Simultaneous XLR / FR out to FOH and spkr sim ¼" out to amp?

[tekhed]

Former Line 6-er here. Pretty familiar wit the tech, but can't find a graceful solution for this;

 

-Guitar>Helix ¼" in

 

-XLR>FOH (with amp / cab sims)

 

AND (simultaneously)

 

-¼" out (with amp model but no cab sim)>power amp in (Fender Hot Rod Deluxe) for onstage amp volume. Just using power section of HRD.

 

Any way to do this without creating two (nearly) identical, parallel signal paths and wasting all that DSP? 

 

Many thanks!

 

 

[brue58ski]

You can "freeze" either the 1/4" or XLR. I freeze the XLR's which leaves the 1/4" to be controlled by the main vol knob. By the way, freezing an output equals having the vol knob turned completely up.

[dragonfet]

You can either insert an FX Send block before the speaker sim and use one of the 1/4" Sends and a DI Box, or you could create a L/R path split, place the speaker sim on the left channel, then use the left 1/4" for your amp and the right XLR out for the FoH.

[tekhed]

Great ideas. Thanks to both of you.

What I want to end up with is a steady ("frozen" seems like the right idea) out to FOH with full amp / spkr modeling, then an adjustable level out to the amp AND the ability to have the amp feed muted for acoustic guitar patches that I want to only go to FOH.

 

Based on what you're saying the setup for me might be:

Guitar in > Helix "front of amp" FX blocks > preamp FX block > time-based FX blocks > mono parallel fx send block (out to power amp in for on-stage amp) that can be muted > power amp / speaker block > XLR to FOH.

 

Sort of like a virtual version of an old 90's rack system.

 

Am I getting the idea?

[jws1982]

I actually avoid using the volume knobs on the helix if whatever I’m sending a signal to has its own volume control. Unless you can’t reach your guitar amp during the gig, I’d recommend using a send block for the amp output. Then, just put the cab block at the end of the chain, and the send block for the amp right before it. Or, should they need separate EQ, split the path right before the send block and place the cab and amp sends on different paths. The send block can then be muted with a footswitch.

[BigJayBrian]

You can either insert an FX Send block before the speaker sim and use one of the 1/4" Sends and a DI Box, or you could create a L/R path split, place the speaker sim on the left channel, then use the left 1/4" for your amp and the right XLR out for the FoH.

This.

Effects/amps > fx send block (to poweramp) > cab sim > xlr out (to PA)

 

Until the helix gets an update that let us put the outputs and inputs where we want them on the signal path (anyone knows if they have plan to do so?). I don't understand that they haven't implemented such a vital function for live playing. Right now the 1/4 out is basically wasted if you need to have the cab sim on the xlr only

[tekhed]

Great advice, all. Thank you very much.

 

Yes, it seems like (at least the option of) a "global cab sim" at the XLRs would be valuable to many people. Amps on stage / sims going to house. That's how I ran my old rack rig, built around a Marshall JMP-1. The cab-sim outs didn't even respond to the master volume knob on the front. That knob only controlled the non-cab-sim outs that went to my stage amp / speakers.

 

I understand this work-around diminishes some of the hard work Line 6 put into modeling the cabs, speakers, power section, sag, etc but FOH would still benefit and sound great. I don't need the same sound at the ¼" outs as I do the XLRs. At least not all the time.

 

Thanks again for the quick replies! Best to all.

[gunpointmetal]

What's the benefit of using a real amp on stage of you're going DI with cab sims into the PA? 

Why not grab a powered wedge, or use the stage monitoring?

[tekhed]

This is a tribute band, so some are concerned about the aesthetic and hence want "real amps on stage". Sad, but that's "show biz" I guess.  We're all on in-ears and have considered the "amp-less / monitor-less stage" approach. My problem with that is the disconnect that happens when someone gets close enough to the stage that they're not hearing the mains anyone then... Poof. Everything but the drums are gone. Side-fills would be solution there, but that's a reworking of our gear, rider, etc. Prob the right direction, but not going to happen immediately.  

 

So, perhaps one of the FRFR cabs that look like an older guitar cab are the final answer. Matrix FR212, etc.

[BigJayBrian]

What's the benefit of using a real amp on stage of you're going DI with cab sims into the PA?

Why not grab a powered wedge, or use the stage monitoring?

I guess many people like their guitar cab ("amp in the roomn feel) but still want the reliability of the RI to PA?

 

In my case it is mostly because I also have other guitar amps that I wouldn't be able to plug straight into a powered wedge

 

And a good powered wedge for my bass is way too expensive (apparently most can't deliver the power and big low end required)