HX Effects 4 cable method

[antcinq]

Just opened the box today hoping that this little toy will be "just what the doctor ordered".  I've been running my effects through my effects loop on my Two Rock Gainmaster 35 for about 6 years (just delay, verb and chorus).  I'd like the HX to replace those and also give some me additional effects either before or after the amp.  I know it can "do it", but whenever I plug it in according the set up, my tone is sucked out of the amp and the volume drops lots.  I read the manual and there is a statement that says this:  "There are even templates to get you started".  Elsewhere in the manual they say to look for "4CM" on effects.  I understand the concept of the 4 cable method, but can't figure out the routing inside of the HX.  So a few questions:

 

1.  Where are the templates?

2.  Do I need to put something in the front of my pedal chain so the delay, verb, etc will run through my effects loop on the amp?

3.  What am I missing?  I know it is obvious but glad I didn't take apart my old pedal board just yet.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Tony

 

[antcinq]

I figured this out concerning #2 and #3 above.  In the chain, put compression, distortion, etc. then insert the FX then run delay, verb, etc after that.  Also, don't make the FX a switch.  That way you don't give up a stompbox on the pedal board.

 

I never did find the 4CM examples.  Loving the new toy...

[VirtualGuitars]

4 Cable Method (4CM)

Cable #1 Guitar to HX Effects Guitar In

Cable #2 HX Effects Send Loop 1 to Amp Main Input

Cable #3 Amp FX Send Loop to HX Effects Return Loop 1

Cable #4 HX Effects 1/4" Left (mono) Out to Amp FX Return Loop

 

There is a template for the 4CM and the 7CM on the Helix under the Templates setlist. Not sure about the HX Effects.

[phil_m]

Have you updated the firmware? If not, you need to update the firmware to 2.50 and do the factory reset procedure (hold down the two switches in the lower right hand corner while powering up) to get all the factory presets and templates to show up.

[Cortez09m]

Once your updated to 2.50 look at the presets and scroll up banks 11 & 12. There you will find presets that start off with 4CM: open the signal path an you can see how the effects are routed. 

[antcinq]

Thanks.  I didn't know about the factory reset buttons as I did update to 2.50.  As mentioned, I did figure out the settings in the HX Effects.  Sounds great.  I've got a few "pedal boards" set up and I "think" I can save those patches on the editor, then do a factory reset, then drag those presets back onto the HX so I don't have to redo them?  Is that correct?

[HazyJMac]

Hey there antcinq,

 

I am having the same volume loss, tone suck problem. Do you know what you did to resolve your issue? In my case the unit sounds great in the loop, great in front of the amp, but when using 4cm the volume drops and tone suffers, even when using a 4cm template. 

 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated¡

 

Thanks

[codamedia]

7 hours ago, HazyJMac said:

In my case the unit sounds great in the loop, great in front of the amp, but when using 4cm the volume drops and tone suffers, even when using a 4cm template. 

 

Trying changing the global setting for the FX Loop in the HX you are using.... It is likely defaulted to instrument, try changing it to LINE. 

[HazyJMac]

Thanks for the reply.

 

Wound up doing a factory reset and now using the 4cm template all is well. I must have screwed something up setting wise early on. 

 

Thanks

[jeremyburkett]

I'm curious about this too.  (I'll be getting my HX effects in a couple of weeks and have been doing my homework on this so that I'm ready to be up and running as soon as it arrives!!)  

 

I understand what you're saying about not assigning the send or return to a footswitch, so that you don't give up a spot....but I'm still a little confused about whether or not I will have to "give up" a block overall.  I've seen tutorials where, out of the nine total effect blocks you start with, people put their 'pre' effects in, then set a block to be the send, another block to be the return, then continue on with their "post" effects.  Whether or not you set those blocks to be assigned to foot switches, to me that says now you're immediately down to seven blocks you can use for effects (in other words, choosing to run 4CM now limits every preset to a max of seven usable effect blocks...)  Now, if you have a second amp and wanted to do 7CM, then you'd be down two more blocks for routing so you can only have a max of 5 effects?!?

 

I'm very much hoping that I have an incorrect understanding about the way to accomplish the routing, basically that there would be a different way to set the routing to use/bypass/etc the effects loops for 4CM that would not use up blocks out of the nine total.  (It's also entirely possible the tutorials I was watching were put out by idiots who didn't know what they were doing...........)

 

So, my overall questions is just: Can you route the effect blocks for 4CM WITHOUT using other effect blocks??  (Through menus/settings on a pedal by pedal basis?)

 

Thanks!!

[phil_m]

1 hour ago, jeremyburkett said:

I'm curious about this too.  (I'll be getting my HX effects in a couple of weeks and have been doing my homework on this so that I'm ready to be up and running as soon as it arrives!!)  

 

I understand what you're saying about not assigning the send or return to a footswitch, so that you don't give up a spot....but I'm still a little confused about whether or not I will have to "give up" a block overall.  I've seen tutorials where, out of the nine total effect blocks you start with, people put their 'pre' effects in, then set a block to be the send, another block to be the return, then continue on with their "post" effects.  Whether or not you set those blocks to be assigned to foot switches, to me that says now you're immediately down to seven blocks you can use for effects (in other words, choosing to run 4CM now limits every preset to a max of seven usable effect blocks...)  Now, if you have a second amp and wanted to do 7CM, then you'd be down two more blocks for routing so you can only have a max of 5 effects?!?

 

I'm very much hoping that I have an incorrect understanding about the way to accomplish the routing, basically that there would be a different way to set the routing to use/bypass/etc the effects loops for 4CM that would not use up blocks out of the nine total.  (It's also entirely possible the tutorials I was watching were put out by idiots who didn't know what they were doing...........)

 

So, my overall questions is just: Can you route the effect blocks for 4CM WITHOUT using other effect blocks??  (Through menus/settings on a pedal by pedal basis?)

 

Thanks!!

 

If you want to use the 4CM, one block will always need to be an FX Loop (there is no reason to use separate Send and Return blocks). If you want to use the 7CM, you would probably realistically need two FX Loop blocks (although, you might be able to get away with one stereo FX Loop block, depending on what you want to do). But how often do you actually use 7 effects simultaneously? The thing with the HX Effects is each preset is a custom configuration of effects blocks, so you don't have to have every block in every preset.

 

If you really feel you need more blocks, it might be worth looking at the Helix LT for a few hundred dollars more. On the LT, you can have up to 32 blocks, and you have twice the processing power as the HX.

[jeremyburkett]

Thanks phil_m, that makes sense!  I think I probably have just been a little too fixated on having access to the 'full power' of all the effects in the unit that I never stopped to really think about the practicality of actually using seven or more effects at one time.  Your suggestion of even using different presets is also great, if I need one particular instance of something weird like a tremolo/chorus/panner for one song, I can just make it a different preset, rather than trying to fit some of those "extra" things back into my main pedal setup.

 

Just to clarify one last thing, you mentioned having just the one block be an FX Loop (either loop 1 or 2, both send and return).  I'm guessing that's got to be the smart way to do it, and I'm only asking because the tutorial I watched specifically showed the guy setting one block to be only the send, then moved over, and set the next block to be only the return.......there's GOT to be a single block 'FX loop' in there....right??

 

Regardless, can't wait to get mine and thanks to everyone for the help and insights!!!    

[phil_m]

44 minutes ago, jeremyburkett said:

Just to clarify one last thing, you mentioned having just the one block be an FX Loop (either loop 1 or 2, both send and return).  I'm guessing that's got to be the smart way to do it, and I'm only asking because the tutorial I watched specifically showed the guy setting one block to be only the send, then moved over, and set the next block to be only the return.......there's GOT to be a single block 'FX loop' in there....right??

 

In the Send/Return block menu, there are four types of blocks you can choose from - Send, Return, mono FX Loop and stereo FX Loop. Like I said, I don't know why some people are using separate Send and Return block other than they may just be misunderstanding something. I sometimes wonder if they just didn't scroll down far enough in the menu to see the FX Loop blocks... Anyway, you just need one single FX Loop block.

[jeremyburkett]

Thanks man, I appreciate all the help!! 

[benbutterworth]

I want to run 7cm too and I'm struggling.

 

I want to run two amps together, Tube Screamer etc in front of both amps, then delays and reverbs in the amp loops. But I'm having big issues.

- I don't know how the signal chain should be configured to set up 7 cable method into the fx loops of two amps.

- Because the setup isn't correct, I currently I get a lot of noise as both amps are sending the preamp to the other amp! Basically both preamps are blended on each amp.

- How do I ensure delays and other effects are stereo - as in ping-pong delay etc.

[midgod07]

Hi all - 

Also a fairly new HX FX user and having similar problems - I've got a Marshall JCM2000. I've inserted an FX send/return block after my OD blocks as recommended for 4cm. What I'm noticing is that when I full bypass the FX, I can't "get back" to my amp's native sounds. The channel switch LED will change color, but the tone doesn't change at all - and it's not the amp's tone. It's this weird, loud honky tone that doesn't respond to changing Volume, Gain, etc. I have checked the Global Settings to ensure that my sends/returns are in "Line" mode, but I just don't see a way to bypass the FX and use just my amp's tone. I've also noticed that this is the same tone that happens when I select a blank "New Preset". Is there any possible way to use 4cm and still be able to retain my amp's native tone when I want it, or is it an either/or with 4cm? If so, there's really no sense in using any of the OD or Boosts because it would be relegated to the FX loop alone. Latest firmware, factory reset already done. Hope there's a solution to this. Thanks!