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rrobbone

Sustainer/Sustainiac recreated in Helix?

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I did a few searches, but I couldn't find a definitive answer, so....

 

Has anyone discovered how to recreate the continuous sustained note/harmonic/feedback produced by guitars with Sustainers and Sustainiacs in a Helix floor unit? I'm going to revamp my guitar line up and it would be nice if I didn't have to buy an extra guitar to get that effect.

 

Would a Variax equipped guitar make a difference in this instance? 

 

Thanks in advance! 

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I did a few searches, but I couldn't find a definitive answer, so....

 

Has anyone discovered how to recreate the continuous sustained note/harmonic/feedback produced by guitars with Sustainers and Sustainiacs in a Helix floor unit? I'm going to revamp my guitar line up and it would be nice if I didn't have to buy an extra guitar to get that effect.

 

Would a Variax equipped guitar make a difference in this instance?

 

Thanks in advance!

A Variax isn't gonna help you, nor will anything else. Those pickups work by projecting magnetic pulses at the strings, forcing them to vibrate. No digital effect can reproduce that...the string is either moving, or its not.

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A Variax isn't gonna help you, nor will anything else. Those pickups work by projecting magnetic pulses at the strings, forcing them to vibrate. No digital effect can reproduce that...the string is either moving, or its not.

As i've heard, the Digitech FreqOut does exactly this, even if it's impossible

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As i've heard, the Digitech FreqOut does exactly this, even if it's impossible

News to me... but I suppose anything's possible. From it's description though, that pedal creates feedback at low volumes. Seems like it's not quite the same as forcibly inducing a string vibration for infinite sustain... then again I've never used the Freqout, so perhaps I'm wrong.

 

Either way, a Variax still ain't gonna help.

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The FreqOut is a very cool pedal, but even it can’t do impossible stuff. It wrings out every last drop of sustain your guitar will give it and makes your guitar sound convincingly like it’s feeding back, but when the string vibration decays the sound stops. Abruptly.

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Yep Freq-Out (I have one) will sustain the note or a harmonic of. But I don't think it does what a sustainic pickup does. I don't have the pickup yet but want one. As far as Helix being able to copy it I believe Cru is right. Don't think so.

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The FreqOut is a very cool pedal, but even it can’t do impossible stuff. It wrings out every last drop of sustain your guitar will give it and makes your guitar sound convincingly like it’s feeding back, but when the string vibration decays the sound stops. Abruptly.

That's kinda what I thought. I had a Fernandez Strat knock-off years ago with a sustainer in it...you really could essentially hold a note forever, like an eBow. Don't see how a pedal could reproduce that.

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That's about what I thought the answer would be. Looks like I'll be adding another guitar to the pile. Darn.

 

Thanks for the replies, folks! 

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That's about what I thought the answer would be. Looks like I'll be adding another guitar to the pile. Darn.

 

Thanks for the replies, folks! 

I replaced the neck pickup on my Music Man JPX with a Sustainiac.  I included boch Sustainiac control switches, so it gives a bit more control than most guitars that have a built-in sustainer.  It works beautifully, no additional guitar required.  I also added midi capability with preset up-down switches and a bunch of other stuff.  It is now the guitar of my dreams, and I'm planning on selling several of my other guitars.

post-506565-0-06223300-1517711048_thumb.jpg

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I've downloaded a couple of patches for the Helix that were quite good.  One I downloaded off the Line 6 custom tone site.  The other I paid 5 bucks to Chad Boston for.  It was by far the best.  I had to adjust other aspects of the tone to suit my guitar but the sustain feature was much more predictable and controllable than the old Boss pedal I have.  The principle was basically to use one of the pitch/synth models in tandem with a gain pedal and expression pedal which is used to dial in the amount, duration, and timing of the feedback.  Sounded pretty convincing to me.  It's funny that this thread popped up as I have been meaning to revisit the preset just recently if I can find it.

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I replaced the neck pickup on my Music Man JPX with a Sustainiac.  I included boch Sustainiac control switches, so it gives a bit more control than most guitars that have a built-in sustainer.  It works beautifully, no additional guitar required.  I also added midi capability with preset up-down switches and a bunch of other stuff.  It is now the guitar of my dreams, and I'm planning on selling several of my other guitars.

 

Nice Music Man! 

 

I am also trying to get to a point where my needs are covered in as few guitars as possible. I've just about got it to that point, but I know I want a Sustainiac and I'm still missing a guitar with a FR trem. I'm planning on picking up a Schecter to cover those two needs. I usually just cut out and build whatever I need, but the parts list I had in mind for that particular build gets pretty close to what it costs for a similarly equipped new guitar.

 

I'm also looking at a Shuriken to fill the rest. After that, I'll reassess and sell off everything I'm not going to use. I have a bass and three self built customs that I'll not be parting with, but the rest will be sold off. I want to be under five guitars and two basses.

 

Between those, Guitar Rig, my Zoom multi, and a new Helix - I should be covered for a while.

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Of course...this also does feedback simulation and so much more. Pretty Sweet!!

 

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This can be done on a Helix...pretty neat idea

 

 

Still hoping for an effect like the FreqOut to come to the Helix. I'll bet the players using IEMs feel even more strongly about it. Coincidentally I just learned the solo from an oldie but a goodie, BOC's "Don't Fear The Reaper" and was looking to nail that long sustained note coming out of the solo. Cool video! Not to nitpick but for anyone trying to replicate this I just wanted to mention I think the guy in the video misspoke and he is actually using a 5th above the octave, not the seventh he states in the video. Assuming the Axe-FX is setting the pitch block intervals in half-step semi-tones, nineteen would be seven half-steps above the octave(19 semi-tones total; 12 for the octave and 7 for the 5th) making it a fifth above the octave.

 

If anyone has some more ideas on how to get a long sustained feedback/harmonic out of the Helix other than the traditional methods of perhaps getting the right setting on a compressor or overdrive, cranking things up, pick harmonic technique, shaking the hell out of the string, working the whammy, facing your pickup into your monitor/amp, etc., I would love to hear them.

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If anyone has some more ideas on how to get a long sustain out of the Helix other than the traditional method of perhaps getting the right setting on a compressor or overdrive, cranking things up, shaking the hell out of the string, working the whammy, facing your pickup into your monitor/amp, etc., I would love to hear them.

Hang a 5 lb dumbbell from the headstock...😉

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Well, I do know there is some idea out there, I have not seen any mention to it. It is called somewhere "spectral hold". I think the idea is to synthesize an antificial sound with the spectral content of the incoming signal at the moment the player pushes certain "hold" switch. Now I cannot remember where I have seen it, but I know I have used it to extend certain sound  in time. The result is similar to enable a very radical reverb to extend certain sound with insufficient sustain.

 

I don't know if the "FreqOut" device works like this or not.

 

EDIT: I've found it. The idea comes from Cockos, implemented in Reaper (A DAW, by the way the one used by Line6 to test Helix Native  :) ), it is a JS plug-in (therefore Open Source code!) and it is called "Spectral Hold".

 

This might be a nice idea to implement in Helix, the computational requirements should not be demanding ;)

 

LATER EDIT: Of course usign "Spectral Hold" in a DAW is a lot more flexible. The live (Helix) version would need a switch to hold and some "decay" parameter to fade-out the sound once the player stops pushing the "hold" switch. Or a way to control the output level using an expression pedal... I am sure it is doable, not very complex adn interesting for a few users.

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Hang a 5 lb dumbbell from the headstock...

 

LOL, funny you should mention it, as you may know they actually do make a less extreme version of your suggestion for headstocks that is supposed to add sustain. Great idea if you want to add some neck dive and an unsightly appendage to your guitar.  ;)

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FatFingerG?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5M3MvoOS2QIVQQOGCh3lkgacEAQYASABEgJLv_D_BwE

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LOL, funny you should mention it, as you may know they actually do make a less extreme version of your suggestion for headstocks that is supposed to add sustain. Great idea if you want to add some neck dive and an unsightly appendage to your guitar. ;)

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FatFingerG?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5M3MvoOS2QIVQQOGCh3lkgacEAQYASABEgJLv_D_BwE

Yeah, used to be made by Groove Tube, then Fender bought them at some point.

 

Don't know that they really do much to increase sustain everywhere, but if you've got a Strat suffering from dead spot-itis (don't they all, somewhere? lol) in a frequently used location, a little extra mass on the headstock can, if not eliminate the dead note, at least move it elsewhere to a less traveled spot. Sometimes, depending on how bad the offending note is, you don't even need something that big and silly looking. I've got one guitar for which a capo on the headstock mitigates the problem nicely... and at least a capo looks like it sorta belongs there, lol.

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On 2/6/2018 at 9:42 AM, HonestOpinion said:

 

Still hoping for an effect like the FreqOut to come to the Helix. I

 

So do I ! I'm using the Helix LT for a few weeks and I'm amazed by that machine. I'm about to throw away my old analog pedal rig, but there is an exception, the FreQout.

There is no better way to end a solo - or even a song - that holding a note with that manageable feedback. Moreover, it sounds so natural, without need to stick the guitar on the cab, turning your back on the audience. Hope such an effect will appear in the next firmwares.

Waiting, I think I'm going to keep the pedal and insert it in the Helix FX loop (bright idea they had at Line 6). It' just more stuff to travel with and plug on rehearsal or stage, just for a few seconds per song.

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