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Different amp models with same cabinet model live


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So I have been using mainly 2 amp models each with (usually) the original cabinet model that goes with it.  There are so many great sounding amps on the helix I have been wanting to use more. So,  I was thinking it might provide more consistency for the sound guy if all my patches used the same cab across these different amps.  After playing around with it for a while I'm not so sure I like the results tone wise.  I'm curious as to what others do.  Do you use the same cabs for all or most of your amp models or do you use just as many cab models as amp models?  If you do use lots of different cabs does it cause issues with you sounding really different from song to song?

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If you do use lots of different cabs does it cause issues with you sounding really different from song to song?

It's only an "issue" if you're looking for more consistency than that...there are numerous cover band guys who use a different patch for every tune, trying to emulate a specific guitar tone for each song. It just depends on what your goal is...

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I'm not gigging so I don't count, but I use many different amps, with whatever cabs or IRs, and I still feel like I make them all sound somewhat distressingly similar. I nearly always have 4 drive level as snapshots, and each level sounds quite a bit like that level in other amps.

 

There are differences of course, but still. Not sure what I think about this.

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I gig in an original band, and while I use the same amp/cab model for every song I have presets where the amp is varying A LOT.  I'll have different levels of gain, EQ, and effects.  I think using the same dual cab block on every preset helps the sound stay consistent.

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Your line of thinking is good.   I tend to use the same cab (4 x 12 25) as a basic cab for most patches,  I then add a second parallel cab to enhance certain tones.  ie I may put a bluebell cab when using an AC 30 just to give it some of that signature tone, but still keep the 4 x 12 for push...

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This is an issue that I dealt with way back when I had the Spider Valve amp. I was so excited to use a Fender clean and a Marshall crunch, but the sounds were so sonically different that it bothered me in a live situation. It also made volume leveling (already a tedious endeavor) that much harder. So, with the Helix, I use two irs (Ownhammer) pretty consistently with my 4 gigging patches. I still use several different amp models for some nice variety, but I like the consistency of the same ir/cab.

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So I have been using mainly 2 amp models each with (usually) the original cabinet model that goes with it.  There are so many great sounding amps on the helix I have been wanting to use more. So,  I was thinking it might provide more consistency for the sound guy if all my patches used the same cab across these different amps.  After playing around with it for a while I'm not so sure I like the results tone wise.  I'm curious as to what others do.  Do you use the same cabs for all or most of your amp models or do you use just as many cab models as amp models?  If you do use lots of different cabs does it cause issues with you sounding really different from song to song?

 

I can't say "lots" because I only made 8 user presets (which I'm always refining). That's all I need. I've never consciously tried to emulate any particular guitar players' tones. That said, I only use one amp model's stock "partner" cab (Dual Rectifier) in one of my presets.

 

I'm not gigging so I don't count, but I use many different amps, with whatever cabs or IRs, and I still feel like I make them all sound somewhat distressingly similar.

 

 

Ha! I think to a certain extent we all tweak towards a certain sound that is in our heads which we really love.

 

I don't know about "all;" many users here do try and emulate the guitar tones of the tunes they cover to the best of their abilities. But I do go for the particular sounds in my head and I've often been surprised at how I've been accidentally able to make different amp and/or effects models sound practically identical.

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Your line of thinking is good.   I tend to use the same cab (4 x 12 25) as a basic cab for most patches,  I then add a second parallel cab to enhance certain tones.  ie I may put a bluebell cab when using an AC 30 just to give it some of that signature tone, but still keep the 4 x 12 for push...

That's a great idea.  I'm going to try that.

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I'm probably at the far end of this spectrum in that I create a patch for every song our band does.  That being the case I use a fairly wide range of amps and cabinets, but not all of them.  I do have my preferences when it comes to certain types of sounds.  But I guess I approach each song with a "what works best with this song" mindset.

 

The reality is that many of the patches end up being somewhat similar.  I say "somewhat" because I may have used a similar amp and cab setup in a different song, but the EQ (amp EQ, EQ effects, and cabinet EQ), and effects will be slightly different based on the sound I think will best fit the feeling of the song.  The difference may be subtle sometimes, but it's more of a convenience in that by default the patch is customized to the song when it's selected.  For example, I have a "Santana" type sound on a few of the songs, but on one song it starts with a solo, so in that case the Tube Screamer is selected when I load the patch, rather than have a patch that I need to remember to turn on the Tube Screamer before we start.  The advantage to this customization is that I only have footswitches defined for the specifics of each song.  Therefore most songs only have one or two footswitches so there no pedalboard dancing.

 

Admittedly this probably isn't an approach that would work for a lot of bands.  But in our case the variety of song styles and genre are so broad that it's actually beneficial.

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DD, how do you organize your patches to be able to cal up the patch for each song efficiently in a live set? Do you build a bank (or part of one) for each set, with patches in setlist order?

 

I'd hate to have to remember where a tons of different patches were.

 

For the 45th reunion (!) of one of my high school bands, I made up a cheat sheet w the patches for each song, and in some cases stomps for certain sections. I was glad I had it, made me feel a bit more comfortable given that I hadn't played with anyone for decades, but I'd think a gigging pro might well have a better solution.

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DD, how do you organize your patches to be able to cal up the patch for each song efficiently in a live set? Do you build a bank (or part of one) for each set, with patches in setlist order?

 

I'd hate to have to remember where a tons of different patches were.

 

For the 45th reunion (!) of one of my high school bands, I made up a cheat sheet w the patches for each song, and in some cases stomps for certain sections. I was glad I had it, made me feel a bit more comfortable given that I hadn't played with anyone for decades, but I'd think a gigging pro might well have a better solution.

You tap Presets button in, and go to the setlist and there's a choice on one of the knobs under the screen to reorder the presets as you like.

I have a different preset for each song , mostly the same reverb, but a lot parameters will change by using the snapshots.

I for instance have a Timmah! But on 3 Gain on snapshot 1 , the ill go to snapshot 2 and press in the gain knob and turn which will make the number white, if you go back to snapshot 1 it will be 3 gain, go to 2 it will be something else.

 

I have snapshots setup for verse-Chorus-solo- then usually a louder version of one of them incase I need it but adding 5db or so on the output (again by pressing it in and turning so the other snapshots stay on 0db

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Playing live, I agree that using just the same IR (or just one stock cab or cab combo) is far better for volume and eq balance, and generally I cut more highs and lows (because of the volume turned up).

In a recording environment there is a lot more freedom, because the sound can be changed further till you reach the right target.

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DD, how do you organize your patches to be able to cal up the patch for each song efficiently in a live set? Do you build a bank (or part of one) for each set, with patches in setlist order?

 

I'd hate to have to remember where a tons of different patches were.

 

For the 45th reunion (!) of one of my high school bands, I made up a cheat sheet w the patches for each song, and in some cases stomps for certain sections. I was glad I had it, made me feel a bit more comfortable given that I hadn't played with anyone for decades, but I'd think a gigging pro might well have a better solution.

 

I would love to see the Helix add another layer and decouple the idea of a setlist from the actual physical locations where presets are stored. That way you just dial up your "setlist" before each gig and each entry would be in the setlist order and point to the proper location for the corresponding presets. You would not have to mess with the actual location of your presets. As it stands now you have to go in and move the presets around manually if you want them in setlist order for a performance. Not trying to shill for the Headrush which IMHO is a completely different beast from the Helix, and much less to my liking, but I do think they were on the right track with how they implemented a "Setlist" as a separate concept from bank and preset locations.

 

A good interface for this kind of meta-setlist creation on the Helix Editor would make quickly setting up for gigs a breeze. As it stands now I don't have the patience to setup a separate user list for each set for every gig in order. I end up jumping from preset to preset to get to the specific preset I need for a tune, some of them spaced widely apart. Hardly a tragedy but it does lead to some extra tap-dancing, unnecessary wear and tear on the footswitches, and takes a bit more time between some songs to locate the correct preset. As described above there is a better way to do this where setlists are simply pointers to preset locations.  No moving/copying of presets required and you don't have to remember where a preset is located.

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