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HonestOpinion

Eliminate Legacy effects category and include "Legacy" effects alongside existing HX effects with special designation

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Alright already, laughing my a$$ off. I get the point, the new firmware is not out yet, as they say "too soon?". So much for trying to discuss firmware implementation this close to delivery.  I know people aren't seriously concerned they won't get their new toy at all if Line6 sees this thread and decides, "oh yeah, he's right, let's delay it for a few weeks so we can change that"? As silverhead pointed out, dream on. There appears to be a certain shall we say "enthusiasm" about this update that is starting to look like a Black Friday sale at the local Walmart. Not wanting to be trampled in the stampede I will refrain from further commentary until after delivery. I'm psyched to get this one too folks, can't a brother make a friendly suggestion regarding the construction without everyone thinking he is trying to tear the building down and start again? I know we don't have it in hand yet but you don't have to be a psychic or beta tester to have a response or a suggestion about a fairly detailed description of what is coming. It does shed some light on why Line6 tends to keep upcoming update info close to the vest. From here on in until delivery I will cease looking into the crystal ball and suspend all critical thinking or extrapolation. It's all good people, sheesh, talk about first world problems. No offence taken at any of this, happy to provide some diversion as we wait for the latest EXCELLENT, I repeat EXCELLENT firmware release. Lord knows there will be a lull and doldrums to follow until the frenzy picks up again for the next one. PEACE! Oh, and btw, can we get rid of that "Legacy" category (puts on flak jacket, ducks and hides).   ;)  :P  :D

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I'm not that stupid either. ;-)

 

 

Sorry, Just trying to help. No stupido thoughts intended...

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The Legacy Indicator appears to the right of the Legacy category Block Types in the Scribble Strips.

 

See: the HXFX User Manual 2.50 PDF, Pages 11 and 16. 

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Hey man, this is 2018..."predictive complaining" is the future. Besides, with all these pre-conceived solutions desperately in search of problems... we might never finish b1tching if we don't start early.

Hi, I went to give your comment a thumbs up, but my fat finger hit thumbs down and now I can't seem to undo it?! ...Sorry

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Hi, I went to give your comment a thumbs up, but my fat finger hit thumbs down and now I can't seem to undo it?! ...Sorry

No worries! ðŸ‘

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I think we discovered the “controversial†part of the update!

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I think we discovered the “controversial†part of the update!

Just one? Everything is controversial around here... hell, the only thing you'll get everybody to agree on is that it should have been released already. 😉

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Just one? Everything is controversial around here... hell, the only thing you'll get everybody to agree on is that it should have been released already. 😉

Not here, not me. I prefer my lollipop to be delayed. 😂

 

J/K.

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One man's "sublime" is another's "absurd". I feel for the engineers...if I had to decide which group of nutty, opinionated guitar players to placate, it would drive me to drink...especially now that the critiques start rolling in before anyone's actually gotten their hands on the product, lol.

But you're not actually calling me names, are you? Not that I care anyway, just to know if I got it.

And just in case, you are aware that I was actually supporting their decision of creating the legacy category, right? Once again, not being a native English speaker, I second guess myself, writing and understanding

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Alright already, laughing my a$$ off. I get the point, the new firmware is not out yet, as they say "too soon?". So much for trying to discuss firmware implementation this close to delivery.  I know people aren't seriously concerned they won't get their new toy at all if Line6 sees this thread and decides, "oh yeah, he's right, let's delay it for a few weeks so we can change that"? As silverhead pointed out, dream on. There appears to be a certain shall we say "enthusiasm" about this update that is starting to look like a Black Friday sale at the local Walmart. Not wanting to be trampled in the stampede I will refrain from further commentary until after delivery. I'm psyched to get this one too folks, can't a brother make a friendly suggestion regarding the construction without everyone thinking he is trying to tear the building down and start again? I know we don't have it in hand yet but you don't have to be a psychic or beta tester to have a response or a suggestion about a fairly detailed description of what is coming. It does shed some light on why Line6 tends to keep upcoming update info close to the vest. From here on in until delivery I will cease looking into the crystal ball and suspend all critical thinking or extrapolation. It's all good people, sheesh, talk about first world problems. No offence taken at any of this, happy to provide some diversion as we wait for the latest EXCELLENT, I repeat EXCELLENT firmware release. Lord knows there will be a lull and doldrums to follow until the frenzy picks up again for the next one. PEACE! Oh, and btw, can we get rid of that "Legacy" category (puts on flak jacket, ducks and hides).   ;)  :P  :D

FWIW i agree with you.  Wouldnt have been a big deal to put it in 2.51 if needed. I think you hit the nail on the head when you semi said people being worried that they may not get their free stuff NOW!  It always amazed me how demanding people get over software updates. As if they couldnt live without it for a second longer.

 

When you first started this thread i thought back to a time when i didnt understand what "legacy" stuff was. That term meant to me that it was a companys stuff that didnt sound as good, or their failed attempt...and if you think about it, in a way they ARE saying its their second tier software.

 

I dont know, distortion is distortion. There shouldnt be a need to point out the time period it came from, or anything else they may be trying to elude to by using the term "legacy". What do we care? 

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Get Him!

DNlCOt0.png

 

LOL, don't you worry, that update is coming soon. "I can feel it coming in the air tonight." Somehow it seems less threatening when the guy leading the mob in front-center looks like Phil Collins.

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It's a museum (or library, or parthenon), not a house. A house icon is silkscreened onto the HOME button.

Do all of you have huge marble columns in front of your mansions? Maybe we should charge more!  :D

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It's a museum (or library, or parthenon), not a house. A house icon is silkscreened onto the HOME button.

Do all of you have huge marble columns in front of your mansions? Maybe we should charge more!  :D

 

how did you know?

 

24be27f51d9c8d21f67cdbe6122e04aa--huge-h

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Is there a further mono/stereo folder under legacy or are they only mono version of the effects?

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Is there a further mono/stereo folder under legacy or are they only mono version of the effects?

 

The Legacy effects aren't further subdivided into mono and stereo folders, but they maintain the same sort of mono/stereo operation as they did in the M-series. All distortions are mono, and all filters and reverbs are stereo. There are some mono in/stereo out mods and delays, etc.

 

From the manual:

 

7ee6cf79-8597-469a-88bb-5adc61a69143.png

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I have been thinking about how I use my Helix and just wanted to put this out there and see how other people feel about it. Rather than Line6 adding a "Legacy" category I would much rather they maintain the current effect categories, e.g. "Modulation", Distortion, Delay, etc. and just append the legacy effect's name with an asterisk, a different color or font, or some other way of indicating that they are legacy. This makes much more sense to me than for example adding a "Legacy" list.

 

I am just considering how I use my Helix and when I, for example, go looking for a distortion effect, I would prefer to see all of them in one place, HX and legacy, and be able to select the one that best fits my needs. Having to go into a separate master list - "Legacy",  just seems like a poor way to navigate for effects spread out across many categories and will probably make them less likely to be used. Ultimately as long as a legacy effect is differentiated visually from an HX effect, I don't mind it being in the current set of block lists it pertains to(Distortion, Mod, etc.) along with all of my other HX effects. Don't want to come off as sounding critical here about this fantastic update, I am very grateful for the addition of the legacy effects. I am just wondering if the method for navigating to the new "Legacy" effects could be improved upon. I think they will get more usage if they appear, clearly marked, in the same lists as the HX effects, and be much simpler to navigate to. It will also be much simpler to compare similar effects if they are all in one list, e.g. distortions, rather than to have to jump to a completely separate category to listen to the legacy distortions.

 

I guess I am proposing that the Legacy category be eliminated and that Legacy effects just be clearly indicated in some other manner but included in the existing categories of HX effects. How are other folks feeling about this?

 

Update: Added this to IdeaScale.

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Include-Legacy-effects-with-HX-effects-with-a-special-indicator/921132-23508#idea-tab-comments

 

I'm with'ya on this.  When I'm looking/ auditioning a reverb, delay or whatever, I not only don't I care if it's legacy or whatever... I generally have no idea nor do I care.  I'm scrolling through listening...  now I apparently have two lists to scroll through instead of one.   It's not a big deal, just seems silly to me.  If (like me) you never owned one of the Legacy devices, having them on a separate list seems like a pointless concept.  They are all models.  

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Agree. Even if you did own one, why is that helpful? I'd much rather each effect Tyler be divided into mono and stereo, which *does* matter.

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Back from the dead, and I agree completely. It doesn't matter if an effect is "Legacy" or anything else; I just need to know mono, stereo, and how it sounds. I'm on 2.70, and it still sucks to have to go into legacy to find other effects and still not know if they are stereo, etc.

I've never owned an M3, M5, M19, M213 or anything else from L6, other than my 85-year old Flextone II XL (still going strong BTW) and an old original POD that I lost at a frat party gig gone bad back in the 60's or 80's or whenever the hell it was that it came out. Couldn't care less where the effects in the HX effects come from as long as they sound good.  :)

 

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On 1/30/2018 at 11:33 AM, HonestOpinion said:

I have been thinking about how I use my Helix and just wanted to put this out there and see how other people feel about it. Rather than Line6 adding a "Legacy" category I would much rather they maintain the current effect categories, e.g. "Modulation", Distortion, Delay, etc. and just append the legacy effect's name with an asterisk, a different color or font, or some other way of indicating that they are legacy. This makes much more sense to me than for example adding a "Legacy" list.

 

I am just considering how I use my Helix and when I, for example, go looking for a distortion effect, I would prefer to see all of them in one place, HX and legacy, and be able to select the one that best fits my needs. Having to go into a separate master list - "Legacy",  just seems like a poor way to navigate for effects spread out across many categories and will probably make them less likely to be used. Ultimately as long as a legacy effect is differentiated visually from an HX effect, I don't mind it being in the current set of block lists it pertains to(Distortion, Mod, etc.) along with all of my other HX effects. Don't want to come off as sounding critical here about this fantastic update, I am very grateful for the addition of the legacy effects. I am just wondering if the method for navigating to the new "Legacy" effects could be improved upon. I think they will get more usage if they appear, clearly marked, in the same lists as the HX effects, and be much simpler to navigate to. It will also be much simpler to compare similar effects if they are all in one list, e.g. distortions, rather than to have to jump to a completely separate category to listen to the legacy distortions.

 

I guess I am proposing that the Legacy category be eliminated and that Legacy effects just be clearly indicated in some other manner but included in the existing categories of HX effects. How are other folks feeling about this?

 

Update: Added this to IdeaScale.

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Include-Legacy-effects-with-HX-effects-with-a-special-indicator/921132-23508#idea-tab-comments

Absolutely. This was the first thing that stood out to me as an unfortunate UI choice. If I want modulation I just want what sounds good for the song, I don't care where in the Line 6 history the effects came from.

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On 2/2/2018 at 9:34 AM, klangmaler said:

I see. Updates won't be free furthermore, 'cause Helix users are stinking rich  :D

So the Helix hardware is now a subscription gateway to the software. If this is true I'm still within the return window. I stopped upgrading Adobe Creative Suite and buying Adobe products over their transforming into a subscription service. There comes a time when people have to simply not support this kind of business behavior.

 

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16 minutes ago, optofonik said:

So the Helix hardware is now a subscription gateway to the software. If this is true I'm still within the return window. I stopped upgrading Adobe Creative Suite and buying Adobe products over their transforming into a subscription service. There comes a time when people have to simply not support this kind of business behavior.

 

If you go back a few posts from the post you are quoting and read it in context you will see that it was a joke.

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6 hours ago, jonandtice said:

If you go back a few posts from the post you are quoting and read it in context you will see that it was a joke.

Missed the old school ASCII emoticon.

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I think of "Legacy" as euphemism "Obsolete" or "Waste Bin". You can find something useful there but still it should be the place when old plugins should be placed and finally trown away.
I hope I will see threre some current plugins from Mono and Stereo folders when better versions are ready. ;)
My concern is that I observe if plugin within the plugin or software is done once it rearly is revised. If revised, some customers starts to complain "Oh, I liked the crappy one better" :D

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Entertaining looking back at this topic as at the time we knew Legacy effects were coming any day in the next firmware update but hadn't tried them yet with the soon to be added new "Legacy" category. Discussion got pretty animated and seeing as how the new firmware with the Legacy category had not even come out yet I  rested my case until we all had a chance to check it out. Just wanted to follow-up after about a year of using the Legacy effects in a separate category and I have to say I would still prefer to see them moved in with an altered look with the rest of their respective HX effects in the existing HX categories e.g. Distortion, Modulation, Delay, etc..

 

Having to navigate into the separate Legacy category just means I use Legacy effects infrequently and it still seems like an unnecessary extra few steps to check them out. Makes it impossible to spin through one list and quickly compare the Legacy and HX effects at the same time. Would like to see for example all of my distortion options, HX and Legacy,  under the "Distortion" category. Same for the Legacy effects in all the other categories. Just indicate visually which ones are Legacy and which ones aren't (e.g. highlight, brackets, reverse font color, italics, asterisk, whatevah).  Vote 'er up! 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Move-Legacy-Effects-in-with-the-rest-and-make-em-look-different/921132-23508#idea-tab-comments

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"The instrument has yet to be invented that can measure my indifference"

- Hawkeye Pierce 

 

;)....ymmv

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What I would like is some kind of designation to tell me whether the legacy effects are mono, stereo or mono in stereo out. Like M, S, M/S so I don't have to go back to the manual all the time. That would help me.

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6 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

Entertaining looking back at this topic as at the time we knew Legacy effects were coming any day in the next firmware update but hadn't tried them yet with the soon to be added new "Legacy" category. Discussion got pretty animated and seeing as how the new firmware with the Legacy category had not even come out yet I  rested my case until we all had a chance to check it out. Just wanted to follow-up after about a year of using the Legacy effects in a separate category and I have to say I would still prefer to see them moved in with an altered look with the rest of their respective HX effects in the existing HX categories e.g. Distortion, Modulation, Delay, etc..

 

Having to navigate into the separate Legacy category just means I use Legacy effects infrequently and it still seems like an unnecessary extra few steps to check them out. Makes it impossible to spin through one list and quickly compare the Legacy and HX effects at the same time. Would like to see for example all of my distortion options, HX and Legacy,  under the "Distortion" category. Same for the Legacy effects in all the other categories. Just indicate visually which ones are Legacy and which ones aren't (e.g. highlight, brackets, reverse font color, italics, asterisk, whatevah).  Vote 'er up! 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Move-Legacy-Effects-in-with-the-rest-and-make-em-look-different/921132-23508#idea-tab-comments

 

Apparently, I voted for it when you first posted it on Ideascale. Still a good idea.

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I think they should go even further the other direction. Every category should be further broken down by firmware revision number. If you want a certain effect, you have to know which update it was included in. If you go to the wrong one then you’ll still be able to see the effect you are looking for in the list, but it will be greyed out. It will not tell you why it is greyed out. You have to keep going back through the firmware revisions until you find the right one. Eh?

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1 minute ago, Verne-Bunsen said:

I think they should go even further the other direction. Every category should be further broken down by firmware revision number. If you want a certain effect, you have to know which update it was included in. If you go to the wrong one then you’ll still be able to see the effect you are looking for in the list, but it will be greyed out. It will not tell you why it is greyed out. You have to keep going back through the firmware revisions until you find the right one. Eh?

 

You're so silly! :-)

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4 hours ago, brue58ski said:

What I would like is some kind of designation to tell me whether the legacy effects are mono, stereo or mono in stereo out. Like M, S, M/S so I don't have to go back to the manual all the time. That would help me.

If its stereo, there is a little 'infinity' icon (sideways #8), if its mono, I don't think that icon is there, in HX Edit

 

I could be wrong if that's not what your referring to

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I thought that the Legacy was the designator for the M-Series FX to port over.  I have used them when necessary.  They seem to use more processor than the native HX blocks. 

As far as were they are I am OK with anyplace as long as I can get to them.

 

Thanks

 

Dennis

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6 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

"The instrument has yet to be invented that can measure my indifference"

- Hawkeye Pierce 

 

;)....ymmv

 

“To remain indifferent to the challenges we face is indefensible. If the goal is noble, whether or not it is realized within our lifetime is largely irrelevant. What we must do therefore is to strive and persevere and never give up.”
Dalai Lama XIV

 

“Desire is half of life; indifference is half of death.”
Kahlil Gibran, Sand and Foam

 

“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life

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3 minutes ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

“To remain indifferent to the challenges we face is indefensible. If the goal is noble, whether or not it is realized within our lifetime is largely irrelevant. What we must do therefore is to strive and persevere and never give up.”
Dalai Lama XIV

 

“Desire is half of life; indifference is half of death.”
Kahlil Gibran, Sand and Foam

 

“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life

 

"Pitiless Indifference" would have made a great 90's grunge album title...

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