Jump to content
robbieb61

Just Can't Use The Guitar Modeling... :(

Recommended Posts

In workbench, there is an option for the 89's pickups modeled and a neutral body option. Have you tried those and compared it to the 89's real pickups? I've known about this but haven't ever actually compared the two. Wondering what you think about those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes sir. The day they came out with that update I grabbed it and tried it out.

It's definitely the best sounding humbucker fat sound of all the models.

Having said that...it lacks the detail and harmonics of the actual mags when you switch back and forth on the guitar.

 

In other words...if you are playing the lead to "Magic Man" by Heart...you wouldn't hesitate to turn off the modeling and use the mag pickups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use a JTV69 in my Eagles Tribute.I had to lower all string volumes and patch volumes to get the models working correctly.IMHO maxing them makes all the plinks planks plunks etc... worse.And I lowered the mags height as well.For my low gain Eagles material the guitar works great and I switch back and forth between mags/ models when appropriate. I bought the guitar specifically for this purpose and it works very well for when I dont want to bring a tele/ LP/ acoustic etc...to one of these gigs.I have found though it sounds better through my tube amps ( like everything else does) but still does a credible job through my HD500/ Alto powered speakers.

 

I had to stick with it a long while to figure it out.And I know you have done that.Maybe it just wont work for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a lot of physical work on the guitar to get rid of any of those anomalies JTSC777.

Got rid of the piece of garbage lock nut made of some kind of scrap metal and replaced it with a titanium locknut, Same with the string retainer bar. Put "noiseless springs" (rubber coated floyd springs) to get rid of the reverby aftertones that trem springs cause. 

And then I worked with the volumes on the individual strings, the entire preset of each one, etc, etc.

But no matter what I did...the mags just blow the models away with no contest. As do all my other guitars. The JTV 89F holds up fairly well against my more expensive guitars when using the mags (a little "thinner" than the rest...but not enough to be a deal breaker), and it plays pretty darn good.
But as I said earlier...the models just can't keep up with real pickups well enough for me to be able to use it on stage with my band. 

I mean I COULD use it...but it would never sound as good as the mag pickups do. :(

I hate that. I had wanted one of these for years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys try firmware 1.71

I know you will lose helix functionality and a colourful distracting hd workbench.

But give it a try when you’ve got the time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys try firmware 1.71

I know you will lose helix functionality and a colourful distracting hd workbench.

But give it a try when you’ve got the time

 

I just rolled back to 1.71. The models really do sound better at first listen. Went to install Workbench and it says "Requires OS 10.5." I have 10.11 something. It can't be that simple, can it, seeing a 1 after the decimal point and thinking it is too old? Anyway, none of the alt tunings work now. I could not manually set them either. Didn't they used to work before FW 2.x on the JTVs? (Edit - Do I have to install even older FW and work my way up to 1.71?)

I pulled out an old Windows 10 laptop. Installed Workbench 1.75 on that after I lied and told it I was Windows Vista, because it said there was no Workbench for Windows 10. I forgot how cumbersome Workbench was. Anyway, I loaded the latest Monkey for Windows 10 (1.62 I think, it's reinstalling 1.71 into my JTV-89F upstairs right now) and I'll see if I get the tunings back. 

 

Anyone roll back to 1.71 and solve these problems?

 

Thanks

 

Update: Installed 1.70 and got my alt tunings back. Now we try 1.71 again.

 

Update: Dang... 1.71 lost alt tunings again. Time to download the 1.71 fw and try local update. 

 

Update: No alt tuning again with local file. 

 

Reaching out to psarkissian. Any reason you can think of as to why JTV FW 1.70 and 2.21 allow alt tuning to work while 1.71 does not? Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, alt tunes works perfectly on 1.71 or any other firmware

I think you meant all your own custom alt tunes are gonne right?

If that is the case then it is a yesno matter what workbench unless you save your settings. However you can do watever alt tunes you wish without a workbench or computer, just the guitar itself

 

I think there is a youtube video on this, super easy, just press the models knob for 5 seconds and alt will blink and tge restis too hard to explain but you will get it when you watch it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Bigband,

No, not custom alt tuning. The built in alt tuning does not change anything when I change the knob to any of the alternate tuning. It did not allow me to program alternate tuning with the stand alone guitar procedure. I've done it many times in the past. 

1.70 and 2.21 everything works. 1.71 no alt tuning, but the models are clearly different sounding. That's the only 3 FW versions I tried. I have a L6Checksum.exe file that was saved on 8/27/15 on a backup drive and the 1.71 vxf file passed. The 1.71 file was downloaded from the Line6 site yesterday. I did no have one from 2015. For some reason, I only saved 2.21, 2.10, 2.00, 1.90 and 1.82 vxf files, all saved on 7/24/15.

 

post-1143921-0-85820800-1507384511_thumb.jpg

 

I'm using the OEM VDI and cable. 

 

post-1143921-0-96587100-1507384830_thumb.jpg

 

I've tried both the online and local file option on a MAC and a PC.

It would be nice if I could run 1.71 with all the features AND be able to load Workbench 1.62 on my MAC that meets the requirements of that application. It requires OS 10.5 and I am running OS 10.11.x 

I suppose I could create a service ticket, but I think the vxf firmware and WB app are no longer supported. Still, it would be nice if a Line6 staff person could help me out if they happen to read this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has me scratching my head. Anyone have a copy of the TylerVariax_1.71.vxf file they used successfully and could post or PM me so I could try this again?

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Variax HD came out so long ago. Since than, Helix had been developed. I love my Helix. By now, they should be able to refine the models with newer cpus without increasing cost.. Moore's law?

I bought the guitar twice and returned twice. The models just doesn't have the feel. Pod HD to Helix is a huge jump. If they can make such a quantum jump with the variax model, Line 6 will rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Reaching out to psarkissian. Any reason you can think of as to why JTV FW 1.70 and 2.21 allow alt tuning to work while 1.71 does not? Thanks!"---

How odd, v1.71 has never been a problem that way. I've never had that problem with it. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Disappointing and frustrating. :(

You have never seen that problem with 1.71, and the response from the ticket I submitted was "...there is not much I can help you with here...even though people on forum may have been successful with that in certain cases." In certain cases? The truth is closer to my JTV is the only case. 

After reading the changes, I realized the difference between 1.70 to 1.71 doesn't matter for me. I tried 1.70 again and no alt tuning. Back to 2.21 and alt tuning knob works. Even though I downloaded the 1.71 file from the Line6 site, it is the only copy I have. I would like to try a known good copy, but no one seems to want to send me one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm,... I'll have to try that out on a main board tomorrow. That's odd.

 

I would love to know how things go with that. Thanks for giving it a go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How odd. 

 

Early revision board programmed as an 89F,....

v1.70 Alt Tune works

v1.71 Alt Tune works

 

Newer revision board programmed as an 89F,....

v1.70 Alt Tune does not work

 

Newer revision board programmed as something else, like a JTV-69,...

v1.70 Alt Tune works

Since the 89F came out during a later Firmware revision,

and its earliest Firmware version would be a later one. That might

explain why v1.71 worked, it's a later version program.

 

 

If this were a newer board and a v2.00+, in another JTV, it would be considered a bug.

But an early version Firmware in a later version guitar,... not the case. 

With a Variax Standard being the way it is, Firmware won't roll back beyond 2.00 program.

 

Apparently, the 89F was not meant to be rolled back that far.

 

 

Thanks.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How odd. 

 

Early revision board programmed as an 89F,....

v1.70 Alt Tune works

v1.71 Alt Tune works

 

Newer revision board programmed as an 89F,....

v1.70 Alt Tune does not work

 

Newer revision board programmed as something else, like a JTV-69,...

v1.70 Alt Tune works

Since the 89F came out during a later Firmware revision,

and its earliest Firmware version would be a later one. That might

explain why v1.71 worked, it's a later version program.

 

 

If this were a newer board and a v2.00+, in another JTV, it would be considered a bug.

But an early version Firmware in a later version guitar,... not the case. 

With a Variax Standard being the way it is, Firmware won't roll back beyond 2.00 program.

 

Apparently, the 89F was not meant to be rolled back that far.

 

 

Thanks.

 

Thank you psarkissian, 

 

This was a process that certainly took time for you to perform, which you did not have to do. It means a lot to me that you did it, and also took the time to explain your logic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My Eagles Tribute “The Last Resort†debuted yesterday at a local venue /winery for almost 500 people.My JTV/HD500 worked perfectly.Sat right in the mix and performed LP P90s/ Tele/Strat/Acoustic 6-12 string and banjo duties. Worth every cent and every hour of time it took to dial it in.The other two guitarists are using pedals-tube amps and my tones were more Eagles like than theirs were.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to agree with Robbieb61 and Palico, I bought my JTV 69 and HD 500X so that I wouldn't have to carry a bunch of amps and guitars on the road, but the modeled guitars just aren't cutting it. I'm a good tweaker and have been tweaking the models for 3 yrs and still can't get them to sound good, I'm back to carrying 5 & 6 guitars. I'm a clean player for the most part so the tone of the guitar is very important to me because it doesn't get hidden behind crunch or distortion. The magnetic PU sound great! and the alternate tuning is nice. I'm most disappointed in the Spank sounds. I started to give the guitar away when I couldn't use it for what I bought it for, but the guitar sounds great using the mag pickups. I need a strat on the road and since the Spank model is not convincing and I'm not willing to take my 79 on the road, I'm having the JTV modified with a push push switch on the tone control to split the coil on the humbucker allowing me to use it as a humbucker or a single coil when I need that strat single coil sound in the number 1 position. I keep checking to see if Line 6 is going to update the JTV models but nothing. I believe that since they've gone to Yamaha they are no longer supporting the JTV's. Sad cause the concept of the JTV is good and practical for gigging musicians, the modeling just needs to be tweaked to be comparable to the Boss GR-55 guitar synth IMHO. I hope whatever modeling updates Line 6 makes to it's modeling platform that it's backwards compatible with the JTV's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope whatever modeling updates Line 6 makes to it's modeling platform that it's backwards compatible with the JTV's.

Don't hold tour breath...all the guys still using the 500X wish that Helix models were backwards compatible, too... but I'm guessing (hoping? lol) that the next generation Variax will be a similar jump. It's been, what, ~7 yrs since the JTV's first appeared, or close to it? For a tech- driven product, that's ancient. I'm hoping that the lack of any significant updates for the current Variax stuff over the last couple of years means they've got something else in the oven...preferably addressing some of the JTV's deficiencies. I'd be overjoyed if they figured out something that didn't rely on piezos, but that's probably a bit of a pipe dream.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't hold tour breath...all the guys still using the 500X wish that Helix models were backwards compatible, too... but I'm guessing (hoping? lol) that the next generation Variax will be a similar jump. It's been, what, ~7 yrs since the JTV's first appeared, or close to it? For a tech- driven product, that's ancient. I'm hoping that the lack of any significant updates for the current Variax stuff over the last couple of years means they've got something else in the oven...preferably addressing some of the JTV's deficiencies. dI'd be overjoyed if they figured out something that didn't rely on piezos, but that's probably a bit of a pipe dream.

 

I'm a touring musician. Initially I was skeptical of giving up my amps and guitars for modeling in a live sound environment, but saw the benefit of having to carry less gear and not taking chances of my axe's getting stolen provided the models were accurate sounding. I have a Line 6 Variax Acoustic 700, Relay G90 wireless, both of which I love and a HD 500X and of course The JTV 69. So you can see, I've invested some money in Line 6 gear thinking that if the models weren't accurate Line 6 would continue to update they're products as technology advanced, but if this is not the case, I'm not going to continue to sink money into a company who doesn't appreciate the customers who believed in them and purchased their product. The best way to do that is to provide firmware updates to legacy products. I almost bought a Helix, but I checked out the Headrush first and IMHO the Headrush amps sound much more realistic and it's more versatile so I bought it and it's working out great. I'm not hating on Line 6. I just wish they would continue to update their gear and support their loyal customers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure but I suspect Line6 may have reached the limits of what can be accomplished with guitar modeling, at least at a reasonable development expense. I don't know how they capture the models, but it might involve combinations of impulse responses. Also the reaction to updating to the JTV HD models wasn't that positive, a lot of people preferred the old models. That might discourage Line6 from doing it again.

 

Also, its becoming possible to do the modeling outside the guitar with instruments bodies in computer software or Helix. I use an acoustic guitar body image in Helix to improve the tone of the piezo pickup in my acoustic guitar. It works very well. I hope someday Line6 will support a null model that provides the raw piezo outputs so we can take advantage of this with our variax guitars (I have 4).

 

Then there's market demand. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use an acoustic guitar body image in Helix to improve the tone of the piezo pickup in my acoustic guitar. It works very well.

Try that IR with the JTV acoustic models...I've been using a Martin D45 IR with the J200 model. Results are surprisingly good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×