Helix with Crate Powerblock

[schapman1022]

Hello all... hoping someone here with a Crate Powerblock could be of assistance.  I usually run my Helix through an Alto TS212 but for an upcoming gig I pulled out my 4x12 (v30's) and my Powerblock.  I tried setting up some patches running into the return and running into the input with all knobs set to noon on the Powerblock.  To me it seems more alive through the input but sounds a bit weird, probably because I'm running through the input... then when I run through the return it is very dark/dull sounding.  I have read multiple arguments online in regards to the powerblock of cab emulation in the input, return, etc, etc.  I can't seem to find or understand where the cab emulation really is or if it is even there at all in the Powerblock.  I'm just trying to power my cab and not do anything fancy...let the Helix do the work, ya know?  Any thoughts or tips?

 

Not running any cabs or IRs in the Helix and the output in the preferences is set to Line.

[astroturf]

I had my powerblock running into a vintage marshal cab using only pre-amps and it sounded great. I switched to running FRFR (Atomic for gigs, Friedmann in house, and an L3T I plan to sell). However, I can say, I have been thinking of going back to the cab / powerblock combination and dispensing with the FRFR solutions. They just never quite sound as good though you do get quantity...

[schapman1022]

I had my powerblock running into a vintage marshal cab using only pre-amps and it sounded great. I switched to running FRFR (Atomic for gigs, Friedmann in house, and an L3T I plan to sell). However, I can say, I have been thinking of going back to the cab / powerblock combination and dispensing with the FRFR solutions. They just never quite sound as good though you do get quantity...

Did you run through the input or fx return?

[astroturf]

I ran it from the Helix 1/4 out to the rear left/mono input. I didn't use stereo.

[twystedriffs]

I ran my x3live into the front of dual powerblocs for years. The little extra gain and eq sounded amazing. Tried the same when I went to helix. Into the front sounded awful, into the left inputs in the back did the trick. I found in some posts and a schematic if you used 1/4 to rca and used the rca inputs you will bypass the internal cab simulation of the powerbloc. Wasnt that big a difference to me. I finally bought two alto ts210s and havent looked back. But some things sounded amazing through the crates and not so much frfr. And vise versa. Had to remake all my patches, but the ease of gigging without 2 4x12s and the extra depth of cans and IRs seems to be worth it for me. I am curious to plug up the big rig again now that ive been frfr only for about 4 months.. think its just what you get used too, had great results both ways

[roscoe5]

The CD input is the is the only clean input on the CPB. There is indeed a speaker sim in the path after the line in. I ran Helix with a CPB and Mesa 212 for a long while with stereo cable out of the Helix phones output to a Y cable adapter to the RCA,s/CD input. It's a great setup.

[mileskb]

I used my powerblock for a little bit too.  The dullness you are getting is likely because you're signal chain is set up for the FRFR solution of the Alto's.   Just removing the cabs isn't the solution.  You need to tweak the presets for the powerblock/4x12 option.  Global EQ "may" be the answer, but not likely.

[schapman1022]

I ran my x3live into the front of dual powerblocs for years. The little extra gain and eq sounded amazing. Tried the same when I went to helix. Into the front sounded awful, into the left inputs in the back did the trick. I found in some posts and a schematic if you used 1/4 to rca and used the rca inputs you will bypass the internal cab simulation of the powerbloc. Wasnt that big a difference to me. I finally bought two alto ts210s and havent looked back. But some things sounded amazing through the crates and not so much frfr. And vise versa. Had to remake all my patches, but the ease of gigging without 2 4x12s and the extra depth of cans and IRs seems to be worth it for me. I am curious to plug up the big rig again now that ive been frfr only for about 4 months.. think its just what you get used too, had great results both ways

Thanks for the info. I had a feeling there was cab emulation, i might have to try those cd inputs to at least hear the difference myself

[schapman1022]

The CD input is the is the only clean input on the CPB. There is indeed a speaker sim in the path after the line in. I ran Helix with a CPB and Mesa 212 for a long while with stereo cable out of the Helix phones output to a Y cable adapter to the RCA,s/CD input. It's a great setup.

Thank you for the info, I will definitely be trying this CD input method

[gunpointmetal]

Nonsense, there is no cab modeling on the FX loop inputs. As long as your cab modeling is OFF on the Helix (and you build copies of your FRFR patches that are tweaked for guitar speakers) you can just plug straight into the FX return and then use the Helix master volume for your output level. If you're trying to use the Helix as on stage amplification and still go direct to the FOH, you're best bet is going to be moving your cabs/IRs to the very end of the signal chain and using one of the FX sends just before the cab/IR to send the PB. Crate stated a long time ago that the original signal flow schematic was wrong and the only cab-modeled output was the XLR and then only if you went through the FRONT. I don't any benefit from trying to incorporate the PB preamp into the signal chain. 

[schapman1022]

Nonsense, there is no cab modeling on the FX loop inputs. As long as your cab modeling is OFF on the Helix (and you build copies of your FRFR patches that are tweaked for guitar speakers) you can just plug straight into the FX return and then use the Helix master volume for your output level. If you're trying to use the Helix as on stage amplification and still go direct to the FOH, you're best bet is going to be moving your cabs/IRs to the very end of the signal chain and using one of the FX sends just before the cab/IR to send the PB. Crate stated a long time ago that the original signal flow schematic was wrong and the only cab-modeled output was the XLR and then only if you went through the FRONT. I don't any benefit from trying to incorporate the PB preamp into the signal chain.

Thanks, all cab modeling is and was off for these patches. I built them all from scratch so they were not the FRFR patches. Interesting to know Crate corrected the information.

[twystedriffs]

I saw the original diagram, never knew they corrected it. My dual CPB rig with the X3 kicked major lollipop. I made a patch with the single harmonizer on helix that was insane. Sounded like a one man Iron Maiden. Unfortunately runni g direct made that patch sound very cheesy. Hardest one I have had to replicate to frfr.