How do you handle switching between FRFR/amp/headphones?

[Thurston9]

I'm sure many or most out there just use one, but for those of you that use two or three depending on the situation, how do you set up your Helix?

 

My presets are a mix of amp, headphone and FRFR and its a pain in the butt to set up the (modeled) amp and eq settings and output when the preset you want to use doesn't match the output device.

 

I need to spend a little time setting things up, and I'll probably end up with 3 copies of each preset.  What do you all do?

[cruisinon2]

I need to spend a little time setting things up, and I'll probably end up with 3 copies of each preset. What do you all do?

Yup... and sometimes more than 3, as a patch that's dialed in with a Strat won't necessarily work with a humbucker-equipped guitar.

[erniedenov]

I have one setlist for headphones (in-ears, actually) and another one for FRFR. I initially made all of my presets for headphone and when I got my FRFR I saved them on another setlist and re-EQed them and made other modifications. I don't make new ones that way anymore, but I always keep them in the setlist they're intended for.

[Thurston9]

What if you change one of the presets?  Do you change the other 2?

[erniedenov]

What if you change one of the presets?  Do you change the other 2?

 

No. I've come to think of the headphone setlist and the FRFR setlist as separate entities and if I'm building a preset from scratch, it's for the application at hand; I don't bother trying to make the same block choices work for the other setlist. But that's just me; I basically just use 8 presets in each setlist and what works for headphones won't necessarily work for FRFR. Just as an example, I tend to use stock Helix cabs with headphones but third party IRs often seem to work better for me with FRFR. And I'll often use different amp/cab models in the different setlists for the same type of sound I'm going for. That probably doesn't make a lot of sense, but to me, headphones or in-ears are a different beast than FRFR.

[phil_m]

I try to avoid using headphones as much as possible. I really just hate the experience of playing electric guitar and using them. When I do use them, it would pretty much only be for monitoring for the purpose of hearing myself, so I guess having them be a completely accurate representation of the tone doesn't really matter.

[jbuhajla]

I do initial preset creation on FRFR to better match the system I am playing through every week. I play direct to FOH, with IEMs for the mix. I monitor through IEMs on stage, but I DO NOT make tone adjustments to make them sound better in the IEMs, because I already know my tones are good in the PA. I practice at home mostly through headphones using the same presets I have already created. I DO NOT make tone adjustments while on the headphones because I already know it sounds good in the PA. 

 

I play the same one venue, so I do have an advantage there. Even if I didn't, I would probably use the same approach, but use the global EQ for venue adjustments so you don't have to touch the presets. 

[DunedinDragon]

My question is, if you're changing the presets for what you are using to listen to them, what's happening to the signal that's going to the PA?  I would think the only thing that matters is what the audience is hearing.  That's the important thing.  That's why I dial in my preset using a system that will match what comes out of the PA, and I use the same system on stage.  If, for some reason I was forced to use headsets that's not the audience's fault so why should they suffer?

[erniedenov]

My question is, if you're changing the presets for what you are using to listen to them, what's happening to the signal that's going to the PA?  I would think the only thing that matters is what the audience is hearing.  That's the important thing.  That's why I dial in my preset using a system that will match what comes out of the PA, and I use the same system on stage.  If, for some reason I was forced to use headsets that's not the audience's fault so why should they suffer?

 

I think you and I had this discussion before. You get brownie points for your altruism, but personally, I can't even play at my par if my sound isn't inspiring me. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference if you don't improvise, but I do. In one band I play with, I go direct to the FOH with my Helix and we're all using in-ears. My setlist that I made for FRFR sounds like crap through in-ears so I decided to go with the setlist I made for them using the headphone jack. I've gotten applause for my solos at wedding gigs on a few occasions (which is a rarity), so I'm guessing the audience was not suffering. I guess it comes down to personal choice. I figure the other musicians in the band are listening to me more intently than the guests at a wedding are and they're hearing what I'm hearing through the in-ears. I've never heard what's coming out of the FOH; for all I know, the soundman is EQing my guitar. My point is that a crowd like that aren't the kind of tone connoisseurs that we are; they're more likely to respond to playing quality than the tambre of our instruments. Different strokes!  

[DunedinDragon]

I think you and I had this discussion before. You get brownie points for your altruism, but personally, I can't even play at my par if my sound isn't inspiring me. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference if you don't improvise, but I do. In one band I play with, I go direct to the FOH with my Helix and we're all using in-ears. My setlist that I made for FRFR sounds like crap through in-ears so I decided to go with the setlist I made for them using the headphone jack. I've gotten applause for my solos at wedding gigs on a few occasions (which is a rarity), so I'm guessing the audience was not suffering. I guess it comes down to personal choice. I figure the other musicians in the band are listening to me more intently than the guests at a wedding are and they're hearing what I'm hearing through the in-ears. I've never heard what's coming out of the FOH; for all I know, the soundman is EQing my guitar. My point is that a crowd like that aren't the kind of tone connoisseurs that we are; they're more likely to respond to playing quality than the tambre of our instruments. Different strokes!  

 

We may have had this discussion before, I'm not sure.  I was just curious if you tried to maintain any semblance of consistency as far as front of house.  To each their own.  I suspect the difference in how we might approach things probably has more to do with differences in music background and training more than anything else.  I don't mind tolerating slight differences in what I'm hearing on stage as long at the overall sound of the band and the mix are consistent every time we play.  But that just goes back to how I was brought up in the business.

[spikey]

I try to avoid using headphones as much as possible.

 

 

Best answer I've read so far... Not that I do not use them cause I do, mainly for recording vocals in a DAW setting next to the monitors.

[hideout]

Funny, my headphones always get me in the ballpark. At the gig it just takes a small tweak here and there to get the tones where I want them to be.

I use KRK KM-8400 Phones and JBL EON 10s for my PA.

[cruisinon2]

I can't even play at my par if my sound isn't inspiring me.

Ditto. I wish this weren't the case, but my performance is closely tied to the sound I have...I'm crippled with someone else's gear. I consider it a failing, honestly...but without my rig, I sound horrendous, at least that's the way it seems to me. It's a mental thing mostly I suspect, but it is what it is.

 

 

so I'm guessing the audience was not suffering....My point is that a crowd like that aren't the kind of tone connoisseurs that we are; they're more likely to respond to playing quality than the tambre of our instruments. Different strokes!

Spot-on. It might sound callous, but the audience is never suffering. They're not listening the way we do. They hear a song. The whole song...they're not dissecting individual parts. Frankly, it's beyond the average listener to do so. "Tone" is a lost concept for 99.97% of the audience. They might clap for any impressive solo, but they're not applauding your tone. Most listeners couldn't distinguish a Strat from a Les Paul with a gun to their head. With the exception of the leather jacket-clad guitar player standing in the back with his arms folded, critiquing every note...nobody else knows the difference.

[zooey]

When I first got my Helix I didn't have an FRFR rig, it was all headphones on the couch. Took me a fair while to get very comfortable.

 

When I got a pair of Alesis monitors, I pretty much had to start over, all my patches sounded like crap crap crap.

 

I'm quite happy now, redid everything. That's ongoing actually, has been all my life, with whatever rig I'm on.

 

But the bottom line for me is that headphones, at least the AKG 240s I have, which in general are pretty well respected, have very little to do with FRFRs, at least the relatively cheap but relatively decent ones I have. YMMV and all that.

[erniedenov]

It might sound callous, but the audience is never suffering. They're not listening the way we do. They hear a song. The whole song...they're not dissecting individual parts. Frankly, it's beyond the average listener to do so. "Tone" is a lost concept for 99.97% of the audience. They might clap for any impressive solo, but they're not applauding your tone.

 

Well I'm glad you get it! Particularly if you're playing at a wedding or corporate party, the guests just want to dance to songs they like and as long as the band can do justice to those songs, they're happy!

 

The leader of the wedding band I play with decided to do away with amplifiers on stage a few years ago; it made him feel like he had more control over the volume. Prior to that, I was using a Pod HD500 with a Line 6 DT-25 amp. The two sounded good together, but once I had to ditch the amp and go direct with the Pod HD, I really was not digging it; just couldn't get tones that I was happy with. Buying the Helix changed all of that drastically, thank God!

 

I still play in clubs for fun, doing the kind of music that I want to play (mostly jazz/rock fusion or straight ahead jazz; the closest to pop is a Steely Dan cover band I play with sometimes). I always play Helix through my FRFR speaker in those situations (I take the speaker's direct out into the FOH), which I greatly prefer. Usually, half of the crowd are fellow musicians and at the risk of sounding like a jerk, I DO care about what they're hearing. Luckily, with that setup they're hearing what I'm hearing; it's a win/win situation! 

[aleclee]

Funny, my headphones always get me in the ballpark. At the gig it just takes a small tweak here and there to get the tones where I want them to be.

I use KRK KM-8400 Phones and JBL EON 10s for my PA.

 

 

Same here.  Never had an issue going between Beyer DT-880 / Equator Q8 / QSC K8 / Atomic CLR / Whatever PA the venue has.

[brue58ski]

 My point is that a crowd like that aren't the kind of tone connoisseurs that we are; they're more likely to respond to playing quality than the tambre of our instruments. Different strokes!  

 

I absolutely agree with this but I do think the audience notices if the sound they're expecting for a certain cover song isn't at least similar. As an example, hearing the Iron Man intro played with a Stevie Ray Vaughn, Love Struck Baby tone will be noticed by people who know the song. But that's whats so great about the Helix. You can quickly get kind of close to a songs tone and that's close enough for your average audience. No need to spend hours on a tone.

[DunedinDragon]

I absolutely agree with this but I do think the audience notices if the sound they're expecting for a certain cover song isn't at least similar. As an example, hearing the Iron Man intro played with a Stevie Ray Vaughn, Love Struck Baby tone will be noticed by people who know the song. But that's whats so great about the Helix. You can quickly get kind of close to a songs tone and that's close enough for your average audience. No need to spend hours on a tone.

 

It's probably not so critical in this person's situation.  As he said they play wedding events and such, so for most of those people it will be the first and the last time they'll see the band so they won't be comparing them to what they've heard before.  It's a bit more important if you have a following that always shows up at your events as they have an expectation about what you're supposed to sound like.  Particularly if they own CD's of your band and such.  That's when consistency gets to be pretty important.