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skyfirez1

Helix LT / Native cost sucks

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I have an LT why do I have to pay over 300 dollars for Native. Am I the only who's calling BS on this ? Hell I'd do 199 but 299 is stupid. Wtf

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Simple... you didn't spend as much as those who bought the LT's big brother. This way they've got everybody spending comparable amounts of money. No doubt this will influence some who are still on the fence about Helix vs. LT, if they also intend to purchase Native. Some will opt to pop for the full unit because the total cost is now much closer.

 

LT + Native @ $299 = $1300

Full Helix + Native @ $99 = $1600

 

Marketing folks generally aren't stupid. $300 is a much lower psychological hurdle than $500. It's a smart move...for them. But I suspect it will aggravate most

LT owners. 😕

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We announced Helix Native in January. The $300 discount for Helix and Helix Rack owners was announced at the same time.

Three months later, we announced Helix LT. One of its big "What's the difference between this and Helix Floor?" bullet points was the shallower discount on Helix Native; that is, there's a measurable advantage in buying Helix Floor or Helix Rack if you plan on buying Helix Native. Or put another way, with Helix or Helix Rack/Control, you get:

  • scribble strips
  • more ins and outs
  • an extruded aluminum chassis and cast aluminum side panels and treadle
  • a dedicated headphone volume knob
  • a $300 discount on Helix Native when it's out

None of this was obfuscated in the slightest.

 

Also note that plug-in pricing tiers are built into the Helix family business model. Applying the same $300 discount to Helix LT would increase its per-unit cost as a function of blended margin, and therefore, likely mean you would've spent more than $999 on it. So technically, all the other people willing to buy Helix Native got you a discount on your LT, months before it could even be downloaded. Yay for fuzzy math!

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Not interested. Spent 3 hours now with Native and it sounds terrible. Yay for fuzzy math

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I have an LT why do I have to pay over 300 dollars for Native. Am I the only who's calling BS on this ?

Yes, I do believe so.

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No he's not the only one calling BS on this. Let's do the math a different way, from that of a Helix LT owner

 

A Helix only costs 40% more than a Helix LT

 

Helix owners got approximately a 75% discount  on Helix Native - $99

Helix LT owners shouldn't only get a %25 discount on Helix Native - $299

 

We paid almost a $1000 for a piece of their high-end gear and only 40% less than their higher end gear costs

 

$199 would've been a much fairer price for Helix LT owners - even $249 would've somewhat palatable

 

$299 is absurd and pretty much a punch in the gut to Helix LT owners.

 

Seriously??

 

The majority of Helix hardware owners purchased their gear prior to any announcement of of a plug-in.

On the contrary, IIRC Helix Native and it's pricing was announced before the official release of Helix LT?

 

Did you purchase an LT assuming you would get Native @ $99? Didn't think so, but I could be wrong.

 

Boo MF'ing who...

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As DI said though, none of this is news. The whole pricing structure was clearly stated long ago. IMO LT doesn't make that much sense if you're interested in Native. If you don't like the decisions you made, maybe you're still within your return window and can get a do-over.

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$299 is absurd and pretty much a punch in the gut to Helix LT owners.

 

"Punch in the gut" makes it sound like you were surprised, or someone purposely misled you in some way.

 

Regardless, applying MAP/discount ratios here misses the point. The deeper discount is a value-added feature of Helix Native and Helix Rack. It's like the scribble strips, the two extra effects loops, the aluminum chassis, the dedicated headphone knob, and the 10 simultaneous stomp mode switches... When debating whether to snag Helix or Helix LT, one examines all the differences (including the deeper discount) and simply decides whether the $500 US cost difference is worth it.

 

I'm not sure how we can make pricing tiers more obvious in the future. Someone on Facebook might write "Oh, LT is the same as Helix with no screens above the switches and a few less ins and outs." It's literally impossible to expound on every single conversation, but anecdotally, I've not seen a single instance where someone claimed Helix Native would be $99 for LT users. We've attempted to make this very clear from the beginning.

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Yeah, I clearly missed the communication - this is obvious. However, the punch in the gut statement stands. I would've thought at least a more reasonable discount would've been offered to LT owners %75 vs %25 discount is a huge disparity. I've already contacted the store I bought the LT from to see if I can switch it out for a Helix.

 

I'm hoping the discount will still be offered by the time I get the trade done

 

I don't think we have plans to discontinue the discount tiers anytime soon, if ever.

 

If you have suggestions on how to make these things more obvious in the future, I'm all ears. Unfortunately, we can't rely on guitar store employees, because... y'know. This is coming from an ex-guitar store employee.  :)

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Just have 1 price for all helix owners. Is that so much to ask for ? Stop with the snarky comments, you're just making your organization look bad. No one cares about all the added features, only 1 thing speaks in this world - price. Price is everything.

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I've had my Lt maybe 3 weeks I never knew this forum existed. So yes I missed everything ever posted about pricing on this tiny little island. I, like most consumers spent my time drooling on music store websites and YouTube vids.

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Price is everything. 

 

 

And here I thought "tone" was everything... 

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Are you saying you missed the mega-thread on The Gear Page? Because it was all over there too. Line 6 have been completely open about this from the moment Native and LT were announced respectively. And you did some research before you spent the money on LT - right? This forum is not exactly hiding - try any search in google about anything technical about Helix and this forum comes out on top. 

I personally might have complained that I bought a Helix Floor 2 months before LT was announced... for less money, or about how Yamaha Europe then dropped the prices a few months later, but actually I have nothing to complain about. I bought something that I thought was good value for me at the time (and spent more than a year justifying) and any subsequent pricing changes is just what happens. It doesn't invalidate my original decision. £120 is still more than double what I have paid for any single item of music software (UK VAT at 20% on top) but once I get back into the UK from this work trip I am going to make sure it works on my PC with the free trial and probably cough up the extra cash 

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Don't make me call glen fricker@ SMG

I don't imagine he even knows you, but if so he'd just say to quit bitching like a little girl and pay for it... ; )

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I would love to try it, but it wont accept 5 new password trys 2 new accounts, keep getting error user name or password incorrect over and over again WTF? reset, reboot, reload but wont log into server with proper credentials.......dam 

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I would love to try it, but it wont accept 5 new password trys 2 new accounts, keep getting error user name or password incorrect over and over again WTF? reset, reboot, reload but wont log into server with proper credentials.......dam

This is why I don't rush to download stuff the millisecond it's released. Same with firmware updates. Problems are inevitable. Let everybody else wade through that cesspool for you. Then in a week or two when it works, give it a try...

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If someone doesn't like the $299 price on something, they have the freedom to NOT purchase it. It's quite a beautiful thing really. I have the Helix floor and am CHOOSING not to purchase the $99 Native at this time because I really don't need it at this time. 

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I guess it all depends on your return of investment: how long will it take for the $299 to pay off? What's the benefit in terms of time saved and workflow you'll gain from LT+Native integration? Will it save you more than $299 in the long run?

 

For Helix Rack/Floor the price of $99 is a no brainer, it extends the integration of hardware in a studio and live context in a way currently unique on the market, actually making things more efficient and with 100% predictable results, thus a lot cheaper.

 

If you chose to go LT I guess it was because you couldn't justify the ROI for the bigger hardware so it's very likely that the same happens for Native.

In this case think of it as buying some luxury good that won't retain its value over time, not necessary, only possible if your budget allows it - no one complains for the price of luxury goods, just don't buy it.

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Something is wrong with the forum. 
This thread isn't making any sense to me reading it. 

Not the subject matter...but a technical issue with the forum or something. 

I can see Digital Igloo quoting "PlickBadger" but I can't see any posts in the thread from him. And I see people making replies that are obviously replying to comments...but I don't see what they are replying to!

 

How can that be? Is the forum messed up? Or am I not part of some super secret group of posters whose posts I can't see?

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Something is wrong with the forum.

This thread isn't making any sense to me reading it.

 

Not the subject matter...but a technical issue with the forum or something.

 

I can see Digital Igloo quoting "PlickBadger" but I can't see any posts in the thread from him. And I see people making replies that are obviously replying to comments...but I don't see what they are replying to!

 

How can that be? Is the forum messed up? Or am I not part of some super secret group of posters whose posts I can't see?

Simple...the OP deleted his posts. Now it reads like one of those stupid "chose your own adventure" books with a few chapters ripped out. ;)

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Nope-still there. I can see them.

My bad, he wasn't the OP. But "PlickBadger"'s post have clearly been deleted. By whom shall forever remain a mystery...

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My bad, he wasn't the OP. But "PlickBadger"'s post have clearly been deleted. By whom shall forever remain a mystery...

I removed my posts, because I felt like they were contributing to unneeded conflict and controversy. The bottom line is this.

 

I planned on purchasing a Helix and the native and I did not read the pricing model beforehand. I should've purchased a helix and not an LT. I had sticker shock on the $299 price, because I glazed over the discount model and just assumed it was across the board. It's my bad, my mistake. I apologize for stirring up sh!t that was unnecessary.

 

I'm trying to swap out my LT with a Helix, getting the $99 Native and moving on down the road. Apologies to everyone here and Line 6. Again, this was my bad.... I did not read the pricing and discount model prior to my purchase and overreacted to cost for LT users.

 

Sorry for removing my posts and making it worse, I just thought it was the right thing to do to remove my nonsense posts.

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I'm trying to swap out my LT with a Helix, getting the $99 Native and moving on down the road. Apologies to everyone here and Line 6. Again, this was my bad.... I did not read the pricing and discount model prior to my purchase and overreacted to cost for LT users.

 

All good. We're discussing ways to make it more obvious to all users.

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I removed my posts,

Thanks for clearing that up brother. I thought I was losing my mind. lol

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Helix native is something I will use in the future but at the moment I'm still loving my 6 month old Helix floor, Is there any time limit on the $99 price?

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I have an LT why do I have to pay over 300 dollars for Native. Am I the only who's calling BS on this ? Hell I'd do 199 but 299 is stupid. Wtf

You do not "have to pay over 300 dollars for Native."

 

LT owners may buy Helix Native for $299 (which is not "over 300 dollars").

 

Helix Floor and Rack owners may buy Helix Native for $99.

 

If you feel Helix Native may be useful for you, try the Free 15 Day Trial. Then consider returning your LT for a Helix Floor.

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Helix native is something I will use in the future but at the moment I'm still loving my 6 month old Helix floor, Is there any time limit on the $99 price?

 

We reserve the right to discontinue promotions at any time, but right now there's no plan to discontinue the Helix Native discounts.

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We reserve the right to discontinue promotions at any time, but right now there's no plan to discontinue the Helix Native discounts.

Any chance of a heads-up if that's about the happen DI? I do plan on getting it, but I don't have an immediate need, or an overabundance of uncommitted cash at the moment, so I'm holding off. If the choice at some point became now or $399, I'd jump on it almost certainly.

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I've got my Helix cross shipping and my LT will be heading back. I'll have the Helix on Monday, registered and be able to get the $99 Native deal. Again, I sincerely apologize for creating  any unnecessary drama - it's really not my MO, I can assure you. I'll be damned sure to read all the details thoroughly next time.

 

I'm looking forward to trying to contribute to this board in a more positive manner in the near future.

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I find it bizarre that people try to justify paying more and complain because others want to pay less. I see too the obsequious attitudes and a-lickiing that goes on. Note Line 6 and Yamaha are companies. They exist to make profit and will charge what they think they can get away with. They do not do fair price...

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They exist to make profit and will charge what they think they can get away with. They do not do fair price...

Yup...just like every other company on earth. And when they cease to be profitable, they go away...then none of us would have these toys to play with anymore.

 

Now where's my free stuff?!?!?!?! ;)

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Yup...just like every other company on earth. And when they cease to be profitable, they go away...then none of us would have these toys to play with anymore.

 

Precisely!

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I guess I am just a little amazed at some of the logic here.  And I don't mean to insult anybody but some of this confuses me.  For anyone that chose to buy an LT over a standard Helix I am sure that there were reasons such as I don't need the scribble strips or other bells and whistles, which is perfectly fine.  I personally would not have even thought about Native as part of this, or if the price of Native was part of the thought process I would have certainly done the research on what information was out there.

 

I bought my Helix as soon as it was released and have had it coming up on two years, at that time Native was probably only on Line 6's mind as it certainly wasn't announced at that time nor was the LT announced.  When it did get announced with the pricing I was "great I have a Helix so it will only cost me $99"

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Any chance of a heads-up if that's about the happen DI? I do plan on getting it, but I don't have an immediate need, or an overabundance of uncommitted cash at the moment, so I'm holding off. If the choice at some point became now or $399, I'd jump on it almost certainly.

 

Right now, I can't even comprehend Line 6 removing the promotion. I can't guarantee we'll never ever remove it—only because promising something in writing is never a good idea—but as of now, there have been literally zero mentions of it not being permanent.

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That what I figured, but thanks for the reassurance anyway :)

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