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A question about upper limits of patch building


fr0sty
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Helix native dims some model types and from what I can tell from the manual this is to remain compatible with the hardware version of helix.  That's all well and good, but it seems fairly limiting.  For example I have a patch with two instances of the pv panama amp/cab model (4x12 uber).  With just those two amps selected, I can't choose valve driver as a distortion (it's dimmed). If I choose any distortion in front of one of those amps, then I can't add models of any sort.

 

I do have a crappy older PC and plan on updating it early next year, but can anyone else confirm the limitations I'm seeing are due to my pc or just how helix native tries to be compatible with the hardware version?

 

Edit to add I created an idea scale for my request. Please upvote if you agree.

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It is nothing to do with the PC and everything to do with hardware compatibility. PC running out of power is disruption to playback, clicks, timing out..

Hardware is limited to what can run in close to real time on the DSP chips. You have one DSP per "path", so to get more onto a patch on the hardware you need to use both DSP by extending the patch to use both upper and lower paths.

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You'll need to use the second signal path to get the 2 amps and effect you want happening at all once. Clicking on the output block (circle at the end of the path) will give you the option to connect to the 2nd signal path. There's a few ways this can be done. I made a quick mock up, I have a PV Panama on path 1a and 2a, and a Valve Driver on 1a. I put a gain block as a place holder on path 1b and routed that to path 2a. This way the Valve driver is hitting both amps. This should free up plenty of DSP, I was able to add in quite a bit more.

 

 

  

 

 

 

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Thanks for the confirmation and suggestion.  The reason I have two amps on one path is to allow multiple tracks through one helix instance and be able to pan those tracks left and right.  That can't be done, as far as I know, using the method above.  I'll try it though to be sure.

 

Hey Line 6, please please please offer an option for native patches to ignore the hardware patch processing limit.  I knew it existed, but didn't think it would take so little to reach the upper limits.

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Thanks for the confirmation and suggestion.  The reason I have two amps on one path is to allow multiple tracks through one helix instance and be able to pan those tracks left and right.  That can't be done, as far as I know, using the method above.  I'll try it though to be sure.

 

 

You can pan them at the output blocks

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I tried that months back when trying to understand panning in native, but that method doesn't allow the individual track being routed into a single instance helix to be panned separately. It sounds stereo when playing live into helix, but when I route multiple recorded tracks to once instance of native, they can't individually be panned. The only way I found was the method on page 25 of the helix manual.

 

Discrete Stereo Processing with Amps
As mentioned in "Block Order and Stereo Imaging" on page 23, each path within the plug-in is capable of processing discrete left & right audio input on a stereo Audio, Aux or Bus track, provided you're utilizing all stereo blocks on the plug-in's signal paths. But if you're wanting to utilize any Amp or Preamp blocks (which are all mono-output blocks), it is necessary to split the path to allow the left & right audio channels to be processed discretely.
Start with the AUX: DiscreteDuo preset provided within the factory TEMPLATES/OTHER setlist. This preset already has all necessary routing configured for discrete stereo using an amp on each path. To follow are the key settings for this signal flow.
1.
A Split Y type block is used with its Balance A & B parameters panned hard left and right.
2.
The Merge block's Pan A & B parameters are set hard left and right, respectively, to also keep the two channels' audio discretely separate.
3.
The Path 1 Output block is fed to Path 2A, allowing additional stereo effects blocks to be applied.
Merge blockSplit Y blockPath 1A (with mono blocks)Path 2A (with stereo blocks)Path 1B (with mono blocks)
In this configuration, Path 1A of the split path will process only the left signal, and the Path 1B will process only the right signal, allowing you to add mono blocks on each of these parallel paths accordingly.
By placing stereo blocks on Path 2, it will still retain the left/right channel

You can pan them at the output blocks

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I created an idea scale for my request. Please upvote if you agree.

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/idea-v2/918780

 

Digital Igloo has said publicly that this is being considered:

 

 

We're flirting with the idea of a global Hardware Compatibility switch that would effectively bypass all restrictions. So, provided your computer is burly enough, you might be able to fill all 32 blocks with Amps and high-resolution IRs. Obviously that preset couldn't be loaded in Helix hardware.

 

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/helix-native-plug-in.1786588/page-33#post-24689734

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