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Nelder17

High cut on high gain w/ FRFR

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Just curious where all my fellow high gain users generally set their high cuts when running FRFR (or PA speakers, or whatever you want to call them this week).

 

Currently I use a Lo and Hi cut block set to 130hz and 5 or 4.9khz after the IR block, and in the IR block I have lo and hi cut set to 80hz and 14khz just to help again with sizzle and woof. 4.9khz seems extreme to me on the hi cut block, but if I don't go that low with the frequency, it sounds really really harsh and digital. I guess I just wanted to see if this is just me or if this is relatively normal. I know when I hook the helix up to my DAW through my interface (Apogee One) I never have to use that aggressive of a high cut, and just one around 14khz is generally enough to get rid of the high end sizzle and digital-ness. So, is it normal to be cutting around 5k through FRFR, I guess is my basic question?

 

OH, quick edit, I'm running 3 sigma audio IR's. Specifically the traditional rectifier 4x12.

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The high cut curves are not very steep so sometimes you land up setting it artificially low to achieve the results you want. If you want to make a more dramatic difference, you may want to notch filter out the frequencies you want to get rid of. 

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Low cut at 80 Hz and high cut at 12.5 KHz in the IR block. I’m using Celestion mix IRs, which seem pretty well “pre-EQd†at least to my liking. They were produced with three mics - SM57, R121 and MD421, which results in a darker IR than most I’ve tried with a single SM57 mic. The “hi-gain†mix IR has even more high cut built in. Highly recommend their Redback IRs to cut fizz, particularly the 4x12 closed back cabinet version.

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I use Own Hammer IR's with a Yamaha DXR10 and have found that cutting in the IR low 90-110, high 5-7 but then placing the Parametric eq at the end of the chain as described in this article works great for me.

If  you read the article it explains the EQ is intended to be used without a cab sim or IR as a way of making the moddeler more amp in the room like but I found just the EQ to be as you discribe to much sizzle,fizzy and very digital but IR and EQ together seem great, try it you have nothing to loose just copy the settings from Chas Boston.

https://thefriendlygearfreaks.com/threads/outside-the-box-presets-line-6-helix-platform-60-presets-all-amps.5717/

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I can't say there's any real consistency in where and how much I'm cutting on highs and lows as it's so dependent upon which guitar is being used, the style of the song, the amp, and particularly on the cab/IR, mic, and mic/cab mixes.  I generally prefer to use a parametric EQ toward the end of my signal chain rather than cuts on the IR or cabinets as it tends to have a steeper slope on the cuts.  It also provides me with the ability to accentuate or notch out specific frequencies.  In some cases I require no high or low cuts.  My high cuts (if necessary) range from around 8000 hz up to 12000 hz.  Low cuts (if used) in the 130 to 140 hz.  But all of that is based on what I'm hearing.

 

I'm going through a Yamaha DXR12 which is in the floor monitor position behind me in a typical backline fashion.  The DXR12 is set to the 'Monitor' position on its DSL selector which reduces the bass frequencies pretty significantly.  Generally speaking I use mic and cabinet mixes...either dual cab with Helix stock cabs, or mic mixes on Celestion and Ownhammer IR's most commonly using R121 and MD421 mics.

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Personally, I thought the 3Sigma IRs were very scooped, so much so that I hardly ever use the few I have. Maybe try some others, or even the stock cabs, which IMO are NOT as useless as you'll hear said sometimes. I'm not a high gain guy much, so this may not apply, but I like most other IR brands more -- Ownhammer, CabIR, Celestion, Dr Bonkers... And stock cabs.

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Hmm some stuff to try out here for sure. Thanks for the tips, lads. For the record I have Ownhammer and Rosen Digital IR's as well. I definitely prefer the Ownhammer's for recording, they just didn't translate into an FRFR situation as well.

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I use the 3Sigma IRs all the time as well....but I find I am cutting the high end back to as much as 3kHz, and low around 120Hz. That is using the modded 2204 amp model and the Marshall V30 IR. It sounds killer for me both recording. But tone is subjective so.......people are forever complimenting my tone and how huge my guitar sounds live which is nice :)

 

I would consider myself a moderate gain kinda guy, and for me the 3Sigma instantly sounded good so I have just stuck with them. I mainly just tweak as noted above for my studio monitors or to sue with my L2T speakers or direct to PA/FOH. Works across all outputs and platforms.

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I use the 3Sigma IRs all the time as well....but I find I am cutting the high end back to as much as 3kHz, and low around 120Hz. That is using the modded 2204 amp model and the Marshall V30 IR. It sounds killer for me both recording. But tone is subjective so.......people are forever complimenting my tone and how huge my guitar sounds live which is nice :)

 

I would consider myself a moderate gain kinda guy, and for me the 3Sigma instantly sounded good so I have just stuck with them. I mainly just tweak as noted above for my studio monitors or to sue with my L2T speakers or direct to PA/FOH. Works across all outputs and platforms.

 

 

Yeah I probably should have stated that I pretty exclusively use the Cali IV Lead model. I'm a big time Mesa guy and having owned a 92' Mark IV rack mount I know what i'm looking for as far as sound. I also tend to lean more towards a darker tone in general, for whatever reason. Even on the real Mark IV I never pushed the 6600 slider up above the mid line, which goes against the typical V curve.

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I prefer a darker tone as well, which is hard to get on the Helix I find. Most higher gain amps are grainy and fizzy....I almost gave up on the Helix until I found the 3Sigma IRs, and even then I went through a crap load until I found the tone I wanted. Now I use that one IR with 5 or 6 different amps and very pleased with the result. Tweaking the IR high and low cuts make all the difference.

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Shred, which 3Sigma IR is that one you use?

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I've only tried the Mesa IR's from 3 sigma so far, myself. I have the OS recto and the traditional, and prefer the trad. I use the new "ACE" models they have and I like position 3 (cone/cap edge) in the "a" configuration, which is captured using a tube amp instead of the "b" variations that were done using a flat solid state. I plan on picking up a couple of the IR's that have V30's mixed with other speakers (Uberkab, Friedman's...) and one of the ENGL models just to test.

 

 

Quick update - I tried using a parametric EQ at the end of my chain instead of the simple low/hi cut. Maybe it's just placebo effect but I find it to be a little more natural in it's roll off. I went from having the hi cut set to 4.9k to 6.3k, and the low from 130hz to 110 hz. Unfortunately my speaker seems to be VERY directional, so even a slight change of angle from the speaker gives me a very different tone. Right now I have it set to be an ice pick and take my head off if i'm right in the line of fire, but sound natural and pleasant if I set a few degrees off center. 

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Shred, which 3Sigma IR is that one you use?

I am using the Marsh 251 (V30 421 cab) ACE postion A IR as my main response on pretty much all amps. Sounds phenomenal running the Helix into the L2T speakers or through  studio monitors.

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I am using the Marsh 251 (V30 421 cab) ACE postion A IR as my main response on pretty much all amps. Sounds phenomenal running the Helix into the L2T speakers or through  studio monitors.

 

Hmm i'll pick this one up and give it a try. Never been a fan of Marshall's loaded with V30's but hey, ya never know.

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Quick update...

 

 

I picked up the Bogner Uberkab and ENGL Pro 412 IR's from 3 sigma, and I actually like both better than the Recto IR's I've been using. Something more pleasant about the high end and more midrange for sure, and still chunky without being as boomy.

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Quick update...

 

 

I picked up the Bogner Uberkab and ENGL Pro 412 IR's from 3 sigma, and I actually like both better than the Recto IR's I've been using. Something more pleasant about the high end and more midrange for sure, and still chunky without being as boomy.

I really liked the Randall cab IR as well...thumpy 

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