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Question about impulse responses


Mudloop
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Hi,

 

I haven't done much with Helix Native yet, and there's something I'm wondering about.

 

If I change the IRs in my library, is this a global thing? IE if I overwrite an IR, will this change the sound of existing songs when I open them?

Seems to me like it would, but on the other hand, the whole idea is that presets are saved in the tracks, so it would be sort of annoying to change the way tracks sound without even touching them directly.

 

Thanks!

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Hi,

 

I haven't done much with Helix Native yet, and there's something I'm wondering about.

 

If I change the IRs in my library, is this a global thing? IE if I overwrite an IR, will this change the sound of existing songs when I open them?

Seems to me like it would, but on the other hand, the whole idea is that presets are saved in the tracks, so it would be sort of annoying to change the way tracks sound without even touching them directly.

 

Thanks!

To answer your question directly, in my test, yes.  I was wondering something similar so I tried looking at your question and my own.  In a simple test of just changing the IR in a particular IR location (not in the preset), the presets that uses that IR location will use the new IR.  That makes sense to me and is not surprising.  I do note that in probably all DAWs you can render the track and use the current IR and if you change that IR it won't impact the sound.  What is more relevant to me is, I used a Native preset that was already saved and I changed the IR in the preset (not globally in the IR list) and I changed an amp setting.  I did not save that changed preset, but I saved the song in my DAW.  When I reopened the song, the changes I made were there - very cool and as one would hope.  When I put the original preset  on a new track, it was not changed, which also makes sense.  

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Thanks for checking...

 

I find this a little bit alarming. Imagine your IR library being full, and you want to try out some new ones. So you have no choice but replacing some... And unless you keep notes, you risk changing how existing songs sound. That's a bad thing.

 

They should add some sort of "store IR in patch" option in the plugin. Of course this could make transferring patches to the hardware a little bit trickier, so they would have to put some thought into it :)

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Thanks for checking...

 

I find this a little bit alarming. Imagine your IR library being full, and you want to try out some new ones. So you have no choice but replacing some... And unless you keep notes, you risk changing how existing songs sound. That's a bad thing.

 

They should add some sort of "store IR in patch" option in the plugin. Of course this could make transferring patches to the hardware a little bit trickier, so they would have to put some thought into it :)

It's the same as the Helix, which I have, so I guess I'm just used to it.  All my IR names have the same number as it's location and I drag IRs out and stick others in for evaluation.  I'm pretty methodical so I don't mess up too much.  But yeah, you need good notes or you're hosed!  Been there, done that!

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It's the same as the Helix, which I have, so I guess I'm just used to it.  All my IR names have the same number as it's location and I drag IRs out and stick others in for evaluation.  I'm pretty methodical so I don't mess up too much.  But yeah, you need good notes or you're hosed!  Been there, done that!

 

I have a Helix too (rack version), and while it' could be annoying there, it's acceptable. In plugin land, it's expected that you can't break one song from within another song... or at least, that's what I've grown to expect. I'm very disorganized, but so far, I've never had to worry about plugins that have this risk.

 

The thing is, I would want them to fix this, but in order to make an ideascale suggestion, I'd need a suggestion for an actual solution, something that doesn't complicate the plugin too much but does the trick... All I can think of is an "IR library lock" button, which basically saves the entire plugin library with the preset, but I'm not sure if that's ideal. At least it would allow us to protect tracks, even though it would still be possible to forget to lock the library.

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I have a Helix too (rack version), and while it' could be annoying there, it's acceptable. In plugin land, it's expected that you can't break one song from within another song... or at least, that's what I've grown to expect. I'm very disorganized, but so far, I've never had to worry about plugins that have this risk.

 

The thing is, I would want them to fix this, but in order to make an ideascale suggestion, I'd need a suggestion for an actual solution, something that doesn't complicate the plugin too much but does the trick... All I can think of is an "IR library lock" button, which basically saves the entire plugin library with the preset, but I'm not sure if that's ideal. At least it would allow us to protect tracks, even though it would still be possible to forget to lock the library

 

I have the rack too.  It's like work - don't come with a problem if you don't have a solution!  Helix and Native are both amazing (at least to me).  I've done some sound comparisons and I can't tell Native from "the real thing."  Been doing some recording, as usual, and both continue to amaze me.

 

Since this is kind of about IRs, I really enjoy the IR discussions on the Helix Forum.  That's all I use (no cabs) and it is amazing how everyone (me too, of course) has IRs from one maker that sound better than other makers and everyone is so passionate about which ones are best.

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I have the rack too.  It's like work - don't come with a problem if you don't have a solution!  Helix and Native are both amazing (at least to me).  I've done some sound comparisons and I can't tell Native from "the real thing."  Been doing some recording, as usual, and both continue to amaze me.

 

Since this is kind of about IRs, I really enjoy the IR discussions on the Helix Forum.  That's all I use (no cabs) and it is amazing how everyone (me too, of course) has IRs from one maker that sound better than other makers and everyone is so passionate about which ones are best.

 

Yeah I did some comparisons as well, I'd say they're identical in sound (at least when using the same input). I'm really happy with the Helix line, but that doesn't mean there aren't some things that could use some improvement :)

 

I personally like using presets (mostly fremen), and making them work for me. I've dialed in some decent tones myself, but it's just more convenient to have solid starting points.

Which is why I think the global IR thing needs a solution. I imagine I will buy other sound packs in the future, and they all come with a myriad of IRs, and my library is already full. I'm not using all of them, but keeping track of which ones I use is a hassle.

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Your approach is diff from mine (fremen presets) so I see your issue.  I make all my own so I'm less likely to have as many issues.  Every couple months I get the bug to work on my IRs.  I did this recently and spent a day seeing which ones I don't use, and taking them out and putting the remaining ones in a rationale order then fixing all my presets.  If I was still working I wouldn't have the time for that!  Now that I think about that, it really sucked!  The help page has the IR manager for Macs but I don't think there's one for Windows yet and it probably won't solve our problems anyway!

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On Helix Native it seems like presets are always modified if you create them with custom IRs and then move/change the IR *.wav files from their original position.

 

I found a solution by creating presets with custom IRs and then renaming the IR *.wav file(s) with the number they have on IR list when I first created the preset.

 

That way I can always change/modify the IR list and always be able to recall the original preset by re-importing its IR files placing them in the right position!

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The primary things I would like to see changed in both Helix and Helix Native's IR management:

 

  • Increase the namespace to something reasonable that allows enough meaningful information about the IR to be displayed and does not require renaming of IRs from the many vendors that use longer names.
  • All IRs must have a unique name. This might be required to execute the next bullet point.
  • The IR blocks in presets use the unique names of the IRs, perhaps with some kind of aliasing, so that they can be moved from slot to slot without breaking the link between the IR and its corresponding preset(s).
  • Indicate which IRs are in use and prompt the user before allowing them to be removed. Ideally an override setting allowing the prompt to be tuned off would be provided.
  • Allow more IRs to be stored on the Helix and Helix Native. I find the current number insufficient on the Helix and particularly on Native where the hardware limitations are determined only by the computer's configuration. It seems that many more IRs could be accommodated in Native being run on sufficient hardware. If there is not adequate memory onboard the Helix to allow more IRs a possible alternative would be to allow a Setlist to be changed to and designated an IR list. Preset backup files and IRs are roughly the same size and I am sure there are plenty of users who would be happy to give up a Setlist in order to gain the ability to have twice as many IRs. Some users might even prefer two or three of their Setlists be IR lists instead. Perhaps there is already adequate memory on the Helix however so as not to have to lose Setlists. It seems it would be an even simpler matter to allow multiple or larger IR lists on Helix Native.
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