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victorcastro1

Are the default values for the deep amp parameters the closest to the real amps being modeled?

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So, as we don't really have access to those controls in the real amps, I'm curious if the default values are the closest possible and, if not, how we should set them to get there. Thanks. 

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The arbitrary default value of any one parameter is really not what matters. But the sound that comes out does...if you're content with that, then you're done. Either way,  there's no guarantee that matching the theoretical value of a model's real world counterpart for any given parameter, will get you any closer to the tone you're looking for. 

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What I want is to have less options when setting the amp. Setting the deep parameters to closest match the real amps seems reasonable. 

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I'm wondering if the OP meant the deep parameters, which always seem to be set to 5 out of 10, like Sag, and Bias, etc..

But to Cruisin's point, What do you mean OP?

There are many threads on how to map an amp's controls to the controls Line 6 represents in their models.  The controls line 6 gives should correspond to their counterparts on the real amps.  Unfortunately, Line 6 had to make a choice, given that amps all have different names for their controls, even for different years of the same amps, they had to choose between copying the names from the amp, or choosing a sort of consistent naming convention between all amps.  They've tried to match the names where they could, but sometimes they don't for the sake of interface consistency.  They've also given us controls that some of the real amps don't have.  For the most part, though, just about all the amps have most if not all the same controls as their real counterparts.

So typically

"Master" would be the Power amp volume control.  Not all amps have this.  For those that don't, Master should be set to 10
"Drive" corresponds to the pre-amp volume control on most amps, many times the only volume control on the amp (those without a Master Volume).
"Volume" is a Line 6 gain control to help you balance the volume of the amps across multiple patches, and does not color the tone.  Master and Drive do color the tone just like those controls do on the real amps.
After that, you're on your own from amp to amp.

So to answer your question, when you purchase a real amp, are the knob settings the closest possible?

As far as how to set them up, it's highly recommended that you download the manual for the amp in question, and go to YouTube and find videos that show how different people like to set up their amps.

Definitely check out HelixHelp.com

Also go to TheGearPage forums and search for @benadrian's posts as well as @SHWang_Guitars, and of course Digital Igloo and Frank Ritchotte and Design Guy

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1 minute ago, FlyingsCool said:

I'm wondering if the OP meant the deep parameters

It's what's written in the title, isn't it?

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This goes to the question of why people buy a Helix. When I plug into a real amp, I tweak the front panel tone stack to taste, done. There are no DEEP parameters to mess with. Over time, I might try rolling tubes or swapping speakers/cabs, but the amp is what it is.

Helix, of course, is reproducing a sound that reflects a mic'd amp, so regardless of the real world amp-in-the-room considerations, a user ALWAYS has to deal with that.

Add that no two "identical" tube amps are going to sound exactly alike, and even if they did the sound would vary with the room acoustics, temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, ear wax build-up......

Bottom line, Helix is NOT a real amp. There's no way that the engineers could possibly design it to sound like a real amp-in-the-room. If you're using it as a real amp-in-the-room (or even as a recording tool), they've provided the deep parameters so that a user can tweak it to sound as close to what the user THINKS that real amp in the room the user is in at the time SHOULD sound like.

I watched an interesting Anderton's video last night in which a blind-folded Rob Chapman was asked to rate, on a scale of 1 to 10, six $1000+ amps, all played thru the same Marshall cab. Being Chappers, he felt compelled to try to also identify the amps. He managed to correctly guess ONE, the Victory amp (surprise surprise, he liked it best), and he couldn't tell the difference between the REAL Victory and the Kemper profile!

Could be the answer for anyone who wants the real amp-in-the-room experience is the Kemper (and a separate cab for each favorite profile), not the Helix?

Me, I ain't got that kind of bread, so a tweaking I will go! If it sounds good, it is good!

 

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1 hour ago, victorcastro1 said:

It's what's written in the title, isn't it?

So, sorry, didn't finish my answer.... Deep parameters, They are what they are.  Just like if you put a tube in an amp, it's going to have a certain amount of sag.  So, unfortunately, if you are looking for a particular tone, and not getting it, you'll have to try out different Deep parameters till you're closer to what you want.  That's why they are there, no two amps are the same, and these parameters have something to do with that.  So there is no "real" value.  It all depends.  But you might as well start with the defaults.  And if you're happy, you're happy.

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I don't know the answer. But, just looking at several amps, since, so far, every deep parameter is on 5.0 except the bias, I would guess that they are set to the amp that they modeled. I say that since even the same amp from the same manufacturer, often is slightly different. I always thought the idea of the deep parameters is the ability to "custom shop" your amp from where it normally is. In the real world this would require opening up the amp and possibly replacing electrical components. It just wouldn't make sense for them to "customize" the amp for you. They do this with the Master parameter. If an amp doesn't have a master volume knob, like the Marshall Plexi, they have the Master parameter set at 100. This gives you an option of lowering that which, in the real world, doesn't exist. Even if it's not, whaddaya gonna do? But I would definitely approach it as if they are accurate where they're at.

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As far as I remember, even the bias should be set to 5. The current deep editing parameters are for the ideal sound of the amp. The best is to put all to 5, except master, that as brueski said, should be at 100 to the amps that don't have it. And to the amps that have it, should be put at your wish.

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3 hours ago, FlyingsCool said:

So, unfortunately, if you are looking for a particular tone, and not getting it

I want the closest tone possible to the amps that were modeled. Unfortunately I can't know that for myself, that's why I'm asking. I get some like all the parameters in the world, I'm the other way around, they really distract me. Knowing the closest value to the real amps would give me some peace of mind. 

3 hours ago, brue58ski said:

I don't know the answer... I would definitely approach it as if they are accurate where they're at.

Thanks. I imagine you're probably right, but without a confirmation there's always a voice in my head "it's not close enough" and it's hard to stop tweaking lol.  

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14 hours ago, victorcastro1 said:

I want the closest tone possible to the amps that were modeled. Unfortunately I can't know that for myself, that's why I'm asking. I get some like all the parameters in the world, I'm the other way around, they really distract me. Knowing the closest value to the real amps would give me some peace of mind. 

Thanks. I imagine you're probably right, but without a confirmation there's always a voice in my head "it's not close enough" and it's hard to stop tweaking lol.  

Well....this is why you have those things hanging off the side of your head called "ears"...they don't work on numbers, they work on sound vibrations.  When it sounds right...you're done.

 

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5 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

Well....this is why you have those things hanging off the side of your head called "ears"...they don't work on numbers, they work on sound vibrations.  When it sounds right...you're done.

 

^^^^

This

 

Trust your ears, stop tweaking and worrying about numbers, and allow yourself some peace of mind.

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My ears are not trustworthy. Somedays I like stuff, next day I hate it. I just want to make it easier for me. Also, can I say I'm just a bit curious? It's cool you guys trust your gut so much, I don't. I just want this information, it seems pretty straight forward. 

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23 hours ago, brue58ski said:

I don't know the answer. But, just looking at several amps, since, so far, every deep parameter is on 5.0 except the bias, I would guess that they are set to the amp that they modeled. I say that since even the same amp from the same manufacturer, often is slightly different. I always thought the idea of the deep parameters is the ability to "custom shop" your amp from where it normally is. In the real world this would require opening up the amp and possibly replacing electrical components. It just wouldn't make sense for them to "customize" the amp for you. They do this with the Master parameter. If an amp doesn't have a master volume knob, like the Marshall Plexi, they have the Master parameter set at 100. This gives you an option of lowering that which, in the real world, doesn't exist. Even if it's not, whaddaya gonna do? But I would definitely approach it as if they are accurate where they're at.

I think that what we're all trying to say is that it IS straight-forward. If it sounds good, it IS good. If it doesn't, HELIX gives you the OPTION of tweaking things that you don't even have access to with a REAL amp.

If you're looking for a definitive answer from Line6 about the defaults, forget it, ain't gonna happen.

As to tweaking for hours to get a good sound on Monday that sounds awful on Tuesday, I blame barometric pressure differences and the alignment of the planets....

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Actually, my *guess* is that yes, the default settings for the deep controls, which aren't always 5/10, reflect each actual amp, or maybe a version of it that the Line 6 amp designer dug. At the very least, they're a reasonable starting point of you want to ignore them.

OTOH, maybe a fairly decked-out modeler like Helix isn't where you want the be if you actively dislike options. No shame in that at all.

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It's not uncommon at all in my experience to find fault with a preset from day to day while you're working on it.  Mostly it's the well documented problem known as ear fatigue.  You're ears are most fresh when you first start working on things and make adjustments over long periods of time where certain frequencies aren't heard as well.  You tend to understand this and incorporate it into your technique when developing a patch.

For example, just this week I specifically worked on three different presets I've used for quite some time feeling that I could make them better given some of the things I've learned recently.  I made MAJOR renovations in them at the beginning of the week, then tweaked on them a little bit each day as the week went on while I was practicing.  By Wednesday or Thursday I was doing less and less to them, and haven't really changed anything over the last two days.  Mostly they were minor things like reduce drive and increase channel volume or selectively chop a bit on certain frequencies.  But the changes I made on Tuesday were more significant than the ones I made on Wednesday and Thursday.

This is pretty much the same process when I do recording and mixing.  I tweak on it a little bit each day when my ears are fresh and within a few days I'm pretty happy with it.  It's not the equipment, it's just the human condition.

As far as deep parameters, my understanding is those are things that aren't directly controllable in the electronics of the amp and are more influenced by things like the deterioration of the power supply or tubes over time, or even the changing to different types or brands of tubes.  So as far as the 5/10 I suspect it probably represents an generally perfect operating environment which we can age a bit with tweaking.  At least that's the way I've always thought about it.

 

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On 3/16/2018 at 6:22 PM, victorcastro1 said:

I want the closest tone possible to the amps that were modeled. Unfortunately I can't know that for myself, that's why I'm asking. I get some like all the parameters in the world, I'm the other way around, they really distract me. Knowing the closest value to the real amps would give me some peace of mind. 

If, by your own admission, you don't know what the "real" amps are supposed to sound like, then the peace of mind you're looking for will remain forever elusive, because you'll never actually know if you've achieved it anyway.

Stop worrying about where any one parameter should be... there is no magic formula with this stuff. When it sounds good to your ears, that's where it "should" be.

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4 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

If, by your own admission, you don't know what the "real" amps are supposed to sound like, then the peace of mind you're looking for will remain forever elusive, because you'll never actually know if you've achieved it anyway.

Stop worrying about where any one parameter should be... there is no magic formula with this stuff. When it sounds good to your ears, that's where it "should" be.

It's a sober decision to at least start tweaking with the amp "stock". Imagine altering the deep parameters are like "modding" the amp, I don't think it's a good idea to start tweaking there. Sure, I could assume the values correspond to the real amps, I'm just trying here to know for sure.  I don't get why that's so hard to understand. Also, can I say I'm just a bit curious?

 

On 3/17/2018 at 3:16 PM, rd2rk said:

If you're looking for a definitive answer from Line6 about the defaults, forget it, ain't gonna happen.

Why not? I can't see any reason they would make it a secret. 

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On 3/17/2018 at 12:16 PM, rd2rk said:

If you're looking for a definitive answer from Line6 about the defaults, forget it, ain't gonna happen.

1 hour ago, victorcastro1 said:

Why not? I can't see any reason they would make it a secret. 

 

The ways of the Dark Lords are mysterious, to be sure.

But it is said: , Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.

The choice is yours: to go (tweak) or wait!

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2 hours ago, victorcastro1 said:

It's a sober decision to at least start tweaking with the amp "stock". Imagine altering the deep parameters are like "modding" the amp, I don't think it's a good idea to start tweaking there. Sure, I could assume the values correspond to the real amps, I'm just trying here to know for sure.  I don't get why that's so hard to understand. Also, can I say I'm just a bit curious?

 

Why not? I can't see any reason they would make it a secret. 

It's not much of a stretch to assume the settings in deep parameters ARE normal.  Deviations from the default settings by definition create "abnormal" responses in the amp's behaviors such as initial micro drops in voltage in response to higher initial inputs (SAG), and so forth.  It's not so much a secret as it is obvious what the affect and not worth spending more than a second or two considering whether or not adjusting them will address a specific characteristic in the behavior you need to change in a given preset.  Those changes are all relatively subtle and in over two years and almost 100 presets I've only felt the need to mess with them a handful of times.  So I don't think you're going to be held back in any way moving forward and using them whenever necessary.

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3 hours ago, victorcastro1 said:

It's a sober decision to at least start tweaking with the amp "stock". Imagine altering the deep parameters are like "modding" the amp, I don't think it's a good idea to start tweaking there. Sure, I could assume the values correspond to the real amps, I'm just trying here to know for sure.  I don't get why that's so hard to understand.  

I understand you just fine...my point is that you continue to harp on finding obscure info that will not help you in the long run. You said you want fewer things to tweak... so if you don't want to mess with those parameters, don't. It's not required...pretend it's a "real" amp,  where the bias is not only an unknown, but a fixed entity which can't be manipulated anyway. In the end, it either sounds good, or it doesn't. And if you ARE satisfied having created tones that you like, then who cares where the bias (or anything else for that matter) is set?  If you found out tomorrow that the default values in question were all wildly inaccurate compared to their real world counterparts, are you gonna go change them all, screwing up tones that you were otherwise happy with? Why...to claim "authenticity"? You're making things harder than they need to be.

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Cool, I agree with both of you. In the end it doesn't matter where the controls are at. Great... I still want to know. I don't get why you come to a thread asking for information you don't have and don't seem to want and start lecturing me on why I shouldn't want it too. Not really complaining, you are free to post whatever, I know you want to help somehow, but think about it, If you really don't want to know, maybe you should stop reading the thread because maybe, just maybe, someone might have the answer. If in the end you do want to know, stick around, support and maybe learn something you didn't know before. 

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I would say if you haven't heard from a Line 6 "official" by now, you won't be. I'm 97.284367493% sure they are the "normal" parameters for that amp.

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You've now heard from many of the most active members of this forum, who mostly agree that:

1) We don't KNOW/don't much CARE, because

2) We think that the defaults are what L6 considers the norm, and

3) No one from L6 is likely to answer your question on this forum

Here's an idea - maybe you're asking in the wrong place? Why don't you open a support ticket and ASSERT YOUR RIGHT TO KNOW!

I, for one, would LOVE to see how THAT turns out.....

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22 hours ago, brue58ski said:

I would say if you haven't heard from a Line 6 "official" by now, you won't be. I'm 97.284367493% sure they are the "normal" parameters for that amp.

I'm ok assuming it, I just think it would be good to know for sure. 

20 hours ago, rd2rk said:

You've now heard from many of the most active members of this forum, who mostly agree that:

1) We don't KNOW/don't much CARE, because

2) We think that the defaults are what L6 considers the norm, and

3) No one from L6 is likely to answer your question on this forum

Here's an idea - maybe you're asking in the wrong place? Why don't you open a support ticket and ASSERT YOUR RIGHT TO KNOW!

I, for one, would LOVE to see how THAT turns out.....

Maybe they are the most active because they will post on a thread even if they, as you said, don't know and don't care for the question being asked. 

I don't think I have the right to know, but I very much would like to. If you try that, please share. 

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My understanding is that they work with an outside consultant to set the default model values, and from what I can tell, that involves the DEP values. It doesn't look most of them stray that far from 5.0 though. I think it's a relatively safe assumption that 5.0 is the actual value of the amp they modeled. Things like tube bias, though, aren't like a hardwired thing. It's possible that some of the amps in their collection have been biased to values that are slightly different than the factory values. For some vintage amps, "factory values" might not even be a thing.

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On 3/21/2018 at 12:07 PM, phil_m said:

My understanding is that they work with an outside consultant to set the default model values, and from what I can tell, that involves the DEP values. It doesn't look most of them stray that far from 5.0 though. I think it's a relatively safe assumption that 5.0 is the actual value of the amp they modeled. Things like tube bias, though, aren't like a hardwired thing. It's possible that some of the amps in their collection have been biased to values that are slightly different than the factory values. For some vintage amps, "factory values" might not even be a thing.

That's interesting, so it would not be crazy to imagine the default values for the deep parameters maybe are not the same as the amps modeled. 

There is actually a technically optimum value for the bias - if that will sound the best is a whole other thing, that's totally subjective. My point is that I think it's in the user's best interest if the amp (model) came stock with the correct bias. 

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Sorry, but Line 6 is not going to 'officially' answer your question here. I understand that you'd like to see a definitive answer from Line 6, and I'm not saying you shouldn't have it. I'm just saying you're not going to get it here. You'd be better off to open a support ticket and ask for that info directly.

 

Also, as phil_m explained there is no hard-wired 'correct' bias. Every physical amp has its own bias. It's quite reasonable to assume (although you don't seem to want to) that the default DEP parameters for every amp model are those that most accurately reflect the physical amp being modeled. I expect they keep tuning the model until, for instance, a Bias value of 5 along with the other related DEP parameters at a value of 5, or 10 or whatever, makes the amp model sound as close as possible to the physical amp. Am I 100% certain about that? No. But why would they do something different?

 

I know you think that you can somehow make things 'better' (despite what your ears tell you) if only you knew what the 'technically optimum values' are, but what we are all trying to tell you is that it's a futile chase. Even if you do manage to get some magic values from Line 6, your ears may tell you something different - because your ears and brain are different from anyone else's. Are you then going to stick with the so-called optimum values or go with what sounds better to you? If the latter, why not start with the default values and experiment until you find the values that work best for you, and forget about whether or not they match some hypothetical optimum values?

 

Again, I'm not trying to say that Line 6 shouldn't give you an answer. But I am saying that you won't hear it here, and it's likely not useful anyway except perhaps to satisfy your obvious curiosity.

 

Good luck in your ongoing quest.

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18 minutes ago, silverhead said:

Good luck in your ongoing quest.

 

Indeed...even if it has you walking in circles. Some quests are like that...;)

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3 hours ago, silverhead said:

Sorry, but Line 6 is not going to 'officially' answer your question here. I understand that you'd like to see a definitive answer from Line 6, and I'm not saying you shouldn't have it. I'm just saying you're not going to get it here. You'd be better off to open a support ticket and ask for that info directly.

 

Also, as phil_m explained there is no hard-wired 'correct' bias. Every physical amp has its own bias. It's quite reasonable to assume (although you don't seem to want to) that the default DEP parameters for every amp model are those that most accurately reflect the physical amp being modeled. I expect they keep tuning the model until, for instance, a Bias value of 5 along with the other related DEP parameters at a value of 5, or 10 or whatever, makes the amp model sound as close as possible to the physical amp. Am I 100% certain about that? No. But why would they do something different?

 

I know you think that you can somehow make things 'better' (despite what your ears tell you) if only you knew what the 'technically optimum values' are, but what we are all trying to tell you is that it's a futile chase. Even if you do manage to get some magic values from Line 6, your ears may tell you something different - because your ears and brain are different from anyone else's. Are you then going to stick with the so-called optimum values or go with what sounds better to you? If the latter, why not start with the default values and experiment until you find the values that work best for you, and forget about whether or not they match some hypothetical optimum values?

 

Again, I'm not trying to say that Line 6 shouldn't give you an answer. But I am saying that you won't hear it here, and it's likely not useful anyway except perhaps to satisfy your obvious curiosity.

 

Good luck in your ongoing quest.

 

The input impedance of a fuzz pedal is close to 10k, , Helix will not always set to that value on its own. I am crazy to think it's a good idea to start at 10k and go from there? No, I'm not saying you have to like it better when it's set to 10k, and just saying that's useful information to have. Yeah, sure, you could tweak it blindly until you got something you liked, but having said information made it a lot easier. 

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A support ticket is your best bet to get that information. If you get the info you want please come back and let us know.

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15 hours ago, victorcastro1 said:

 

The input impedance of a fuzz pedal is close to 10k, , Helix will not always set to that value on its own. I am crazy to think it's a good idea to start at 10k and go from there? No, I'm not saying you have to like it better when it's set to 10k, and just saying that's useful information to have. Yeah, sure, you could tweak it blindly until you got something you liked, but having said information made it a lot easier. 

 

That's all well and good... but it doesn't change the fact that you continue to make your case in the wrong place. Repeatedly calling Chevy to complain about your BMW's engine trouble, is an exercise in futility. Nobody here can help you. The ones who may be able to help, should they decide to divulge the info you seek, are elsewhere.

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On 3/21/2018 at 8:22 AM, victorcastro1 said:

Maybe they are the most active because they will post on a thread even if they, as you said, don't know and don't care for the question being asked. 

 

 

Not to mention that you've insulted everybody that's TRIED to help you....

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3 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

 

Not to mention that you've insulted everybody that's TRIED to help you....


Well, you were the one who said nobody knew the answer and didn't care for it.

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1 hour ago, victorcastro1 said:


Well, you were the one who said nobody knew the answer and didn't care for it.

 

If no one had responded at all, would that have made you happier than hearing a truth (no one KNOWS) that has now been repeated to you multiple times by multiple people. Or would you have thought that we were unresponsive, unfriendly, uncaring and mean? That we didn't care ABOUT THE DETAILS doesn't mean that we didn't care FOR your question. YOU inferred that.

 

No one KNOWS. BUT...somebody famous once said that "it's better to know than to not know" (Spenser?). So maybe you're right!

 

Why don't you open a support ticket, then come back and share the results.

 

Then we'll all KNOW, even if we DON'T care....

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On 3/22/2018 at 4:03 PM, victorcastro1 said:

That's interesting, so it would not be crazy to imagine the default values for the deep parameters maybe are not the same as the amps modeled. 

There is actually a technically optimum value for the bias - if that will sound the best is a whole other thing, that's totally subjective. My point is that I think it's in the user's best interest if the amp (model) came stock with the correct bias. 

 

Regarding bias, there really isn't a single value that's optimum, but rather a target range for whatever power tubes it's using. The tolerances of power tubes aren't anything like modern electrical components. They vary a lot even from tubes labeled the same from the same manufacturer. That's why you see tubes sold as "matched pairs". The manufacturer attempts to bin the ones that are performing similarly together. But even then, the bias in an amp can drift. There are some amps where you can't actually adjust the bias apart from modding them.

 

Basically, tube amps aren't static systems. They're always changing. Now, I guess we could say that whenever they model it, they're kind of creating a model of that amp at the moment when it was modeled, so there are discrete, measurable values for these parameters. As to whether those are truly optimum, who knows? That's why the give you a range to play with...

 

I mean, I understand the spirit of the question. I just think that it's one of those things that's not worth worrying about.

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50 minutes ago, phil_m said:

 

Regarding bias, there really isn't a single value that's optimum, but rather a target range for whatever power tubes it's using. The tolerances of power tubes aren't anything like modern electrical components. They vary a lot even from tubes labeled the same from the same manufacturer. That's why you see tubes sold as "matched pairs". The manufacturer attempts to bin the ones that are performing similarly together. But even then, the bias in an amp can drift. There are some amps where you can't actually adjust the bias apart from modding them.

 

Basically, tube amps aren't static systems. They're always changing. Now, I guess we could say that whenever they model it, they're kind of creating a model of that amp at the moment when it was modeled, so there are discrete, measurable values for these parameters. As to whether those are truly optimum, who knows? That's why the give you a range to play with...

 

I mean, I understand the spirit of the question. I just think that it's one of those things that's not worth worrying about.

 

Amen... and for a guy who's said more than once that he wants fewer parameters to tweak, he's doing an awfully good job of doing the exact opposite. Leaving things alone is the simplest thing in the world to accomplish. 

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5 hours ago, phil_m said:

 

Regarding bias, there really isn't a single value that's optimum, but rather a target range for whatever power tubes it's using. The tolerances of power tubes aren't anything like modern electrical components. They vary a lot even from tubes labeled the same from the same manufacturer. That's why you see tubes sold as "matched pairs". The manufacturer attempts to bin the ones that are performing similarly together. But even then, the bias in an amp can drift. There are some amps where you can't actually adjust the bias apart from modding them.

 

Basically, tube amps aren't static systems. They're always changing. Now, I guess we could say that whenever they model it, they're kind of creating a model of that amp at the moment when it was modeled, so there are discrete, measurable values for these parameters. As to whether those are truly optimum, who knows? That's why the give you a range to play with...

 

I mean, I understand the spirit of the question. I just think that it's one of those things that's not worth worrying about.

 

There are no such issues inside a modeler. In theory there would be a perfect value for the bias with zero crossover distortion, which would be possible in a modeler. Maybe they programmed all the inconsistencies you describe on Helix, I don't know, but I doubt it.  

 

4 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

Amen... and for a guy who's said more than once that he wants fewer parameters to tweak, he's doing an awfully good job of doing the exact opposite. Leaving things alone is the simplest thing in the world to accomplish. 

 

The lack of curiosity among most of you really puzzles me, really. 

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20 minutes ago, victorcastro1 said:

 

There are no such issues inside a modeler. In theory there would be a perfect value for the bias with zero crossover distortion, which would be possible in a modeler. Maybe they programmed all the inconsistencies you describe on Helix, I don't know, but I doubt it.  

 

 

The lack of curiosity among most of you really puzzles me, really. 

 

Here's what I'M curious about....HAVE YOU OPENED A SUPPORT TICKET?

 

Or are you just another TROLL, who'll continue to hang around jerking our chains and insulting us until we stop responding?

 

HAVE YOU OPENED A SUPPORT TICKET?

 

If so, since you refuse to believe anything anybody here says,  PLEASE refrain from posting again until you get an answer FROM SUPPORT!

 

Curious people want to know, and YOU ARE THE EMISSARY!

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