Fizziness in Helix

[EugenCaraiani]

So I have line 6 Helix for about a month, but the fizz was in there all the time. I didn't really care much beacuse I was mainly using me metal presets, in which there is much gain and I could not hear the fizz clearly. But when today I wanted to solve this problem. When I create new presets and put a clean amp there I can hear fizz in all the amps and the only way to make it less audible is to lower the master knob which I did, but with amps where the master is already low I can't do anything. I have read some topics on forum like this but other people say they here it much in gainy presets and I hear the fizz mostly in clean or a little distorted like the Essex 30(or something like that, I don't really remember). I have tried turning the pad on in settings, it helps, but I can still hear this fizz. The biggest problem is that I can't make a good clean preset with this issue, I can only make presets with much gain lile Panama and Angl. Please help me, I would appreciate it very

much.

[ADBrown]

Are you using an sort of EQ? People commonly use the global EQ/lo/hi cut, the lo/hi cut in the cab block, or an EQ block to tame any excess high end. 

[zooey]

High (and low) cuts are pretty normal. You can do that in the cab or IR block, or with the low/hi cut EQ or a parametric. The cuts in the EQs are steeper, which sometimes feels better to me, sometimes not.

 

I'd suggest NOT using the global EQ got this, for two reasons. First, the main purpose of it is to compensate for different rooms, do you may want to reserve it for that purpose. Second, if you ever play really different instruments, like electric vs acoustic, you'll want that kind of overall tone shaping to be per preset, not global, because it's really only for electric guitar.

[DunedinDragon]

In addition to using the hi/lo cut parameters on the cabinets/IRs, you might want to also experiment with the mic and mic placement.  What most people are referring to as "fizz" is actually the same sound you would get out of a traditional amp cabinet if it's mic'd near the cap of the speaker.  You just didn't hear it as much because you were hearing the cabinet, not the mic'd version of the cabinet.  Very often you can affect that sound by increasing the distance on the cabinet mic and turning up early reflections.  If you're using an IR you can mediate it by using a version of the IR with the mic placed further out in the cone area.  I would do those things first before applying hi/lo cuts as it very often can affect how much (if any) you need to cut.

 

As Zooey pointed out, stay away from using global high and low cuts.  Not all high and low cuts are appropriate for every amp, cab/IR, mic, and mic placement.  You're better off setting those things up first then applying high and low cuts by ear specific to the setup you're using.

[bjnette]

I heard that some ear treatments for ringing in the ear;tinnitus. Works well by getting the person to differentiate and really train the ear to listen to different frequencies then the constant ringing. What is found is that eventually the ring frequencies fall to the background and aren't so prominent.

Sort of train the ear to listen to different frequencies. We have all heard, 'to use your own ears' and tone quality is a subjective thing; etc.

There is more to phycho-acoustics. Ear fatigue is very real, listening at loud volumes or to mixes you mixed and then intend to master is advisable with fresh ears.

It might be that after a good restful sleep the fizziness is less prominent.

 

With fresh ears, start listening for the bass end of your tone and tweak it to perfection.

What are you monitoring your sound on?

When fatigue hits after an hour or so of precision listening or longer under quiet listening trying chaning your monitors if you have another pair or

headphones for a while. Quality headphones are fine for reverb tails and stereo imaging.

 

If you listen loud try a bit quieter.

Using a reference track(s). It helps to know what your going for and what is succesful.

While your ears are fresh record a track in your DAW and listen and compare the reference track.

 

That is fine for recordings but if your problem is for live use. Try different monitors if possible

and reference tracks that are recorded live with little post production.

 

Fizz; My experience with fizz is the distorted resonance from a mic capsule.

I am not saying that Line 6 mics aren't resonating their modeling capsules when the mic is right up

against the grill like for live micing. (it is not uncommon for the mic to pick up grillcloth vibrations either)

So the first fix is to try the mic at some distance from the cab, another is a different mic.

 

If you are not using cabs then one will need to record a track in your DAW and with some careful

narrow band boosting locate the area and any harmonics intervals.Then cut. Now the other issue; you might suck all the

life from tone so you will need to balance reduced fizz without sucking the life out of it. Another

trick is to apply a broad Q slight boost over the area of cuts to bring back the life.

 

Now in Helix reproduce the frequency cuts in the DAW with a Helix EQ or two.

 

It should be noted that fizz exists in micing amps. It doesnt just exist in the digital domain.

 

Don't forget to return with fresh ears and re tweak as needed rather quickly not adinfinitum.

 

Concentrate on other aspects of your tone, mainly your playing.

 

Good luck

[jbuhajla]

When I create new presets and put a clean amp there I can hear fizz in all the amps and the only way to make it less audible is to lower the master knob which I did, but with amps where the master is already low I can't do anything. 

Are you sure that what you are hearing is not noise from your guitar pickups? Amp model "fizz" is different than your pickups amplifying ambient 60 cycle noise.

[themetallikid]

When I fear fizz, especially on a clean amp in a post, I immediately think something is clipping or causing that type of sound.  I don't think I've ever heard 'fizz' on a clean amp.  I could be wrong.

 

Not assuming you don't know how to set your input levels and such, but I know clean amps can get ice picky in the highs, but I wouldn't ever call it fizz.  I usually associate that with high gain and just the normal harmonic frequencies that are reproduced at high gain levels.  Those can be tamed, but if its on a clean amp.  I would post your settings for the clean amp so we can see if it can be duplicated. 

[PeterHamm]

Real amps have fizz, too. It's in there.

I would say that there are a few things you want to try that might seem counter intuitive. Bias and Bias X (especially the former) need to be messed with, too.

I find that my favorite mikes (almost always the ribbons) tend to mask the fizz really well, but... again... it's part of the real amp.

 

the high-end stuff is often solved with eq cuts on the cab.

[specracer986]

I would ask what is your setup that you're listening through? I know when I have my Helix connected to my computer with USB, then out to my frfr, the noise floor is much higher than if the computer/usb is out of the signal chain. I have a ground problem I haven't been able to eliminate. You may have something similar.

[bretneal]

I was having the same problem..  I traced to the Vintage Digital Delay.  I switched it to Simple Delay and it was gone.  I hope this helps.

[willjrock]

I was having the same problem..  I traced to the Vintage Digital Delay.  I switched it to Simple Delay and it was gone.  I hope this helps.

Well with VDDelay, its either the S Rate or the B depth controls, that are doing this intentionally. If you get one of them set a bit too low (cant remem which one), you WILL get some static. I would call this more of a feature or better yet intended behavior and may be somewhat dependant on VDD's headroom setting. Im thinking this is something very different than whats being discussed here.

[bigolsparky]

Change mics on your cab.  Some are "fizzier" than others.

[klangmaler]

Jason Sadites talks about dialing in live tones (with focus on the 'harshness' problem):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN3BldVCAR8

[HonestOpinion]

Jason Sadites talks about dialing in live tones (with focus on the 'harshness' problem):

 

Did not understand at first how he was using two volume blocks in this video to "boost the highs and cut the lows" as he puts it. Assuming he accomplished that with a crossover split type which he doesn't mention in this video.  Does he mention this in a previous video?

[steelstringer]

Does anyone understand how he is using two volume blocks in this video to "boost the highs and cut the lows" as he puts it. I don't understand how split volume blocks accomplishes that without for example using a crossover split type which he doesn't mention. I wonder if that is what he is using? Does he mention this in a previous video?

Yep. I just found this YouTube channel today, and he is using a crossover split - not an a/b or y split.

[HonestOpinion]

Yep. I just found this YouTube channel today, and he is using a crossover split - not an a/b or y split.

 

That's what I figured, a nifty trick.

[steelstringer]

That's what I figured, a nifty trick.

I like this approach because I am not making hi and low cuts on my cab/ir and I can leave my amp settings in more familiar/realistic places (in the real world, I would never have the bass on 1 or 2). The parametric eq and compression at the end is also key to his setup. This guy has put some serious time into his Helix!

[HonestOpinion]

I like this approach because I am not making hi and low cuts on my cab/ir and I can leave my amp settings in more familiar/realistic places (in the real world, I would never have the bass on 1 or 2). The parametric eq and compression at the end is also key to his setup. This guy has put some serious time into his Helix!

 

I agree the compressor at the end of the chain is key in this setup. Btw, I think the '3-band Comp' can be used for even more subtle compression than the 'LA Studio Comp' at the end of the signal chain as it is able to compress only the frequency band that is exceeding the threshold without impacting the other 2 bands. It is however definitely trickier to set up correctly. The LA Comp can be much simpler to use but there are real sonic benefits to be derived from using a multi-band compressor at the end of your signal chain.

[zooey]

Agree on the usefulness of the multi-band. It can adjust overall tonal balance, a lot like the crossover split, but with three bands instead of two, and with the added option to limit individual bands if you want.

[jkuche]

On 2/18/2018 at 2:35 PM, steelstringer said:

Yep. I just found this YouTube channel today, and he is using a crossover split - not an a/b or y split.

Would the TILT EQ be a replacement for the 2 volume block crossover? 

[AlexKenivel]

On 8/11/2019 at 7:24 AM, jkuche said:

Would the TILT EQ be a replacement for the 2 volume block crossover? 

Jason's method is why the high and low shelf eq was added. Try that.

[Heavyville]

It would help to see how you are routing your signal path., take a screen shot if you can.   That can create an issue as well, Not just the amps "fizziness". 

[neil-johnson]

On 2/13/2018 at 9:00 PM, willjrock said:

Well with VDDelay, its either the S Rate or the B depth controls, that are doing this intentionally. If you get one of them set a bit too low (cant remem which one), you WILL get some static. I would call this more of a feature or better yet intended behavior and may be somewhat dependant on VDD's headroom setting. Im thinking this is something very different than whats being discussed here.

Yep - I had exactly same annoying fizziness on a clean patch - it was the Vintage Delay causing it, not the amp ( a Grammatico LaGrange). Many thanks for the tip.

[datacommando]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:42 AM, neil-johnson said:

it was the Vintage Delay causing it

Hi,

 

What you experienced using the Helix Vintage Digital is perfectly normal - it’s a side effect of the sample rate and bit depth you choose. To “clean up” the signal, increase the sample rate and bit depth, but more importantly increase the headroom option.

 

If you have ever used early examples of digital delays you will be aware of this. I still have an old (bought new in 1983) Ibanez DM 1000 in a rack over in the corner. That was an early model DDL running at 8kHz, but it had a compressor/expander circuit in the delay signal chain and the use of pre-and de-emphasis circuitry which makes for quieter operation. Lots of fun and a big leap from my old Simms - Watts Echo Dek. Now that was noisy - Google it.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

P.S. The post you replied to was from February 2018.

[PeterHamm]

Hey everybody, it's a 4 year old thread...

[PierM]

6 years old, but still looking young.