neuk01642 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Hey ya'll So after about 6 months of fighting with my Kemper trying to get the sound in my head out of it (and i imagine it's in there and quite happy to admit it's my lack of ability and not a fault of the Kemper), I took the plunge and picked up a Helix rack second hand. I got to a point of contentedness within about an hour of noodling... so so far so good. Anyway, question. Looking around at the paid-for preset market and it got me to thinking. Do these presets actually offer you anything that you don't already have and are merely a way to circumvent the need to tweak to get your tone. They're essentially people doing the grunt work for you? With the Kemper, you're getting a unique file when you buy a profile (well the good ones anyway), but why would I pay for a preset which is essentially a set of parameter tweaks? I don't want this to come across as dismissive, it's really not meant to be and I'm all for short cuts to get the tone you want so you can get to the playing music and writing part. And obviously appreciate the effort people go to to get these preset packs together. Thanks Matt - so far, loving the Helix (although it's only been about 12 hours), and am on the cusp of flogging my profiler and buying a Fryette Powerstation to keep the Helix company ;oD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanecgriffo Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 some commercial presets include a unique IR file but otherwise yes, there is nothing that isn't in helix, just a lot of experience, and tweaking oh and good ears hopefully! -well that doesn't all come in helix i guess 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neuk01642 Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 some commercial presets include a unique IR file but otherwise yes, there is nothing that isn't in helix, just a lot of experience, and tweaking oh and good ears hopefully! -well that doesn't all come in helix i guess Ha Hahaha... that would be an odd thing to find lurking at the bottom of the box next to the power cable!. Like I said, not trying to minimise the skill/work of people creating commercial presets but just wanted to get my head round what they actually were. Cheers for the reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 A modeler like Helix or AxeFX is more open-ended in one sense, and more closed in another. With the exception of presets that come with IRs, commercial Helix presets are made with the same tools your Helix has. No Secret Sauce but their maker's vision, ears, knowledge, and experience. Kemper profiles are a "sample" (poor choice of words) of some real-world amp that someone had in the room and profiled, presumably set up in some cool way. Unless you have that same gear, you couldn't have made them yourself, no matter how talented you are. I don't have a shed-full of boutique amps to profile, and don't like the idea that I have to buy new tones rather than make them myself, so on that level a modeler's a better choice for me than a Kemper. I might feel differently if I played a Kemper and flat-out loved a bunch of profiles I tried. All that may be different for you. There are an awful lot of profiles out there. If none of them float your boat, you might as well move on, and Helix is a great tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neuk01642 Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 A modeler like Helix or AxeFX is more open-ended in one sense, and more closed in another. With the exception of presets that come with IRs, commercial Helix presets are made with the same tools your Helix has. No Secret Sauce but their maker's vision, ears, knowledge, and experience. Kemper profiles are a "sample" (poor choice of words) of some real-world amp that someone had in the room and profiled, presumably set up in some cool way. Unless you have that same gear, you couldn't have made them yourself, no matter how talented you are. I don't have a shed-full of boutique amps to profile, and don't like the idea that I have to buy new tones rather than make them myself, so on that level a modeler's a better choice for me than a Kemper. I might feel differently if I played a Kemper and flat-out loved a bunch of profiles I tried. All that may be different for you. There are an awful lot of profiles out there. If none of them float your boat, you might as well move on, and Helix is a great tool. Hey zooey That's kind of where I'd got to. I love the Kemper it sounds really really good if you like exactly the same thing as the guy who profiled the amp. If you like his speaker choice, his mic choice and positioning, his choice of eq and boost... and how many times has that ever happened?? Trouble is, the minute you want to tweak, that beautifully crafted profile goes to lollipop... and I am a rabid tweaker which is what led me to the Helix. And so far, I'm loving the fact that I can tweak to my hearts content and get the sound I have in my head. Big test tonight when I unplug the kemper and hook up the Helix to my pedal rack and try my two Fortin boost pedals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenoBluzGtr Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 The paid presets serve a purpose... they give you ideas of different approaches to building patches, plus the guys and gals who sell them invest a lot of time getting tones just right, plus they're really not expensive, in the big scheme of things. however, once you get comfortable with your own approach, I find the paid presets to be something of a novelty. I still check some out every now and then, but just like your "own tone", it's hard to find someone who builds a preset that works for you out of the box. Every one that I've bought, I still had to invest a couple of hours getting the volumes balanced, adjusting this block or that block to add or subtract something that was missing or distracting to me. Once I got settled on my own approach, I can build a good preset pretty quickly that works for me. I liken the paid presets to a buddy calling you up and saying, "Hey, I got an amp/pedalboard rig that sounds just like artist XY! you should use this tonight at your gig!"... then taking his rig, plugging it in and hoping it sounds like you imagine it would. A lot less hassle with a digital file into a Helix, but similar concept. You'd likely be tweaking knobs, and turning off certain pedals, adding a couple of your own, etc... before it worked for you in your situation. I highly recommend buying a package or two when you find some clips that speak to you, but remember, the Helix is sensitive to which guitar is used, which outputs you use, what type of speaker/pa/frfr/headphones/DAW/etc you play into, and even the room. So don't expect to drop it in and hit the stage without a lot of tweaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neuk01642 Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 The paid presets serve a purpose... they give you ideas of different approaches to building patches, plus the guys and gals who sell them invest a lot of time getting tones just right, plus they're really not expensive, in the big scheme of things. however, once you get comfortable with your own approach, I find the paid presets to be something of a novelty. I still check some out every now and then, but just like your "own tone", it's hard to find someone who builds a preset that works for you out of the box. Every one that I've bought, I still had to invest a couple of hours getting the volumes balanced, adjusting this block or that block to add or subtract something that was missing or distracting to me. Once I got settled on my own approach, I can build a good preset pretty quickly that works for me. I liken the paid presets to a buddy calling you up and saying, "Hey, I got an amp/pedalboard rig that sounds just like artist XY! you should use this tonight at your gig!"... then taking his rig, plugging it in and hoping it sounds like you imagine it would. A lot less hassle with a digital file into a Helix, but similar concept. You'd likely be tweaking knobs, and turning off certain pedals, adding a couple of your own, etc... before it worked for you in your situation. I highly recommend buying a package or two when you find some clips that speak to you, but remember, the Helix is sensitive to which guitar is used, which outputs you use, what type of speaker/pa/frfr/headphones/DAW/etc you play into, and even the room. So don't expect to drop it in and hit the stage without a lot of tweaks. Thank man, I hear you. Has to be said there are already a couple that I feel like might be worth a purchase. Greg DeLune (pretty sure I'm spelling that wrong), 3Sigma, and Scott Minchk. And none are outrageous. I honestly couldn't stop myself tweaking even if I tried. The imperative to fiddle and put my own mark on a sound is unstoppable. I have such a sense of what I want to hear in my head it's actually debilitating in terms of musical productivity, and it's one of the reasons I've benched my kemper and hope the Helix hits the spot. Thanks again for the insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Just to say it, many people think the Kemper bypasses the fiddling urge somewhat, because you more or less just play the profile, not mess w it. If it still tickled your inner tinkerer, that may just be who you are ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenoBluzGtr Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Don't forget about Marco Fanton. His stuff is awesome. But before you drop any money, check out the "Customtone" link above. 227 pages of FREE presets to try out. averages about 8-10 per page, so there are hundreds of free presets - many just as good as paid-for stuff - at the very least, it will give you quite a few different ideas for your own patches. Just look for the ones that have triple-digit downloads. Usually worth the try. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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