MikeDV1 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Setup for this: Guitar>Helix>Mesa 2:90> 2 1x12 speakers. I had scrolled through the preamp only, but just noted they were softer and similar to the amp or amp + cab sound, so hadn't messed with them much. Tonight I went over to the just preamp list, adjusted volume so they were loud enough, and I'm really pleased with the results. I had been using a Triaxis in an in/out loop, and kept finding I like that better than any of the amp or amp/cab models. Sounds great, but my tiny brain had a fart - if I like the preamp only as a loop, why wouldn't I like one of the modeled amps preamp as well? Kind of a duh, moment - I had a power amp, I was using speakers, take the modeled ones out and check it out. So far, VERY pleased. Medium volume, will really see how they sound at band volume, or in a band situation. After watching one of the hundreds of videos, in the patch I auditioned each preamp, I had an LA compressor out front, and a simple EQ, with some treble cut, after the preamp. Just wondering if anyone else is doing this to their satisfaction? One thing I did notice - if one of you Line 6 guys read this - there is a marked volume difference between the preamp models - and this is comparing like channel and master volume settings. Don't remember exactly which ones, but a couple were actually faint, compared to some that were on the loud side. Anyhow, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberttheprole Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Yeah, they can be a good way to color your tone, I only use the amp models when recording, and play with helix through real amps in practice, and on stage. The preamps are definitely useful in that context. Instead of a distortion model, I'll through a preamp model in it's place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonandtice Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 One thing I did notice - if one of you Line 6 guys read this - there is a marked volume difference between the preamp models - and this is comparing like channel and master volume settings. Don't remember exactly which ones, but a couple were actually faint, compared to some that were on the loud side. I definitely notice the volume difference between the preamp and amp models. It is especially noticeable when I use my amp in 4CM and switch between the amp's preamp and the modeled preamp. I have to add like 12-18 dB of gain to the return block to compensate. It's so bad I just use an amp model instead of the preamp model. It's not a big deal since my amp is a Quilter 101 mini and the power section is Class D, so I probably need the power amp to be modeled anyways, unlike your case. P.S. It's almost like the preamp models are meant to go into a clean preamp, not straight to the power amp. Something is missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeDV1 Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 Pretty well documented the preamps are quieter than the amp models. My question to the Line 6 folks is that some of the preamp models themselves are very, very quiet compared to other preamp models as well - even when matching master or channel volume settings when available. Is something wrong, is it by design, or ? If someone insists on use them (maybe me) there are certainly ways to boost them to an acceptable volume (like the EQ block), but just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronlyon Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Yes, I'm using the preamp models lately, no cab model, and the 1/4" out from Helix goes to my amp's FX return (so I'm using it as a power amp only). I'm finding this works nicely with both tube amps and solid state also (Crate Power Block FX return). When turning the gain down and the volume up, this is really tricking my ear into hearing...and feeling!...like I'm playing the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigolsparky Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Pretty well documented the preamps are quieter than the amp models. My question to the Line 6 folks is that some of the preamp models themselves are very, very quiet compared to other preamp models as well - even when matching master or channel volume settings when available. Is something wrong, is it by design, or ? If someone insists on use them (maybe me) there are certainly ways to boost them to an acceptable volume (like the EQ block), but just wondering. I have pointed this out in a previous thread and it didn't get any attention from Line 6. One of the preamp models that is very quiet by comparison is the /13 preamp. In order to get parity with other models you would have to adjust the volume down considerably on those while maxing out the volume on the /13 model. Since this is not the way most people use the Helix, it must not get much consideration. I too consider this a flaw and think it should be corrected. Amp models and amp/cab models do not behave this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ric1966 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Loving the Lonestar preamp model into my Mesa 2:Fifty rack tube power amp with two 1x12 Mesa Theile cabs via 1/4†outs! The preset I use for that rig also has a Lonestar full amp block with Celestion IR on the bottom path that goes to my JBL EON 612 FRFR monitor via XLR out. If I really want a wall of sound, I also connect my Marshall Woburn speaker to the headphone jack, mapped in global settings to the XLR outs. Best of both worlds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe5 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 I had the same experience with the Helix preamp model levels widely varying from preamp to preamp. I too played with Helix pre's with a Mesa 2:90 and Recto 212 for a while. I even used an RJM Amp Gizmo to switch Deep, Half Drive, and Modern on the 2:90. I liked Modern the best for most Helix pre's. But I found the 2:90 had way too much character that was diminishing the difference between Helix preamps. I even bought a used Line 6 DT50 thinking that would be better. That rig was just harsh and noisy to me. IMO, the preamp models were frustrating to tweak and level out on both the 2:90 and DT50, and there was just too much lost from the Helix full amp models. I moved back to Helix full amp models + neutral/flat tube power amp + 212 cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonandtice Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 I had the same experience with the Helix preamp model levels widely varying from preamp to preamp. I too played with Helix pre's with a Mesa 2:90 and Recto 212 for a while. I even used an RJM Amp Gizmo to switch Deep, Half Drive, and Modern on the 2:90. I liked Modern the best for most Helix pre's. But I found the 2:90 had way too much character that was diminishing the difference between Helix preamps. I even bought a used Line 6 DT50 thinking that would be better. That rig was just harsh and noisy to me. IMO, the preamp models were frustrating to tweak and level out on both the 2:90 and DT50, and there was just too much lost from the Helix full amp models. I moved back to Helix full amp models + neutral/flat tube power amp + 212 cab. Just curious, which neutral/flat tube power amp did you end up with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe5 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Just curious, which neutral/flat tube power amp did you end up with? I wanted to get a Fryette Power Station PS-2 for $699, but came a across a cheap, $150 used Line 6 Spider Valve HD100 MKII an gave it a go to just test the neutral tube concept before dropping more $ on a Fryette. I liked the SV HD100 so much with Helix, I bought a used 50W combo Spider Valve 112 MKII for $250 to have a grab-n-go amp. I would still like to try a Fryette PS-2 one day to compare, but cant justify the $ when I'm happy with my current SV's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirtualGuitars Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 I only use the preamp blocks when I want to use the power section of my tube amp, but with the modeled preamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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