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Praise and Worship Patches

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So, I play in a Praise and Worship band each Wednesday and Sunday.  I send directly to the board via mono XLR.  

 

Problem 1:  I use a MiM Strat with stock pickups fairly often.  The volume cuts in HALF when I use it.  The "gain" also cuts out a ton.  My clean sounds great, my dirty sounds clean and my big boisterous solo sounds like a hint of overdrive with some delay....   Never had this issue with my Mustang 4 and "real pedals."

 

Problem 2:  Guitar 2 has an Invader in the Bridge...which I love...But that thing is TOO HOT for the Helix, in my opinion.  Cleans are dirty, and dirty is just raw.

Yes, I roll back the volume, but never had to with my Mustang IV, OCD, MojoMojo Holy Grail and Flashback delay.

 

Problem 3:  Guitar 3 has active EMGs.  Sounds beautiful on everything I do, but It is a baritone that I have tuned up to D standard.  E standard is too tight and makes it feel like an acoustic.....Leads on an acoustic?  Tuning inaccuracies?  Damage to the guitar?  nah.....   and No I don't want to capo or play everything on this guitar "transposed" and stuff (I majored in music...it isn't hard.  I know what you're thinking)

 

So, since I'm a newbie at this thing (one week/performance),  What can I do to help level the dynamics (volumes) of each guitar?  Should I just put up the guitar with the Invader?  I'm clueless about EQ'ing these things btw.  I understand frequencies, but not how to get the sound I want.

 

Does anyone have some awesome patches.  I've already gotten the ones from the Worship Tutorials website.  Anyone have any Super clean..no grit, then Chunky, then solo/lead tones?  I plan on setting snapshot 4 as an ambient swell.   

 

Thanks so much for all you guys do!              

 

 

PS:  I've tried the Pad, and a few other little things.                    

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Have you tried adjusting your Input Block's  Guitar-In Z parameter.  It defaults to Auto which may be the problem in that it's trying to make adjustments to your pickups.  You might want to try taking it off of Auto and try the different specific values for the different guitars and see what works best.  If it's set to a specific value you might want to see if Auto helps mediate the differences.

 

I use multiple guitars as well (Les Paul Standard with Burstbucker Pro II, Gretsch Silver Falcon with High-Sensitive Filter'Tron, Strat Elite with Gen 4 Noiseless and S1 switching, and Tele Elite with the same pickups as the strat).  I leave my Guitar-In Z parameter on Auto and the Helix does a pretty good job of adjusting to the different inputs.  There are still differences in response from the different guitars as one would expect, but I just make adjustments within the patch itself to compensate for the response of the guitar.  All of my patches are guitar specific.  The same was true when I was using a Mustang IV, so whatever differences there were I compensated for within the patch.

 

As far as using outside patches that's part of the problem.  You typically have no idea what kind of setup the person that built the patch was using, so you'll have to make adjustments on those patches to accommodate the different guitars anyway.  That's why I never rely on patches someone else created.  I just build mine from scratch specific to the guitar that will be used and the song that's being played.  By doing so there's never any real difference in response and my volume can be normalized so all patches have the same volume output.  The most accurate way I've found to do this is I have a Yamaha DXR12 at home which I plug directly into from my 1/4" out L/Mono.  I also have a small 4 channel Alesis mixer which I plug the XLR L/Mono out into.  I set the input gain on the Alesis to mid-point or 12 o'clock and I monitor the meters to get each of my patches fairly close to the same output level.  I still occasionally have to make minor adjustments in the patch once I get to rehearsal with the band, but it's typically fairly small adjustments.

 

One thing for certain, I don't think you're ever going to get what you want out of a single patch used across all those different guitars because they are all so different.

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I agree with this. I play in a similar context and I tend to have a different patch for each song. If I change guitars I have a patch setup for that song with that guitar that I made specifically for it. Then, inside that patch I utilize snapshots for the different sections of the song.

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I also play P&W every week. Those three guitars/PUs you have are very different beasts. I would recommend different presets for your different guitars. If you are doing a preset per song, then be sure to set up that songs preset using the same guitar you plan on playing. A preset set up with your EMGs will be COMPLETELY different from your MIM strat. 

 

I play only two guitars at church: Deluxe HSS Strat with Seymour Duncan Vintage Hot Stack in neck, stock noisless N3 mid, Shawbucker bridge. Tele Select with Seymour Duncan Vintage Stack Neck/Bridge. I get PLENTY of drive when needed. 

 

I was playing a preset per song, but have transitioned to about 4-6 generic presets. I generally set them up where the amp is on the edge of breakup, then a drive footswitch to increase amp drive and decrease channel volume to get it gritty. I have a drive and distortion pedal in front of amp, modulation before cab, then all of my reverbs and delays after the cab so things are stereo. I'll create a slightly different variation of a preset if I know I will be playing on the bridge humbucker. So even between my two similar guitars, I sometimes have to create a different preset so it will be balanced. 

 

Sent me a PM here with your email address and I'll email you. I can send you a few of my presets to see if you like them. 

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Good suggestions, I also create a patch for each guitar.  The output of my guitars so different as in your case.  I modified a patch that I downloaded from CustomTone called Brewster's Toybox and added  a second cabinet and a switch to an "acoustic" type tone.  Works great for me, but I need one patch for each guitar.

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Although I stay clear of P&W... I still might be able to help.

 

For your active pu guitar try going in thru the Aux input.

 

Also experiment with volume blocks at the beginning of your signal chain.

 

Also try the guitar input pad if things are too hot.

 

Your Strat may have a short in it, and it may need more juice upfront. Try killing the Noise gate on the input block, use a gain block then put a noise gate block after the gain block. Your strat my be cutting in and out due to the noise gate.

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Use snapshots to set up different input block/gain settings for different guitars within a single preset.

 

Double check that the noise gate isn't killing the input/volume of your Strat. If it was setup for a really hot hum bucker, a single coil will have a difficult time exceeding the threshold.

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Thanks guys!   I really appreciate the help!  I have put a volume "pedal" on each setting.  I turned the Pad on and off...no real effect between the guitars. (odd?)

 

The strat doesn't have a short...I used it at home...on the Mustang 4 and the "same" volume comes out.  It has to be with the unit.  I can add a gain block...haven't tried it yet!

 

 

 

I'll definitely start making different presets for different guitars...Makes a ton of sense anyways.  

 

PS:  The music we play is usually very clean, somber and uplifting....  Not this "new age/electronic" stuff.  Chris Tomlin stuff, "He Knows My Name," Jason Crabb's "If I Shout," "Let it Rain."  

 

But every now and then, I get to rip a solo.  A lot of "clean....light dirt on the chorus....clean...dirt again...dirtier...dirty + Chunking into a massive, delayed solo....Distortion to the Tri-pu-let. endddd"

 

 

If I shared a song, is there someone good enough that could re-create a tone in Helix?

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Does anyone have some awesome patches.

Done you mean "Holier than Thou" patches?  ;)

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Done you mean "Holier than Thou" patches?  ;)

More of a, "Thank you God for the talent you have given me!" sound.

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I use one patch in church. There is big difference between guitars but we do three or four songs per service. Using patches lime those i mentioned above can easily handle a Sunday. If absolutely have to switch guitars during a service then you can adjust with gain blocks or eqs. 

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If I shared a song, is there someone good enough that could re-create a tone in Helix?

Let me know a song, I may already have one built. I have quite a few in one of my setlists. 

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Also, search Alex.Guitars on YouTube. He has a few patches on his channel. He takes song requests too. I think he makes a very simple patch sound great.

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Well, I look forward for someone sharing their setlist for free for the glory of God ! I'm new to Helix but will definitely share when I'm ready with them.However it is okay to sell them too .

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2 hours ago, jesuscares said:

Well, I look forward for someone sharing their setlist for free for the glory of God ! I'm new to Helix but will definitely share when I'm ready with them.However it is okay to sell them too .

 

I have no problem sharing my setlist, but given that we're a biker church I'm not sure they'd be of much use in a conventional service.  LOL

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I agree with everyone above but feel compelled to share anyway!

I tend to create/rework my patches all the time, always tweaking and trying out different things. That being said, for the most part I will get a general template down of delays/reverbs/boost and then try out different amps/cabs. Once I have an amp I like I'll focus on one guitar and then dial in overdrives/gain tones. Then switch guitars and dial in the amp, add OD, rinse and repeat. I like to use IR output levels and the overall output gain as ways to balance patches so that different guitars have a similar volume/level that I send to the house. It's a lot of trial and error but the more you do it the quicker and easier it will get.

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17 minutes ago, ajcrowder said:

I agree with everyone above but feel compelled to share anyway!

I tend to create/rework my patches all the time, always tweaking adn tryign out different things. That being said, for the most part I will get a general template down of delays/reverbs/boost and then try out different amps/cabs. Once I have an amp I like I'll focus on one guitar and then dial in overdrives/gain tones. Then switch guitars and dial in the amp, add OD, rinse and repeat. I like to use IR output levels and the overall output gain as ways to balance patches so that different guitars have a similar volume/level that I send to the house. It's a lot of trial and error but the more you do it the quicker and easier it will get.

This ^

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And taking the five Helix presets and the two IRs, he looked up to heaven and said a blessing and duplicated the presets and gave them to the disciples to set before the P&W guitarists. And he divided the two IRs among them all. For the glory of God!

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On 5/29/2018 at 10:08 AM, soundog said:

And taking the five Helix presets and the two IRs, he looked up to heaven and said a blessing and duplicated the presets and gave them to the disciples to set before the P&W guitarists. And he divided the two IRs among them all. For the glory of God!

That's pretty funny right there. 

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On 5/29/2018 at 7:53 AM, ajcrowder said:

I agree with everyone above but feel compelled to share anyway!

I tend to create/rework my patches all the time, always tweaking adn tryign out different things. That being said, for the most part I will get a general template down of delays/reverbs/boost and then try out different amps/cabs. Once I have an amp I like I'll focus on one guitar and then dial in overdrives/gain tones. Then switch guitars and dial in the amp, add OD, rinse and repeat. I like to use IR output levels and the overall output gain as ways to balance patches so that different guitars have a similar volume/level that I send to the house. It's a lot of trial and error but the more you do it the quicker and easier it will get.

Me too. I have one or two generic templates that I use and tweak them per song as needed. The tweaks are mostly switching around the stomp locations to put the ones I will be using on the front row, then small parameter tweaks as needed. 

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On 5/29/2018 at 5:25 AM, DunedinDragon said:

 

I have no problem sharing my setlist, but given that we're a biker church I'm not sure they'd be of much use in a conventional service.  LOL

I gig a lot at Biker churches, prisons  etc & play a wide variety of christian music including ethnic stuff.So I can sure put it to good use & the Bikers would love it! Do send it my way if you can.Thanks.  My email triumphinchrist2000@gmail.com

Blessings!

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On 5/29/2018 at 5:25 AM, DunedinDragon said:

 

I have no problem sharing my setlist, but given that we're a biker church I'm not sure they'd be of much use in a conventional service.  LOL

Just a reminder in case you have forgotten to share :) triumphinchrist2000@gmail.com

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Heh-heh...I glanced at the list of threads and saw this one. I did a double take because at first I thought your username was "Jesus Scares" lol

Then I looked again and realized it's "Jesus Cares"

For a second there I thought you might have had the coolest goth-emo style username of all time. lol

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On 5/29/2018 at 5:25 AM, DunedinDragon said:

 

I have no problem sharing my setlist, but given that we're a biker church I'm not sure they'd be of much use in a conventional service.  LOL

Hey was wondering if you would be willing to send me your presets? We aren't a conventional church either and am always looking for some new/great tones. I just got my Helix last week and am in the process of learning everything it has to offer as I'm coming from the X3 POD series. If so you can email the to: theguitargrandpa@gmail.com

Thanks,

Chris

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