Acoustic and Electric Guitar Connection for Live

[scrinson]

Hi,

 

I've had the helix for a couple of days and am in the process of setting up my presets. I intend to connect my electric guitar to guitar in with output as XLR left and acoustic to return 4 and output XLR right.

 

I have my electric presets set to pan hard left and acoustic hard right.

 

I'm setting up (at home but at gig volume) using one of the band's FOH speakers, a Yamaha DXR 12 running from XLR out; apart from a slight dip in volume I can't detect any change between panning XLR output hard over or keeping central.

 

I have yet to try with the band and was wondering if the massive experience on the forum would suggest an alternative method or am I going along the right lines. I've had a good old search and have either missed or not been able to find any posts which point me in the right direction.

 

Just for info - I'd prefer two separate outputs going from helix into the mixer as I think it will present less problems when at venues where the sound isn't in our control plus when we do our own sound I think we need the flexibility to manage the FOH mix with guitar and acoustic on separate channels.

 

I prefer two inputs as I don't really want an A/B box (less clutter) and would like to keep guitar disconnect / reconnect to a minimum.

 

I know, I want my cake etc 

 

Thanks for any advice you are able to offer

 

Gary

[DunedinDragon]

I'm not sure you'll be doing yourself any favors using hard left and right for electric and acoustic.  It's rare that you can encounter live venues that are very favorable to stereo separation.  Typically it works against you because most of the people in the audience aren't positioned correctly to hear the stereo separation evenly.  Typically most venues aren't built particularly well for stereo either with all the reflections and dead spots.  It's a lot of trouble for not much payoff in my opinion.

 

I don't incorporate acoustic into every patch, but there are occasions when one of the other band members will play acoustic and I'll mix it together with my electric in the Helix which allows me to apply effects and such to the acoustic.  In those cases I use to two signal chains.  The top signal chain input block is set to 'Guitar' and uses the guitar input.  The bottom input block is set to 'Aux' and I plug the acoustic into the Aux input.  I then just mix to taste between the two signals and send them both out to the board via the L/Mono XLR out.  Very simple and easy and works beautifully.  I've even done the same with the Microphone input using it in the second signal chain on a Frank Zappa song that requires a phaser effect on the voice.  That works great also.

[scrinson]

Thanks Dunedin,

 

I thought that by panning the signal hard over, the left and right the XLR outputs would each give a mono output i.e. hard left output to left XLR and vice versa, wouldn't the output only be stereo if both XLR outs were centred and feeding two separate outputs , I wouldn't be expecting both guitars to be played at the same time as you do with your band.

 

Please feel free to shout if I'm missing the point

[DunedinDragon]

Thanks Dunedin,

 

I thought that by panning the signal hard over, the left and right the XLR outputs would each give a mono output i.e. hard left output to left XLR and vice versa, wouldn't the output only be stereo if both XLR outs were centred and feeding two separate outputs , I wouldn't be expecting both guitars to be played at the same time as you do with your band.

 

Please feel free to shout if I'm missing the point

 

Actually I'm not sure that's completely true as it depends on what you've done in your signal chain as to whether the signal will be stereo or not.  Normally the L/Mono XLR will sum any stereo signal to mono (such as when using a stereo effect), but only if the Right XLR is not being used.  If the Right XLR is in use, the signal in the left won't be summed to mono so it would be missing part of the stereo signal.

 

I think I get what you're trying to accomplish in that you want the acoustic and the electric to be on individual channels on the board, and it might work as long as you're careful about creating a mono signal chain.  You could always get each signal chain summed to mono using a final gain block I suppose on each of the signal chains.  At some point it seems to introduce more complexity and more potential points of failure than is necessary when a $30 direct box would suffice.

[ricstudioc]

 You could always get each signal chain summed to mono using a final gain block I suppose on each of the signal chains.

That's what I was thinking, also.  Probably the only way to get discrete A and B outputs from the XLR's.

[phil_m]

In my opinion, you'd be better off using one of the XLRs for the electric and another output, such as one of the 1/4" outs or sends, for the acoustic (along with a direct box). There's nothing wrong, per se, with how you have it, I just think it's easier to set up patches without having to worry about the panning. This is actually what I do. I use one of the Sends for my acoustic, and the XLR out for my electric, and then I keep the 1/4" outs as a feed for my monitor.

[scrinson]

Brilliant, thanks everyone for your suggestions and patience I think using a send output via DI to the mixer would work perfectly for the acoustic - I hadn't considered that.

 

 

The other slight issue I have is using the tuner as it doesn't automatically pick up the returns - i'm currently going in on return 4 with my acoustic

 

Dunedindragon, you mentioned that you use the aux input for your acoustic do you boost the output on the helix?

[PeterHamm]

In my opinion, you'd be better off using one of the XLRs for the electric and another output, such as one of the 1/4" outs or sends, for the acoustic (along with a direct box). There's nothing wrong, per se, with how you have it, I just think it's easier to set up patches without having to worry about the panning. This is actually what I do. I use one of the Sends for my acoustic, and the XLR out for my electric, and then I keep the 1/4" outs as a feed for my monitor.

Do this!

[DunedinDragon]

 

Dunedindragon, you mentioned that you use the aux input for your acoustic do you boost the output on the helix?

 

I use a gain block in the signal chain to bring up the volume.

[scrinson]

Thanks very much DunedinDragon, I'll give that a go.