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Legacy FX that are not already in Helix (i think? do you agree?)

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Quickly gone through the list of legacy FX in the HXFX manual and compared them to the HX effects and created a list of the ones that seem, from a quick glance, to not be already in Helix 2.30

Discuss if you spot any that are actually in Helix already, or if i made any errors.

https://line6.com/data/6/0a020a3d3f4a5a6a1897ecdf6/application/pdf/HX%20Effects%202.50%20Owners%20Manual%20-%20English%20.pdf

https://line6.com/m13/images/m13_modelgallery02.pdf

 

39 or 41 of the Legacy FX have not appeared in Helix before.

See Pan/ panner and Cosmos Echo/Multi Head for indecision about two of the FX appearing in helix before.

 

Distortion Models - 8  

Heavy Dist              BOSS® Metal Zone 
Colordrive               Colorsound® Overdriver 
Buzz Saw                Maestro® Fuzz Tone 
Jumbo Fuzz            Vox® Tone Bender 
Jet Fuzz                  Roland® Jet Phaser 
L6 Drive                  Colorsound® Overdriver (modded) 
L6 Distortion          Line 6 Original 
Sub Oct Fuzz          PAiA Roctave Divider 
 

Dynamics Models - 5 
 
Blue Comp              BOSS® CS-1 
Blue Comp Treb      BOSS® CS-1 (Treble switch on) 
Vetta Comp             Line 6 Original 
Vetta Juice             Line 6 Original 
Boost Comp            MXR® Micro Amp 
 

Modulation Models -  6-7
 
Pattern Trem           Line 6 Original 

?? Panner                 Line 6 Original - HX version is available in Helix Pan/Volume- ? 
Panned Phaser        Ibanez® Flying Pan 
Barberpole Phaser  Line 6 Original 
Dual Phaser             Mu-Tron® Bi-Phase 
Dimension               Roland® Dimension D

Freq Shift               Line 6 Original 

 

Delay Models    -    6/7

Stereo                    Line 6 Original 
Dig w/Mod              Line 6 Original 
Lo Res                    Line 6 Original 
Tube Echo              Maestro® Echoplex EP-1 
Echo Platter           Binson® EchoRec® 
Auto-Vol Echo        Line 6 Original
Multi-Head             Roland® RE-101 Space Echo (Helix has Cosmos Echo - based on the Roland RE-201 Version, according to the HXFX manual)

 

Pitch/Synth Models -  6

 

Bass Octaver           EBS® OctaBass 
Octi Synth                Line 6 Original

Synth O Matic        Line 6 Original 
Attack Synth          Korg® X911 Guitar Synth 
Synth String           Roland® GR700 Guitar Synth 
Growler                  Line 6 Original 
 

Filter Models       -  8
 
Voice Box                Line 6 Original
Q Filter                    Line 6 Original
Seeker                     Z Vex Seek Wah 
Obi Wah                  Oberheim® voltage-controlled S&H filter 
Throbber                 Electrix® Filter Factory 
Slow Filter              Line 6 Original 
Spin Cycle              Craig Anderton's Wah/Anti-Wah 
Comet Trails           Line 6 Original

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Note that even for those Legacy models that already exist in Helix the underlying modeling technology is different so they won't sound exactly the same. You should consider them to be two different models of the same analog device.

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Note that even for those Legacy models that already exist in Helix the underlying modeling technology is different so they won't sound exactly the same. You should consider them to be two different models of the same analog device.

As I understand it in 2.5 the legacy effects that already exist in the Helix will be moved to the Legacy folder, and the legacy effects (that don’t exist yet in the Helix) will also be added to the Legacy folder. But then, in 2.5 you will have in the Legacy folder.....duplicate names....? Probably not, they probably will be recognizable. Just thinking aloud.

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Note that even for those Legacy models that already exist in Helix the underlying modeling technology is different so they won't sound exactly the same. You should consider them to be two different models of the same analog device.

Thanks Silverhead,

Totally for sure i get that and its good to know to compare and experiment...

Just wanted to create a list of FX that havent appeared in Helix before,

 

I have just looked at the updated "Helix Amp Model Gallery - Real Controls vs Invented" and realise there are some differences in our lists of which FX have or have not already appeared as FX in helix FW2.3....

http://line6.com/support/topic/19961-helix-amp-model-gallery-real-controls-vs-invented/page-2

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As I understand it in 2.5 the legacy effects that already exist in the Helix will be moved to the Legacy folder, and the legacy effects (that don’t exist yet in the Helix) will also be added to the Legacy folder. But then, in 2.5 you will have in the Legacy folder.....duplicate names....?

 

My understanding is this will only be for the reverbs.

The reverbs in FW 2.3 will be moved into the reverb legacy folder.

An the new FW2.5 HX reverbs have different names to the current FW2.3 reverbs, so no duplication of names

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My understanding is this will only be for the reverbs.

The reverbs in FW 2.3 will be moved into the reverb legacy folder.

An the new FW2.5 HX reverbs have different names to the current FW2.3 reverbs, so no duplication of names

Only the reverbs in Helix 2.3 are legacy by origin? Could be, could not be, I don’t know.

 

About your list: I think I spot something: the Roland Space Echo is already in Helix 2.3, it is called Cosmos Echo.

 

.....There you have it: thats not a reverb :) BUT: it indeed does have a different name. BUT, I get a bit confused now, cause Cosmos Echo is probably not considered as legacy origin...or is it? Whatever......we will know it when 2.5 arrives, its not that important.

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Only the reverbs in Helix 2.3 are legacy by origin? Could be, could not be, I don’t know.

 

About your list: I think I spot something: the Roland Space Echo is already in Helix 2.3, it is called Cosmos Echo.

 

.....There you have it: thats not a reverb :) BUT: it indeed does have a different name. BUT, I get a bit confused now, cause Cosmos Echo is probably not considered as legacy origin...or is it? Whatever......we will know it when 2.5 arrives, its not that important.

 

Only the Reverbs In Helix 2.3 were non HX effects and thus will become legacy once the new HX reverbs arrive - correct according to the HX effects manual

https://line6.com/data/6/0a020a3d3f4a5a6a1897ecdf6/application/pdf/HX%20Effects%202.50%20Owners%20Manual%20-%20English%20.pdf

 

Yes the Helix does have a space / cosmos echo...

 

The cosmos echo is Helix 2.3 is based on the Roland® RE-202 Space Echo

Where as the Legacy Multi head effect is based the Roland RE-101 Space Echo, according to the HXFX manual....

I dont know How much difference there was between the original RE101 and 202 and how different the HX and legacy versions will sound - we will found out...

 

Here is a bit of background on it....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_RE-201

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Don't know whether this is actually the case but I have heard that the Helix wah effects were "legacy" ports as well. If that is true shouldn't they be placed under the "Legacy" heading also?

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Don't know whether this is actually the case but I have heard that the Helix wah effects were "legacy" ports as well. If that is true shouldn't they be placed under the "Legacy" heading also?

 

Hey thanks that info...

 

Just pulled up this post...

 

phil_m, on 28 Sept 2016 - 5:08 PM, said:

All the delays on the Helix are HX level... They were all made from scratch for the Helix. Actually, of all the effects on the Helix, all of them are completely new except the reverbs and the 6 HD wahs.

http://line6.com/support/topic/23027-transparent-boostod/?p=175222

 

Can anyone at Line 6 chime in and confirm if the Wahs are legacy or HX versions?

 

thank you

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Hey thanks that info...

 

Just pulled up this post...

 

phil_m, on 28 Sept 2016 - 5:08 PM, said:

All the delays on the Helix are HX level... They were all made from scratch for the Helix. Actually, of all the effects on the Helix, all of them are completely new except the reverbs and the 6 HD wahs.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/23027-transparent-boostod/?p=175222

 

Can anyone at Line 6 chiem in and confirm it the Wahs are legacy or HX versions?

 

thank you

 

Nice research! Then I guess theoretically those wahs should be placed under the "Legacy" heading under both documentation and hardware, and moved to the "Legacy" part of the effect selection list on all Helix/HX hardware and software. That also begs the question of is it worth upgrading those wahs or providing new HX equivalents or alternatives at some point? My vote would be "yes".

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Whatever......we will know it when 2.5 arrives, its not that important.

haha Nothing to see here.... Yes Not important... just killing time whilst the the FW2.5 page saying 'nothing here yet'... but when it does land i will have already done some background digging about the new (old) FX.

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Nice research! Then I guess theoretically those wahs should be placed under the "Legacy" heading under both documentation and hardware, and moved to the "Legacy" part of the effect selection list on all Helix/HX hardware and software. That also begs the question of is it worth upgrading those wahs or providing new HX equivalents or alternatives at some point? My vote would be "yes"

My vote would be Yes too... if they are HD versions... 

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Digital Igloo on The Gear Page

 

June 12th 2015

At launch, all reverb models are based on HD models, but rebuilt in HX. They sound notably better in Helix tho'. Eight of the ten wahs came from HD as well. All other FX models were created from scratch in HX.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/20130691/

 

july 2nd 2015

We felt that two HX wahs weren't enough, and the eight HD wah models were fairly simple to rebuild in HX (unlike models in other categories).

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/20226571/

 

April 8th 2016

The only reason we ported 8 out of 10 wahs and the reverbs from HD (everything else is built from scratch in HX) is because we simply ran out of time. Ideally, everything in Helix would've been brand new. I'm not morally opposed to porting M-Class/HD models to HX, but we'd much rather make new stuff.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/21734256/

 

 

Since then we have got loads of new stuff and now the bonus of legacy FX too..... thanks line 6 and digital igloo for seeing to all of that

 

So which 2 Wahs are HX?

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Re the wahs, personally, I think a simple resonance control for each of them would add a lot more than the subtle differences between modeling generations.

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The 2 HX wahs -

 

UK and Teardrop.

 

BenAdrian -  TGP

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/23035076/

 

Digital Igloo - TGP

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/20267812/

The Reverbs and eight of the ten wahs are HD models rebuilt within the HX engine. We also rebuilt Doom, Epic, and Elektrik, but they're favorite custom hybrids that, IIRC, utilize some HX components—will have to confirm with sound design on Monday.

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@jaybee77 - really thanks for your replies! :) That list in the pdf file of HX FX manual (page 16 and further) is interesting! But it feeds a bit my initial question about a possible problem of duplicate names.......All the Legacy reverbs in the HX FX manual list do have the same name on first glance as the ones that are in Helix 2.3 now......so.......if Line 6 moves these to the new Legacy folder and add the original legacy reverbs, all the names of the reverbs are duplicate :) or am I missing something? Do the “real†legacy reverbs (from the M-series or whatever) have different names than Hall, etc?

 

PS. Interesting to see how much time and energy I spend on uninteresting and soon solved issues. Haha :)

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@jaybee77 - really thanks for your replies! :) That list in the pdf file of HX FX manual (page 16 and further) is interesting! But it feeds a bit my initial question about a possible problem duplicate names.......All the Legacy reverbs in the HX FX manual list do have the same name on first glance as the ones that are in Helix 2.3 now......so.......if Line 6 moves these to the new Legacy folder and add the original legacy reverbs, all the names of the reverbs are duplicate :) or am I missing something? Do the “real†legacy reverbs (from the M-series or whatever) have different names than Hall, etc?

Sure the answer is that  "At launch, all reverb models are based on HD models, but rebuilt in HX." Digital Igloo

 

That means the 12 reverbs currently in FW2.3 are HD Legacy Models and Not HX, thus they will be classed as Legacy in FW2.5.

No new legacy reverbs will be moved to helix as helix already contains them.

 

Those 12 reverbs in FW2.3 will be moved into a legacy folder, and the 5 new HX reverbs will be in the Mono/Stereo folders...  for now there wont be any duplicates e.g. there wont be a reverb in both the legacy and mono/stereo folders with the name of Plate, as the Plate reverb is an HD reverb and thus will only be in the legacy folder.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

 

In the future Line 6 might decide to release an HX Plate reverb, but im guessing to avoid confusion they wont give the HX plate reverb the name Plate!

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Sure the answer is that  "At launch, all reverb models are based on HD models, but rebuilt in HX." Digital Igloo

 

That means the 12 reverbs currently in FW2.3 are HD Legacy Models and Not HX, thus they will be classed as Legacy in FW2.5.

No new legacy reverbs will be moved to helix as helix already contains them.

 

Those 12 reverbs in FW2.3 will be moved into a legacy folder, and the 5 new HX reverbs will be in the Mono/Stereo folders...  for now there wont be any duplicates e.g. there wont be a reverb in both the legacy and mono/stereo folders with the name of Plate, as the Plate reverb is an HD reverb and thus will only be in the legacy folder.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

 

In the future Line 6 might decide to release an HX Plate reverb, but im guessing to avoid confusion they wont give the HX plate reverb the name Plate!

So in 2.5 there will be no direct import from reverbs of the M-series? But Silverhead speaks about 2 different models of the same thing.

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So in 2.5 there will be no direct import from reverbs of the M-series?

Exactly - wait for 2.5 to arrive all will make sense..

 

like you said

we will know it when 2.5 arrives, its not that important.

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Exactly - wait for 2.5 to arrive all will make sense..

 

like you said

we will know it when 2.5 arrives, its not that important.

ok, you’re right, I will leave the fuzz I make out of it.

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So in 2.5 there will be no direct import from reverbs of the M-series? But Silverhead speaks about 2 different models of the same thing.

It gets a bit complicated. The reverbs in Helix prior to v2.50 are based on HD modeling technology and simply ported to Helix. That's what has now been done to all the other Legacy HD effects in v2.50. Accordingly the HD Reverb models have been moved to join the others in the Legacy category. The new reverbs in v2.50 are brand new and use the HX modeling technology; you will find those in the Stereo section of the Reverbs.

 

All other FX in Helix (except for a few Wah models apparently) are brand new FX based on HX modeling. For instance, all the Delay FX are brand new and they will stay in the existing Mono/Stereo sections when you look at the Delays in v2.50. There will be a new section called Legacy where all the newly imported HD Delay FX will live. When I spoke of two different models of the same FX I was referring to some physical analog pedals that Line 6 has modelled using both HD and HX technologies. You will now find those FX models in both the Legacy (HD modeling) and the Mono/Stereo (HX modeling) sections.

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I wonder if the legacy version of the helix model would be less dsp?

Yes that would be expected, gives you options if you hit a DSP limit to use a less intensive FX from the legacy group.

 

Also not all legacy FX are available in stereo -

 

taken from the HXFX manual

 

Legacy effects models vary in behavior, just as on the classic Line 6 effects from

where these models originated.

• Legacy Distortion, Dynamics & Pitch/Synth effects are mono.

• Legacy Modulation & Delay effects vary in that some are mono, some stereo,

and some mono-in/stereo-out, where adjusting the effect's Mix parameter

can narrow the stereo image that is fed into them. It is best to experiment

with these effects and tweak the Mix parameter to achieve the desired stereo

output results.

• Legacy Filter and Reverb effects are stereo.

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Regarding the wahs, I believe the reason the wahs that were ported over from the HD series aren't in the Legacy folder is that they have been modified in the Helix version. The HD/M-series wahs only had Position and Mix parameters. In the Helix, they added the Fc Low and Fc High (Fc = Cutoff Frequency) parameters to those models.

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It gets a bit complicated. The reverbs in Helix prior to v2.50 are based on HD modeling technology and simply ported to Helix. That's what has now been done to all the other Legacy HD effects in v2.50. Accordingly the HD Reverb models have been moved to join the others in the Legacy category. The new reverbs in v2.50 are brand new and use the HX modeling technology; you will find those in the Stereo section of the Reverbs.

All other FX in Helix (except for a few Wah models apparently) are brand new FX based on HX modeling. For instance, all the Delay FX are brand new and they will stay in the existing Mono/Stereo sections when you look at the Delays in v2.50. There will be a new section called Legacy where all the newly imported HD Delay FX will live. When I spoke of two different models of the same FX I was referring to some physical analog pedals that Line 6 has modelled using both HD and HX technologies. You will now find those FX models in both the Legacy (HD modeling) and the Mono/Stereo (HX modeling) sections.

Thanks for clarifying! I misinterpreted you words, but now I begin to understand. There are now in the 2.3 Helix: HD and HX effects. The HD are Legacy effects. The 77 effects from older devices are also HD effects and will be placed in the new Legacy folder in 2.5. The HD effects from 2.3 will also be placed there.

 

I thought you meant by “two models of the same device†: legacy in Helix vs legacy not in Helix, but you meant HX models vs HD models.

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...

 

In the future Line 6 might decide to release an HX Plate reverb, but im guessing to avoid confusion they wont give the HX plate reverb the name Plate!

 

"Gold Plate", "Blue Plate Special" (old school reverb, really old), "Platechtonic"?   :D

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Thank you to you too. your work over past couple years has been exemplary...

 

Just a Note:

 

There is a Chandler Tube driver in FW2.3 called Valve Driver, the legacy version in FW2.5 being Tube Drive.

 

And there is a HX Ping Pong delay in FW2.3 and a Legacy version in FW2.5

 

Also whilst the Adriatic Swell could be classed as being similar to the Auto Vol echo, People are saying they find them different.

 

The Legacy Modulation FX contains Analog Flanger and AC Flanger, both are based on the MXR 117 Flanger

There is an HX version called Gray Flanger in FW2.3 

https://line6.com/m13/images/m13_modelgallery02.pdf

 

Similarly the Legacy Modulation FX contains Jet Flanger and 80A Flanger - both are based on the A/DA Flanger -

There is an HX version called Harmonic Flanger

 

Lastly Helix has a Pan option in Volume/Pan Models, and there is a legacy Panner in FW2.5 which is an L6 Original

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