walsh, Mark Knopfler, Andy Summers, or Brian May and many others that create completely original sounds and techniques that excite and inspire people to play the guitar.  I haven't seen much of that out there in a very long time.

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I like to look at the bright side of things. Out of the hundred+ million people who have come and gone over the past half century or so, how many actually made guitar music that requires skill, appreciation, and dare I say passion, for the guitar and the music it's capable of making, and left something behind that's timeless and transcends culture? I'd have to guess relatively few. Also, how many more people have an attempt at the guitar now than did 30 years ago? I'd guess more, mostly because it's more accessible today, and cheaper. So would the numbers balance out to a degree, and the perception of society losing interest in the guitar just that, a perception? Just some random thoughts.

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Interesting article, but I think it misses a lot of key points. A great example of missing the point is Gibson's attempt at automated tuners. Making the easy problem easier with a complex, expensive, battery powered and difficult to maintain solution isn't going to result in improved revenues. Not sure how the executives missed that.

 

But I think there's much more to this than guitar heros, better products and more marketing. I think the root is based in culture. When I was in college and BB King, Mike Bloomfield, Eric Clapton and Jimi Hendrix were just starting (late 60's), there was also a lot going on culturally - sexual revolution, Viet Nam, women's rights/liberation, civil rights, the draft lottery, computers, etc. There was a lot happening to write music about, and music brought people together to promote and adapt to some much needed social change. I'm not putting a value judgment on this, but the Trump era is certainly different. A lot happened to get us where we are.

 

Today's generation has to be a lot more focused on how to make a living and start a family - because its getting harder than it was. It now takes two incomes to achieve a standard of living that use to be possible with one. And we have the perfect storm of globalization (i.e., cheap labor), women in the workforce (i.e., doubling the workforce) and increased productivity through automation that has eliminated many good job opportunities. The middle class is diminishing as the class structure bifricates into a relatively small number of rich people and everyone else.  Again, I'm not putting a value judgment on that - it just is what it is. 

 

Also there's the Internet, with an overwhelming amount of content. Is there that much room for more? Watching YouTube videos of 7 year olds playing Pink Floyd can be a bit intimidating. The guitar is physically a difficult instrument to play well, especially cheap guitars setup poorly, something many beginners experience. Watching a few YouTube videos of BandGeek can easily convenience a beginner that this is unattainable and something only for the experts.

 

Then there's the evolution of Rock - it use to be simple, but it isn't anymore. Even home recordings are pretty complex mixes of content played by a very large number of talented people. The level of effort required to rise up above the noise floor is overwhelming. In order to be noticed, young people have to find something else, there's just no room for them in the guitar world anymore. 

 

And finally, its nearly impossible to make enough money as a guitarist to sustain yourself, let alone a family. I use to gig a lot during and right after college. Then I took many years off to raise a family and peruse a career in software development. I'm now nearing retirement age and have enough free time and money that I'm not back to gigging regularly again. The odd thing is, I don't make that much more per gig today than I did 40 years ago. While everything else when up, gigging income struggled to stay aligned. Clubs don't want to pay for bands. Private parties don't want to pay any attention to in-house musicians. This is a reflection of what society values, and is perhaps the result of an oversupply of increasingly complex content that is harder to connect with than the music of the past.

 

Anyway, some stuff to think about.

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it use to be simple, but it isn't anymore. Even home recordings are pretty complex mixes of content played by a very large number of talented people. The level of effort required to rise up above the noise floor is overwhelming. In order to be noticed, young people have to find something else, there's just no room for them in the guitar world anymore. 

 

 

This is exactly what my kids feel... My oldest knows she has to play her strengths and quirks to gig professionally and my youngest will lofi, as an example, to try to find a niche. 

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Then there's the evolution of Rock - it use to be simple, but it isn't anymore. Even home recordings are pretty complex mixes of content played by a very large number of talented people. The level of effort required to rise up above the noise floor is overwhelming. In order to be noticed, young people have to find something else, there's just no room for them in the guitar world anymore. 

 

And finally, its nearly impossible to make enough money as a guitarist to sustain yourself, let alone a family. I use to gig a lot during and right after college. Then I took many years off to raise a family and peruse a career in software development. I'm now nearing retirement age and have enough free time and money that I'm not back to gigging regularly again. The odd thing is, I don't make that much more per gig today than I did 40 years ago. While everything else when up, gigging income struggled to stay aligned. Clubs don't want to pay for bands. Private parties don't want to pay any attention to in-house musicians. This is a reflection of what society values, and is perhaps the result of an oversupply of increasingly complex content that is harder to connect with than the music of the past.

 

Anyway, some stuff to think about.

 

I'm not sure there's that much difference in economic terms of the 60s and 70s and now.  I'm 65 and it took two of us working to have the income and lifestyle we wanted.  The big difference is in the music industry itself.  You have to remember at that time rising above the noise floor meant getting signed by a record company.  Accomplishing that it took something pretty unique and special along with a considerable degree of talent and determination.  Then there came the internet and home recording meaning that anyone could pass something off as "special" when it really wasn't.  In those days we had the natural filter of the record companies which reduced the ambient noise and gave us the cream of the crop.  There's probably some cream out there somewhere, but finding it is going to be a massive challenge because the record companies also committed serious funds to marketing their artists.  But they were making some serious money of the sale of LPs and CDs...which is no longer the case.

 

There were certainly economic differences also.  Particularly when it came to music.  There's an entire generation of musicians now that never experienced making a full-time living as a musician.  For several years I toured and played 6 nights a week before I quit and got married and had kids.  It wasn't unusual at all to have 5 or 6 clubs even in a smaller town that had live music Monday through Saturday.  That's not the case anymore as there's too much competition for people's time and attention.  Cable TV with hundreds of channels, unlimited streaming of internet content, etc. have pretty much decimated the live performance environment.  Add to all of that the change in attitude within the musician culture that it's unacceptable to play cover tunes and you end up with what we have today.  A live performance environment where it's almost impossible to make enough from playing gigs to cover your expenses.  Even if you play a paid gig 2 or 3 times a month after you factor in equipment prices, band rehearsal time, load-in, setup, and tear-down time you're not even making minimum wage.

 

Given all of that, If I was a young person now I'm not sure I'd take up the guitar either.

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 It wasn't unusual at all to have 5 or 6 clubs even in a smaller town that had live music Monday through Saturday.  That's not the case anymore as there's too much competition for people's time and attention. 

 

 

The money issue is there for the bar owners as well. Things have gone up for them too. Not enough people unless a major act comes thru and most can't afford them. Add to this more people would rather stay home and watch Exodus on their PI, or call up videos on YouTube for that instant gratification, rather than go watch a band in a dive across town for entertainment. So, I just do the same thing and enjoy my music at home too.

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I know two world class musicians. One plays keyboard and is one of the finest I've ever seen. There isn't much he can't do. He's played with many known names. His focus is on jazz trio type stuff but can do it all. The other guy plays guitar, graduated from Berkley, played with Tower of Power and a little in the studio with the Doobie Brothers. HE'S a guitar player. I can sound like I know what I'm doing but I don't know half of what he does.

 

One works for a cable company and the other works for Kinko's.

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I know two world class musicians. One plays keyboard and is one of the finest I've ever seen. There isn't much he can't do. He's played with many known names. His focus is on jazz trio type stuff but can do it all. The other guy plays guitar, graduated from Berkley, played with Tower of Power and a little in the studio with the Doobie Brothers. HE'S a guitar player. I can sound like I know what I'm doing but I don't know half of what he does.

 

One works for a cable company and the other works for Kinko's.

Lol...yup. Sad, but that's how the cookie crumbles more often than not. There are only so many "rock star" positions available. And forget about your chops...most of us aren't pretty enough anyway. ;)

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I like to look at the bright side of things. Out of the hundred+ million people who have come and gone over the past half century or so, how many actually made guitar music that requires skill, appreciation, and dare I say passion, for the guitar and the music it's capable of making, and left something behind that's timeless and transcends culture? I'd have to guess relatively few. Also, how many more people have an attempt at the guitar now than did 30 years ago? I'd guess more, mostly because it's more accessible today, and cheaper. So would the numbers balance out to a degree, and the perception of society losing interest in the guitar just that, a perception? Just some random thoughts.

 

Tools for learning are out there and have never been more accessible. One trend that seems to have popped up is there P&W scene too. I can't comment on the foreign markets but neither did the article.

 

That whole article IMO is just another example of "the invisible hand" moving the guitar economy and much of the story can relate to other industries as well: autos, electronics, etc.  

 

I would guess that the mfgs are out producing the growth of the market. So one could perceive that as a decline but is it really?

 

Mark Twain:  â€œThe reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.â€

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I would guess that the mfgs are out producing the growth of the market. So one could perceive that as a decline but is it really?[/i][/b]

Good question. I also have to wonder if pricing is driving away some customers. So much of what's offered by Gibson and Fender is comically over-valued, imho... and I hesitate to even mention the pre-ruined "relic" instruments that they're hawking for thousands of dollars.

 

Plus, it's tough to make your brand attractive to a younger generation when your entire marketing strategy all along has been to relentlessly monetize the word "tradition"...that only works when you're pandering to an older demographic nostalgic for the "good old days". Kids read that as "we've been making the exact same thing for 70 years". For the most part it's true, and it doesn't resonate with them. My first guitar at 13 was an ultra-cheapo Strat clone...the body wasn't even solid wood, it was some kind of painted and lacquered press-board...you could see the individual layers inside the cavity, lol. But all of the players I idolized at the time were playing Ibanez, Jacksons, Charvels, and Kramers in every hideous, seizure-inducing neon color of the rainbow...what did I want with a Strat? Buddy Holly played a Strat, was already dead for decades, and my mother still listened to him on vinyl.;)

 

Gotta know your market...

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Interesting article, but I think it misses a lot of key points. A great example of missing the point is Gibson's attempt at automated tuners. Making the easy problem easier with a complex, expensive, battery powered and difficult to maintain solution isn't going to result in improved revenues. Not sure how the executives missed that.

 

But I think there's much more to this than guitar heros, better products and more marketing. I think the root is based in culture. When I was in college and BB King, Mike Bloomfield, Eric Clapton and Jimi Hendrix were just starting (late 60's), there was also a lot going on culturally - sexual revolution, Viet Nam, women's rights/liberation, civil rights, the draft lottery, computers, etc. There was a lot happening to write music about, and music brought people together to promote and adapt to some much needed social change. I'm not putting a value judgment on this, but the Trump era is certainly different. A lot happened to get us where we are.

 

Today's generation has to be a lot more focused on how to make a living and start a family - because its getting harder than it was. It now takes two incomes to achieve a standard of living that use to be possible with one. And we have the perfect storm of globalization (i.e., cheap labor), women in the workforce (i.e., doubling the workforce) and increased productivity through automation that has eliminated many good job opportunities. The middle class is diminishing as the class structure bifricates into a relatively small number of rich people and everyone else.  Again, I'm not putting a value judgment on that - it just is what it is. 

 

Also there's the Internet, with an overwhelming amount of content. Is there that much room for more? Watching YouTube videos of 7 year olds playing Pink Floyd can be a bit intimidating. The guitar is physically a difficult instrument to play well, especially cheap guitars setup poorly, something many beginners experience. Watching a few YouTube videos of BandGeek can easily convenience a beginner that this is unattainable and something only for the experts.

 

Then there's the evolution of Rock - it use to be simple, but it isn't anymore. Even home recordings are pretty complex mixes of content played by a very large number of talented people. The level of effort required to rise up above the noise floor is overwhelming. In order to be noticed, young people have to find something else, there's just no room for them in the guitar world anymore. 

 

And finally, its nearly impossible to make enough money as a guitarist to sustain yourself, let alone a family. I use to gig a lot during and right after college. Then I took many years off to raise a family and peruse a career in software development. I'm now nearing retirement age and have enough free time and money that I'm not back to gigging regularly again. The odd thing is, I don't make that much more per gig today than I did 40 years ago. While everything else when up, gigging income struggled to stay aligned. Clubs don't want to pay for bands. Private parties don't want to pay any attention to in-house musicians. This is a reflection of what society values, and is perhaps the result of an oversupply of increasingly complex content that is harder to connect with than the music of the past.

 

Anyway, some stuff to think about.

Cogent analysis - couldn't agree more, well said.

 

Then there came the internet and home recording meaning that anyone could pass something off as "special" when it really wasn't.

Hah - in the late 80's Keyboard mag did an interview with Stewart Copeland, drummer from The Police who by then was doing soundtrack work and such.  They asked him about the impact of sampling/sequencing and the like, he responded that the downside to it was that now anyone - without putting in the years of practice and experience - could put out a musical object that was plausible at first glance, but wouldn't hold up under scrutiny.  I've always liked his use of that word - plausible...

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Tools for learning are out there and have never been more accessible. One trend that seems to have popped up is there P&W scene too. I can't comment on the foreign markets but neither did the article.

 

That whole article IMO is just another example of "the invisible hand" moving the guitar economy and much of the story can relate to other industries as well: autos, electronics, etc.  

 

I would guess that the mfgs are out producing the growth of the market. So one could perceive that as a decline but is it really?

 

Mark Twain:  â€œThe reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.â€

 

Haha. I like that quote.

 

Like it or not - and since this is basically a guitar forum, most would probably favor like - humans have created an instrument that's more or less immortal. Its popularity may decline and rise over time, but will always be there for as long as the current evolutionary form of humanity, and if we make it further than that, even then, who knows.

 

Don't know how accurate this info is but a little history of the guitar: http://www.guyguitars.com/eng/handbook/BriefHistory.html, from which my point is that the guitar has been around a long time (from our perspective) in one form or another, and will be for a long time to come, despite what society has to say about it. However, I suppose societies and its cultures may act as a catalyst for the evolutionary direction of the guitar.

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Haha. I like that quote.

 

Like it or not - and since this is basically a guitar forum, most would probably favor like - humans have created an instrument that's more or less immortal. Its popularity may decline and rise over time, but will always be there for as long as the current evolutionary form of humanity, and if we make it further than that, even then, who knows.

 

Don't know how accurate this info is but a little history of the guitar: http://www.guyguitars.com/eng/handbook/BriefHistory.html, from which my point is that the guitar has been around a long time (from our perspective) in one form or another, and will be for a long time to come, despite what society has to say about it. However, I suppose societies and its cultures may act as a catalyst for the evolutionary direction of the guitar.

 

Good article, I could play slide on that bowl harp for sure. :)

 

I would hazard a guess that the music equipment business in general grew faster in the past 30 years than the prior 50 (?). Playing and equipment has, like you said, evolved and as long a someone can tap their toes or feels that urge, the instrument of the people will live on and change.

 

Just wait until Skynet gets the music bug. :D

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2eZtZHAkLo

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Good article, I could play slide on that bowl harp for sure. :)

 

I would hazard a guess that the music equipment business in general grew faster in the past 30 years than the prior 50 (?). Playing and equipment has, like you said, evolved and as long a someone can tap their toes or feels that urge, the instrument of the people will live on and change.

 

Just wait until Skynet gets the music bug. :D

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2eZtZHAkLo

 

Well that's something you don't see everyday. What's that little fucker beneath the hihat doing? :lol:

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Well that's something you don't see everyday. What's that little fucker beneath the hihat doing? :lol:

 

Lil bugger is rocking out and working the high hat pedal and the drummer is rocking it too. \m/

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There's action at both ends of the price spectrum. Insanely priced Gibson and "boutique" guitars, decent quality Fender and other brand instruments relatively cheap. Not to mention digital goodies for multiple orders of magnitude less than their vastly inferior counterparts from the 80s, if they existed at all.

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You've got to have people like Jimi Hendrix, Joe Walsh, Mark Knopfler, Andy Summers, or Brian May and many others that create completely original sounds and techniques that excite and inspire people to play the guitar.  I haven't seen much of that out there in a very long time.

 

There's no shortage of those; they're just not in the mainstream like the guys you mentioned. Allan Holdsworth (who passed away a couple of months ago), Steve Vai, Guthrie Govan, Scott Henderson, Ben Monder, Adrian Belew, Tommy Emmanuel... all guys who brought new exciting stuff to the table.

 

The problem is that modern mainstream pop just doesn't have much in the way of guitar... or instrumental solos of any kind.

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There's no shortage of those; they're just not in the mainstream like the guys you mentioned. Allan Holdsworth (who passed away a couple of months ago), Steve Vai, Guthrie Govan, Scott Henderson, Ben Monder, Adrian Belew, Tommy Emmanuel... all guys who brought new exciting stuff to the table.

 

The problem is that modern mainstream pop just doesn't have much in the way of guitar... or instrumental solos of any kind.

Mainstream pop never really had any guitars to speak of though...from Boy Bands, to Britney Spears, to any of today's interchangeable pop singers. None of that crap ever had much in the way of guitars. It's the rock genre (and it's myriad sub-genres) that have taken a beating. If kids aren't learning to play, then there's nobody to shove us old farts off the stage. ;)

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Like The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, you mean, those no-guitar pop bands?

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There's no shortage of those; they're just not in the mainstream like the guys you mentioned. Allan Holdsworth (who passed away a couple of months ago), Steve Vai, Guthrie Govan, Scott Henderson, Ben Monder, Adrian Belew, Tommy Emmanuel... all guys who brought new exciting stuff to the table.

 

The problem is that modern mainstream pop just doesn't have much in the way of guitar... or instrumental solos of any kind.

 

I think you're exactly right about them not being mainstream, and that's the issue.  They are all great technical guitarists, but not in the context of music that appeals to the masses.  Some of the problem lies in the fact there's not much variety in popular music, but also in the fact that talented guitarists such as you mentioned aren't being drawn to create music that appeals to anyone but a special market of people that appreciate what they do.  The guitarists I mentioned created great music that appealed across the board to the masses, but didn't necessarily focus solely on their guitar work.  Their guitar work infused the music with great style which helped differentiate their music from the pack.  But their music still appealed to the masses, not just guitarists.

 

There's always been a limited market for instrumental music.  Although a few folks like Chet Atkins were able to establish a sizeable niche for themselves by his stylistic instrumental interpretation of popular music, the greater market wants a song they can identify with and sing along to.  That's not where the action is in the current crop of guitarists, and thus it limits the reach of their music.  Queen or The Jimi Hendrix experience weren't exactly "mainstream" when they emerged onto the market, but the quality of the songwriting drew the mass market, and the guitar work inspired others to want to play guitar, or bass, or drums...or become singers even.

 

I once saw an interview with Joe Walsh and he mentioned that his greatest ability was that he was able to sing.  Without it he would have just been another guitar player.

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"For the times they are a-changin'." - who was it who wrote that? Not a guitar hero, but he did win a Nobel prize... Musical times are changing, we must either change with them or start creating interesting music instead.  We are being force fed uninteresting, unchallenging lip synced garbage made up entirely by computers and people out there are grabbing their giant oversized Korean made soup spoons and gobbling it up.  As for me, my kids are at the age where they can start learning piano.  They will get a solid foundation in that and then my hope is my daughter will start singing, my oldest boy will pick up guitar, my youngest boy will pick up drums and my littlest (only 4 months now) will bang on the bass.  They will grow up in a musical household with the classics from Beethoven to Bonamassa.  I bet ol' Ludwig is spinning in his grave as I type...

Great posts by the way... I am really enjoying reading this thread!

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Like The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, you mean, those no-guitar pop bands?

As far as I'm concerned, neither of those acts fall into the "pop" category. Now we can argue over what the definition of "pop" is if you want, but that seems rather pointless...so much so, I've already lost interest.

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"For the times they are a-changin'." - who was it who wrote that? Not a guitar hero, but he did win a Nobel prize... Musical times are changing, we must either change with them or start creating interesting music instead.  We are being force fed uninteresting, unchallenging lip synced garbage made up entirely by computers and people out there are grabbing their giant oversized Korean made soup spoons and gobbling it up.  As for me, my kids are at the age where they can start learning piano.  They will get a solid foundation in that and then my hope is my daughter will start singing, my oldest boy will pick up guitar, my youngest boy will pick up drums and my littlest (only 4 months now) will bang on the bass.  They will grow up in a musical household with the classics from Beethoven to Bonamassa.  I bet ol' Ludwig is spinning in his grave as I type...

Great posts by the way... I am really enjoying reading this thread!

 

Don't get discouraged if at some point they tell you they aren't interested in music.  Both of my sons were exposed to music and to me performing with bands from the time they were very young.  They liked it at first but at some point their interests diverged into THEIR interests not mine.  Neither took up music seriously, but my youngest did become a professional dancer...so at least the performing bug got to him....

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Don't get discouraged if at some point they tell you they aren't interested in music. Both of my sons were exposed to music and to me performing with bands from the time they were very young. They liked it at first but at some point their interests diverged into THEIR interests not mine. Neither took up music seriously, but my youngest did become a professional dancer...so at least the performing bug got to him....

Yup, everybody likes what they like. Best way to guarantee that a kid will have no interest in music (or anything else for that matter) is to force it on them....

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As far as I'm concerned, neither of those acts fall into the "pop" category. Now we can argue over what the definition of "pop" is if you want, but that seems rather pointless...so much so, I've already lost interest.

Hmmm, so the Beatles and the Stones aren't pop acts? Tell that to their screaming fans.

 

But like you pointed out, doesn't matter.

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