Strymon midi issues w/ Helix floor???

[rumnarv]

I just got a Helix and I'm liking it ok by it's self, but I'm running into some midi issues that are getting a little frustrating.  I want to set it up to control my Strymon Mobius, TimeLine, and BigSky with midi without having to dedicate a loop to each.  Here's where I'm at and maybe someone can suggest a way I can get this to work.  I did have the Helix set up using the 4 cable method with my amp in loop 1.  The 3 strymon pedals above are in loop 2 all assigned to their own midi channels.  I also have a poly tune set up in loop 3 to be always on (the Helix tuner isn't that great).  I have a Riverside OD set up in Loop 4 with the favorite function being controlled using the CV connector on Helix.  With it set up like this I can get everything to work in stomp box mode without any problems excluding the lights on the Helix sometimes getting out of sync with the pedal.  For example pedal is bypassed but the Helix light for that channel is illuminated (no big deal, I can live with this minor issue).  I used midi CC# 80,81, and 82 to toggle the Strymon pedals A and B (and C on BigSky) buttons.

 

The problems began when I started to set up Snapshots.  I tried using the Instant commands to bring up a patch on a desired pedal using the midi program function 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.  That method would bring up patches ok but when I toggled through the Snapshots some of the presets would be on when I didn't want them to be and would then toggle off when I wanted them to be on etc...  After a little more research I found out that I needed a bypass command to apply before the new preset could be commanded on.  After research I found out that Helix can't change CC# with snapshots, only the values within a CC.  After finding this out I decided to go a different route.

 

Now, Try 2... I've got the Helix completely reset to factory defaults.  I cleared all blocks on the first preset and started fresh.  I wired all strymon pedals in their own FX Loop so I can toggle off by bypassing the the block (I hate to loose the 4 cable method here, but I guess I can live with that for now).  Ive set them up in stomp box mode and got everything working just as I had last time.  Now on the the Snapshots I run into problems again.  I would save each snapshot by going into stomp box mode and toggle on what I wanted then save each accordingly. Doing that I got the Mobius and Timeline to work, BUT the BigSky wants to be a BigPain in the ....... !!  This pedal will not respond correctly no matter what channel its on, what program# I choose, even the CC80, 81, and 82 for the bank buttons.  For example, If I toggle on a preset in bank A it will toggle that on and off when commanded to toggle Bank C.  If I press the Bank A button on the Bigsky to switch it back to that bank it will work for a couple of snapshot changes and then back to the wrong preset.  Sometimes it works fine going from Snaphot 1 to 2 to 3, but when I go from 3, to 2, to 1 it gets all messed up again.  It's completely erratic behavior and I can't duplicate the issue to track down a solution.  I've checked the commands on each snapshot and they are correct and set up the same as the TimeLine and Mobius.  I've gone into global settings on the BigSky and Helix and tried different combinations as well as a factory reset on the BigSky, same thing.

 

Any ideas???

 

I'm really hoping to get this resolved because I really want to keep the Helix as part of my rig.  If not I'll ditch it for a Mastermind PCB.  Sorry for the novel!

[phil_m]

First thing to do is go to Global Settings > MIDI/Tempo, and on page 2 of that menu chagnge the MIDI PC Send setting to "Off" if you haven't... (although, it sounds like this isn't necessarily causing you problems).

 

I guess I'm a little unclear why you're wanting to go the CC route. Changing presets via PCs on the Strymon pedals will be so much simpler. I use both the BigSky and the Mobius with my Helix, each in its own loop, and I change presets per snapshot all the time, and it works perfect. I do have a few presets where I control specific parameters on the Mobius with a CC assigned to one of the Helix's expression pedals. But trying to control the Strymon's footswitch via CC seems kind of clunky.

[rumnarv]

Thanks for the reply!  I checked and the PC Send settings are off.  I'm using a combination of PC commands and the CCs.  The CCs are used while in stomp box mode to toggle the last used bank just in case I want to switch off Snapshot mode.  The CCs for the A,B,C switches on Timeline, Bigsky, and mobius will allow it to go into bypass mode where PCs won't.  Also, one of the CCs I was attempting to use in Snapshot mode is 102, value 0 for bypass and 127 for active.  It will toggle on and off on the last used preset and I was using it to bypass when it wasn't needed on that snapshot.

 

I've been messing with this since I got home from work and I think I figured out my issue.  It appears the CC#s that I assigned to the BigSky A,B,and C switches in stomp box mode were superseding what I was using in command center for the snapshot.  Somehow I save a snapshot with one of those toggled on.  I went through my list of snapshots and toggled off all assigned foot switches in stomp box mode and saved each snapshot.  After that everything seems to function correctly now.

 

I set this workaround using all of the Instant Commands and it appears to be working as needed.  I set the first 3 Instant Commands to CC# 102, one for each pedal (channels 1, 2, and 3).  I then set up the remaining 3 Instant Commands for the PC command to recall the preset needed.  If the pedal needs to be active the value of the CC102 is 127.  If the pedal needs to be in bypass I set the value to 0.  The PC command will recall the preset needed and the pedal will be on or off based on the CC#.  It stinks to have to use all 6 instant commands this way but It works for me and I get to keep the 4 cable method and 1 free FX loop.  

 

Now if we can get an Instant Command to send a CC# and PC at the same time!!!!

[Digital_Igloo]

I love this thread so much.  :wub:

Glad to hear you got it working, rumnarv!

 

This doesn't have much to do with your particular situation, but here's a bit more insight on Instant commands:

• They're sent in order, so if all 6 Instant commands are PC messages on the same channel, Instant 6 will win out (provided the receiving device can deal with 6 near-simultaneous PC messages; sometimes MIDI is finicky)
• Currently, identical values are ignored when jumping from snapshot to snapshot. For example, if Snapshot 1 has a PC message of 52, and Snapshots 2 and 3 have PC messages of 67, switching between Snapshots 2 and 3 will never send the PC—it'll only send when switching between Snapshots 1 and 2 (or 1 and 3). We're planning on adding an additional Global Setting that forces Helix to send duplicate identical commands [EDIT: Released with 2.30]

[rumnarv]

Thanks for the info on the logic behind the instant commands, that's very helpful information!!!  So far so good on my end, I got a couple of patches set up and its working the way I want it to.  That Global setting would be very helpful as well.  I can see where sending duplicate commands would be helpful in some situations!!

[spikey]

I kinda did the same thing, Rumnarv. I first set Helix to midi Channel # 5. Then set the Mobius to channel #1, TimeLine to #2, and BigSky to #3. But I used the "top" Instant commands for "Bank/Prog" and underneath them (in line ) I used the footswitches for the CC "on/off" Toggle. Then I named them using the Custom Label area and set their LED color as I like. I currently have the BigSky set to an "Instant" using just spring Reverb for all patches so far. In this way I would love to be able to use more than just 1 setting with Mobius ( or the rest of them) per patch, and I found I could switch between 2 different patches in the Mobius using the footswitches set to a different midi #, but I then could not figure out how to turn them on and off individually. So I went back to the above for now.  :)  Fun stuff for sure! And I can tell anyone thinking of doing this, the Strymon pedals just sound AWESOME with Helix!

[spikey]

We're planning on adding an additional Global Setting that forces Helix to send duplicate identical commands

 

 

Timeframe on this or is it already done and I just dunno yet?  ;)

[phil_m]

Timeframe on this or is it already done and I just dunno yet?  ;)

 

Added in 2.30...

 

• Helix FW: Global Settings > MIDI/Tempo > Duplicate PC Send—Before 2.30, Helix would purposely omit MIDI PC messages with an identical value as the previous PC message. You may now choose to send duplicate PC messages

[spikey]

Thanks, Phil / Line 6!!!

[JensHagelskjaer]

Im also using Mobius and BigSky with Helix but don't control by midi. I dont know anything about midi. Any good advices how to get started (videos, where to read)? Thanks